Copley Square Revamp | Back Bay

They had a farmers market going on the plaza today, and I think that's why they focused on getting the hardscaped stuff done first. It certainly feels incomplete right now and I'm more than willing to wait until it's fully done before passing final judgement.
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chrisbrat said:
My main question about said-hardscape is: why go with such a bleak, grey palette? The previous warm, red-brown brick hardscape played much more nicely with both Trinity and with Back Bay overall.
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My gut reaction is that this project demonstrates how a kind of nihilistic and hopeless ugliness seems to have pervaded much of today's architecture. I blame the influence of the mundane and minimalist high tech look, as displayed in the bleak grey hardscape used in this project. Also, I think the general malaise and depression of society as a whole has interjected itself into new architecture to an extent. Fortunately, there are still a lot of inspirational, classy, and beautiful designs going up in the Kendall Square.area and Boston.locations.
 
I will opine that a significant and major reason it looks so much greyer is the function of the raised grove's decking surrounding the base of the trees - previously, those existing mature trees were surrounded by grass / greenery at their bases. Unfortunately, apparently heavy usage compacted the soils around the roots enough that it was threatening the tree's health, so the solution was the raised grove's decking.
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That allows the soil & therefore root systems to be healthier and keep the trees alive, but because it's now a elevated concrete plank deck instead of natural dirt & grass it is visually grey, even if the soil underneath is happier. Perhaps the city could have chosen a more natural color palette (which yes was inspired from BPL) but it'll probably age well. I'm still going to reserve judgment until the full thing grows in - those young trees will need time.
 
Presumably over its 188 years of use, the Public Garden has similar issues with heavy wear on soil compacting. I can't wait to see the precast concrete paneling and decking they'll use there to protect the willows and provide more hardscape for events setup so these useless parks finally get activated.
 
MjolnirMan said:
Presumably over its 188 years of use, the Public Garden has similar issues with heavy wear on soil compacting. I can't wait to see the precast concrete paneling and decking they'll use there to protect the willows and provide more hardscape for events setup so these useless parks finally get activated.
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Funny -- I don't think I have ever seen a big event hosted in the Public Garden. On the Common, yes (where they have to close lawn areas on a regular basis to allow rejuvenation from the over use). In the Public Garden there are even signs to encourage people to stay on the paved paths.

But Copley Square has been regularly programmed for big events throughout the year.
 
Charlie_mta said:
My gut reaction is that this project demonstrates how a kind of nihilistic and hopeless ugliness seems to have pervaded much of today's architecture. I blame the influence of the mundane and minimalist high tech look, as displayed in the bleak grey hardscape used in this project. Also, I think the general malaise and depression of society as a whole has interjected itself into new architecture to an extent. Fortunately, there are still a lot of inspirational, classy, and beautiful designs going up in the Kendall Square.area and Boston.locations.
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I just don’t understand the recent war on grassy spaces. Is grass that hard to maintain? Post Office Square always looks great. I get that occasionally they have events, and hardscape is better for that, but 95 percent of the time, it’s just a person chilling with a sandwich on their lunch break. And it’s nice to have a grassy space to do that instead of some soulless expanse of concrete.
 
Smuttynose said:
I just don’t understand the recent war on grassy spaces. Is grass that hard to maintain? Post Office Square always looks great. I get that occasionally they have events, and hardscape is better for that, but 95 percent of the time, it’s just a person chilling with a sandwich on their lunch break. And it’s nice to have a grassy space to do that instead of some soulless expanse of concrete.
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Establishing more permeable surfaces in urban locations, as well as the need to reduce urban heat islands were, I thought, goals that would be promoted by a city. Apparently not in this project where, as you say, the war on green spaces has prevailed.
 
Smuttynose said:
I just don’t understand the recent war on grassy spaces. Is grass that hard to maintain? Post Office Square always looks great. I get that occasionally they have events, and hardscape is better for that, but 95 percent of the time, it’s just a person chilling with a sandwich on their lunch break. And it’s nice to have a grassy space to do that instead of some soulless expanse of concrete.
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It is not really occasional events. There are events there multiple times per week. The farmers market for example, is there twice a week, and one of the goals was to get that moved from the sidewalk periphery to the Dartmouth Street hardscape, so it doesn't block the busy bus stop on St. James. There are also other events there throughout the year, so event usage is heavy not trivial.

The Dartmouth Street hardscape also makes the case for closing Dartmouth Street for larger events that span over to the Public Library.

Your grassy lawn is coming back -- just over by Trinity Church.
 
Smuttynose said:
I just don’t understand the recent war on grassy spaces. Is grass that hard to maintain? Post Office Square always looks great. I get that occasionally they have events, and hardscape is better for that, but 95 percent of the time, it’s just a person chilling with a sandwich on their lunch break. And it’s nice to have a grassy space to do that instead of some soulless expanse of concrete.
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Hate to say it but it's the dog people doing the most damage here at many of the urban parks. I've been tempted to start a photocollage of selfish dog people standing next to NO PET signs while their dogs do their business on protected lawns. It's wild how selfish some of these people are, often ruining lawns when there are dog parks nearby. Somehow there needs to be enforcement of social norms.
 
Justbuildit said:
Hate to say it but it's the dog people doing the most damage here at many of the urban parks. I've been tempted to start a photocollage of selfish dog people standing next to NO PET signs while their dogs do their business on protected lawns. It's wild how selfish some of these people are, often ruining lawns when there are dog parks nearby. Somehow there needs to be enforcement of social norms.
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Entitled dog owners are out of control. There is so much dog crap all over sidewalks and parks. Even in playgrounds. And then there are the friendless losers who bring their animals into grocery stores. It’s disgusting.
 
Kinopio said:
Entitled dog owners are out of control. There is so much dog crap all over sidewalks and parks. Even in playgrounds. And then there are the friendless losers who bring their animals into grocery stores. It’s disgusting.
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Lol this hits home so hard. The other day I was walking home from jfk station and as I come out the back side of the station onto sydney street I’m walking down the sidewalk and my foot slips like I stepped on a banana peel and I almost completely bust my ass. I look down at what it was and there was a long streak from slipping on a big dog turd that was just plopped right in the middle of the sidewalk. Someone had let their dog go to the bathroom right in the middle of the sidewalk and then just kept it movin. I was just like… really? Some ppl just dgaf, its pretty ridiculous.
 
Kinopio said:
Entitled dog owners are out of control. There is so much dog crap all over sidewalks and parks. Even in playgrounds. And then there are the friendless losers who bring their animals into grocery stores. It’s disgusting.
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Not to derail further, but I'm seeing more in restaurants too... without any indication they're a service animal.
 
stefal said:
Not to derail further, but I'm seeing more in restaurants too... without any indication they're a service animal.
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To derail further, I would become a single-issue voter if a mayoral candidate laid out a serious platform to tackle the dog problem. They are a net negative for the city and a big quality of life issue imo.
 
Charlie_mta said:
My gut reaction is that this project demonstrates how a kind of nihilistic and hopeless ugliness seems to have pervaded much of today's architecture. I blame the influence of the mundane and minimalist high tech look, as displayed in the bleak grey hardscape used in this project. Also, I think the general malaise and depression of society as a whole has interjected itself into new architecture to an extent. Fortunately, there are still a lot of inspirational, classy, and beautiful designs going up in the Kendall Square.area and Boston.locations.
Click to expand...
This is a very interesting observation and I think you're dead on. The only association I made to the grey is that it's very much in line with the ghastly grey tones that pervade any staged new condo showing. What I still don't get, though, is why the city would allow something that directly clashes with the warmer tones of BPL, the Copley, and Trinity. This is not some Ikea condo photoshoot, and for such a prominent place, Im genuinely surprised. Even with the low bar Boston sets they tend toward the traditional when it comes to design, in fact their weakness is usually they take it too far, to the point of parochialism.
Stlin said:
I will opine that a significant and major reason it looks so much greyer is the function of the raised grove's decking surrounding the base of the trees - previously, those existing mature trees were surrounded by grass / greenery at their bases. Unfortunately, apparently heavy usage compacted the soils around the roots enough that it was threatening the tree's health, so the solution was the raised grove's decking.
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That allows the soil & therefore root systems to be healthier and keep the trees alive, but because it's now a elevated concrete plank deck instead of natural dirt & grass it is visually grey, even if the soil underneath is happier. Perhaps the city could have chosen a more natural color palette (which yes was inspired from BPL) but it'll probably age well. I'm still going to reserve judgment until the full thing grows in - those young trees will need time.
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It' absurd to say the BPL was "local inspiration". The grey of this installation is utterly deadening. The library's stone is rich with subtle variations and warm tones. Gimme a break.
 
FK4 said:
This is a very interesting observation and I think you're dead on. The only association I made to the grey is that it's very much in line with the ghastly grey tones that pervade any staged new condo showing. What I still don't get, though, is why the city would allow something that directly clashes with the warmer tones of BPL, the Copley, and Trinity. This is not some Ikea condo photoshoot, and for such a prominent place, Im genuinely surprised. Even with the low bar Boston sets they tend toward the traditional when it comes to design, in fact their weakness is usually they take it too far, to the point of parochialism.


It' absurd to say the BPL was "local inspiration". The grey of this installation is utterly deadening. The library's stone is rich with subtle variations and warm tones. Gimme a break.
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Everything has to look like an antiseptic lab these days, including this public space AND condos.
 
FK4 said:
This is a very interesting observation and I think you're dead on. The only association I made to the grey is that it's very much in line with the ghastly grey tones that pervade any staged new condo showing. What I still don't get, though, is why the city would allow something that directly clashes with the warmer tones of BPL, the Copley, and Trinity. This is not some Ikea condo photoshoot, and for such a prominent place, Im genuinely surprised. Even with the low bar Boston sets they tend toward the traditional when it comes to design, in fact their weakness is usually they take it too far, to the point of parochialism.


It' absurd to say the BPL was "local inspiration". The grey of this installation is utterly deadening. The library's stone is rich with subtle variations and warm tones. Gimme a break.
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Somehow I don't think you are going to convince the public to spend the money for Milford Granite pavers (the subtle stone of the BPL facade) for a park. The last building to do so was the Changi Airport in Singapore (and we don't invest in public infrastructure like Singapore). (Note even if you have the deep pockets you cannot get the stone anymore, the quarry is closed.)
 
JeffDowntown said:
Somehow I don't think you are going to convince the public to spend the money for Milford Granite pavers (the subtle stone of the BPL facade) for a park. The last building to do so was the Changi Airport in Singapore (and we don't invest in public infrastructure like Singapore). (Note even if you have the deep pockets you cannot get the stone anymore, the quarry is closed.)
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I wasn’t advocating for that (but I didn’t know the fact about it being Milford granite—very cool), just saying you can’t point to some natural and subtle palette as a source of inspiration and then just go with a flat gray color and claim it has anything to do with the so-called inspiration. There are certainly modern materials that have more warmth than what they went with and I think it’s more a matter of warmth vs cold and sterile that is the issue here…
 
FK4 said:
I wasn’t advocating for that (but I didn’t know the fact about it being Milford granite—very cool), just saying you can’t point to some natural and subtle palette as a source of inspiration and then just go with a flat gray color and claim it has anything to do with the so-called inspiration. There are certainly modern materials that have more warmth than what they went with and I think it’s more a matter of warmth vs cold and sterile that is the issue here…
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Don't get me wrong -- I agree that they could have done much better even with artificial materials. They didn't really try.
 
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Like many things around here, I think it's hard to evaluate the colors (and the tree canopy) just after installation. The trees need some time to take root, even if mature ones remain, and the pavers need some patina and wear to really show what they'll be like.
 
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