Crazy Transit Pitches

3decker said:
Maybe if they did it like Toronto and surrounded the mall in apartment towers...
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Toronto is an interesting comparison because from what I've seen they're quite good at building tower blocks near subway stations, but beyond that they seem totally lost. No shops that would make living there actually easy, pretty minimal parks and green space to make it pleasant, just bland concrete like they hired a bunch of architects and planners from 1990s Russia.
 
F-Line to Dudley said:
And this isn't car-oriented? :unsure:

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Only because it lacks rail access today. To get to the plaza without a car right now, you'd need to rely on one of the two infrequent buses that can schlep you from the red line. Imagine being able to step off the subway, take an escalator up, and be able to go to hundreds of stores and restaurants right there.
 
EastCambridgeDreamer said:
What if the Braintree branch terminated at South Shore Plaza instead of at the random, low-density location across from the dump, oh sorry, recycling center! There's technically a fair bit of shopping near Braintree station but it's very car-oriented so no one walks to those stores from the red line. And the town, predictably, missed a TOD opportunity across the street from the station where the Bickford's and Motel 6 used to be and built a few single-story commercial buildings there surrounded by a sea of parking. Technically, the town hall, public library, and Thayer Academy are nearby but are not a pleasant walk because there's no egress from the station on the west side. What if there was walkable shopping and restaurants accessible from the red line instead?

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There are a lot of reasons I don't think this would work. I don't want this to sound like piling on negativity, but here are some of the things I'd consider.

I would guess the vast majority of people going to that mall are from the South Shore, or from the very immediate few towns. For all those people, having a Red Line connection isn't helpful. Most of the clientele lives nowhere near a train station. For the people who live nearby, its always going to be faster and easier to drive because the area is so car-oriented. Moving the Red Line would make it easier for people already along the Red Line to get to SSP, but I just don't think there's actually that much demand. I don't know why someone would get on the train to go to the mall when they could just as easily take that same train to retail and dining at Downtown Crossing, South Station, Harvard, Kendall, Quincy Center, Davis.... really, so many options. I would guess the travel demand for anything along the Red Line to the mall is a tiny fraction of what you're imagining.

Without digging into it too much, you still might be right that SSP is a better final stop than the current Braintree station. But whatever difference there is would be extremely marginal, and not worth the enormous expense of relocating a mile+ of track and station. This is especially true because there are things they could do to drastically improve the area around the current Braintree station that would be a hell of a lot cheaper. Like, they could build egress on the west side of the station. They could improve sidewalks around there.

EastCambridgeDreamer said:
Only because it lacks rail access today.
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SSP isn't stuck being car-oriented only because it lacks rail access. It's also car-oriented because that's what the city wants, generally. The city sets high parking minimums and short height restrictions. You'll notice the current Braintree station as rail access and is still very car oriented. And as you pointed out, Braintree recently had a big opportunity to allow some TOD and they specifically didn't want to do that. It would be no different at SSP.
 
ritchiew said:
There are a lot of reasons I don't think this would work. I don't want this to sound like piling on negativity, but here are some of the things I'd consider.

I would guess the vast majority of people going to that mall are from the South Shore, or from the very immediate few towns. For all those people, having a Red Line connection isn't helpful. Most of the clientele lives nowhere near a train station. For the people who live nearby, its always going to be faster and easier to drive because the area is so car-oriented. Moving the Red Line would make it easier for people already along the Red Line to get to SSP, but I just don't think there's actually that much demand. I don't know why someone would get on the train to go to the mall when they could just as easily take that same train to retail and dining at Downtown Crossing, South Station, Harvard, Kendall, Quincy Center, Davis.... really, so many options. I would guess the travel demand for anything along the Red Line to the mall is a tiny fraction of what you're imagining.

Without digging into it too much, you still might be right that SSP is a better final stop than the current Braintree station. But whatever difference there is would be extremely marginal, and not worth the enormous expense of relocating a mile+ of track and station. This is especially true because there are things they could do to drastically improve the area around the current Braintree station that would be a hell of a lot cheaper. Like, they could build egress on the west side of the station. They could improve sidewalks around there.


SSP isn't stuck being car-oriented only because it lacks rail access. It's also car-oriented because that's what the city wants, generally. The city sets high parking minimums and short height restrictions. You'll notice the current Braintree station as rail access and is still very car oriented. And as you pointed out, Braintree recently had a big opportunity to allow some TOD and they specifically didn't want to do that. It would be no different at SSP.
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Fair enough! Yeah, this is probably not worth doing. I've just been to places like Toronto Union and the idea of having a lot of shopping right on the subway is alluring, but Braintree's not the spot for it. And you're right that the Braintree NIMBYs are very much allergic to any kind of transit-oriented development. There was actually a proposal to build some housing on some of the enormous parking area at South Shore Plaza but it got shot down. Maybe someday we'll see Grossman Plaza do something like Assembly or Ink Block, or multi-family housing in the neighborhood west of the station + a west-side egress but I'm not holding my breath.
 
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