Crazy Transit Pitches

I was mulling over an idea the other day, and I'm curious if it would work.

The simple description is overlapping rail lines. To use an example, lets take Brockton. Without extending the Red Line itself, what if there were another rail line coming *from* Brockton that extended up to the Quincy stops and down to however far south is needed.

That example may or may not be a good one specifically, but it gives the general idea I have in mind. Commuting from/to Boston itself on rapid transit on one line isn't necessarily practical, and the outlying cities (Brockton, Framingham, etc.) aren't necessarily large enough on their own to merit a completely independent system.

But if there were a combined system, would it be practical?

This idea's in practice in a few places, such as the Skokie Swift in Chicago and the incoming eBART service in the Bay Area. Another benefit of this sort of thing is that you can save money by either changing modes (eBART) or using the same mode but shortening the trains (Skokie Swift), allowing for smaller platforms and lower infrastructure costs. As an added bonus, it cuts down on NIMBYs complaining that the one-seat ride from the inner city brings "the bad element" into their town, as dumb as that sentiment is.

To really make this work, though, you need effective cross-platform transfers - when trains on parallel lines are scheduled to reach a transfer station simultaneously so they can exchange passengers on the fly. BART are masters of this technique. Chicago... not so much. As far as I know the MBTA hasn't really done it, though the North Station "Superstation" concept is at least set up for it.
 
I really like the idea above of having the subway extend further out but not actually go all the way into Boston. I could imagine it working great as

Red: Brockton - North Quincy (or perhaps even better a reopened Neponset/Port Norfolk station designed specifically as a transfer/terminal station.

Blue: Danvers - South Lynn

Indigo: Norwood (or E. Wapole) to Readville. This one's tricky because you would have to run it down the center of route 1 from Islington to Dedham Center, since they obliterated the ROW when they built the highway. Running it via Endicott would just be a waste, and I don't think the ROW is wide enough there anyway.


As mentioned, the great benefit is that you could run two or four car trains, allowing for the construction of smaller stations. It would also beef up service in the satellite cities, and allow them to establish links to surrounding communities independently of Boston.
 
Wouldn't it be better to use DMUs for that role instead? I wont claim to know anything about the others, but it would be much more viable on the danvers route as it wouldnt require a whole new salem tunnel. Connect dmu service to the treminus of rapid transit (end blue at lynn), and run it over existing CR trackage. That way if the demand grows, regular cr, longer trains, or even rapid transit extensions could be built to serve the lines instead.
 
Of all of the T's equipment, the Orange Line is probably in the most trouble. The Blue Line has almost-new cars, the Green Line's Type 7s are holding up well enough, the PCCs have a few years left, and even the Red Line makes do most days. Ferry is contracted out, commuter rail is getting new cars and locomotives within the year, and last I heard bus and trackless aren't in dire shape.

So when the legislature wakes up and money does become available, the OL fleet is going to be the first priority. Given that design usually takes a few years, is there any reason they couldn't buy 8-car trains of Blue Line stock (minus the pantographs) in order to speed up the process?

They're built to the same tunnels (except for the tighter curves on the East Boston Tunnel), and the older Blue Line cars were built almost identically to the current OL stock. 8 BL cars is within 2 feet of the length of 6 OL cars, and the capacity is pretty darn close. The only concern I can think of is power draw.
 
Of all of the T's equipment, the Orange Line is probably in the most trouble. The Blue Line has almost-new cars, the Green Line's Type 7s are holding up well enough, the PCCs have a few years left, and even the Red Line makes do most days. Ferry is contracted out, commuter rail is getting new cars and locomotives within the year, and last I heard bus and trackless aren't in dire shape.

So when the legislature wakes up and money does become available, the OL fleet is going to be the first priority. Given that design usually takes a few years, is there any reason they couldn't buy 8-car trains of Blue Line stock (minus the pantographs) in order to speed up the process?

They're built to the same tunnels (except for the tighter curves on the East Boston Tunnel), and the older Blue Line cars were built almost identically to the current OL stock. 8 BL cars is within 2 feet of the length of 6 OL cars, and the capacity is pretty darn close. The only concern I can think of is power draw.
It could be done, I think that was the plan if the recently replaced BL cars had proven up to snuff... The Blue Line's narrower, but I imagine that could be dealt with too.

My understanding though is that the current plan is to replace the OL fleet and the 1500-1600-1700 Red Line fleet at the same time, and thus have a single bigger with two different-sized bodies on top of identical trains... The 1500-1600's are ~10 years older than the Orange Line cars, though they've been rehabbed once.

I'm not sure Siemens could really just fire up the 0700 line again... I doubt they leave those lying around for long.
 
It could be done, I think that was the plan if the recently replaced BL cars had proven up to snuff... The Blue Line's narrower, but I imagine that could be dealt with too.

My understanding though is that the current plan is to replace the OL fleet and the 1500-1600-1700 Red Line fleet at the same time, and thus have a single bigger with two different-sized bodies on top of identical trains... The 1500-1600's are ~10 years older than the Orange Line cars, though they've been rehabbed once.

I'm not sure Siemens could really just fire up the 0700 line again... I doubt they leave those lying around for long.

It wouldn't be that hard. Heavy rail cars are very generic. The Blue Line's supposed uniqueness (short cars and dual third rail + pantographs) aren't very unique at all. The Hawker Siddeley 0600's and 01200's were part of a combined order. They are the same exact car.

-- The length difference is length of carbody only...they're the exact same width and have the exact same components. The trucks and electrical guts underneath are just spread 16+ feet longer under the floor on Orange. But it's the exact same guts. The Blue cars could've been retrofitted with the same ATO signal boxes too (the OL cars were delivered without them...that was added to them in 1987 when the SW Corridor opened with cab signals). The factory can do different lengths of the same carbody pretty easily, since a lot of legacy systems (including NYC and London) have different dimensions on different lines.

-- The couple inches difference in platform heights is adjustable by tuning the shocks to raise or lower the car. All of them have a hydraulic air "ballast" under the floor for ride quality and so things don't settle over time and get out-of-alignment with the platform. If you've ever ridden on a random Blue/Orange/Red car that doesn't quite line up with the platform edge that's usually because the air ballast needs a recalibration or (for too-low cars) has sprung a leak.

-- The power source is the same 600 volt DC from above or below--on all 4 lines + Mattapan--so it doesn't matter whether a pantograph or third rail takes it in. The OL 01200's have the exact same roof mounts and pantograph wiring as the retired BL 0600's. Bring an 01200 to Orient Heights, install an old 0600 pantograph lying around in the carhouse in 45 minutes' labor, and it can run on the above-ground portion as-is, raise and lower the pantograph with the same pushbutton, etc. You can even do this on the Red Line, although those cars were not delivered with roof plug-ins. You can even run them on trolley poles. Seashore Trolley Museum in Maine takes its collection of ex-T heavy rail cars out on makeshift poles...including the Blue 0600's and every single type of Red Line car they have dating back to when the line opened. (To answer that question...yes, you could grab a set of Red 01800's and take it to Mattapan today if one were modded with a pole.)


All of this is why the T had plans to send 24 of the 0600's through a midlife overhaul and send them to Orange to trainline with the 01200's, with the 12's likewise getting rebuilt. Would give them all another dozen years of service and get them to 40 years old (like the Red 01500/01600's) before retirement. Pantographs would come off, ATO signal box put in, floor height ballast adjusted, and blue stripe repainted to orange. They wouldn't be segregated at all...most OL consists would have a 'stubby' shorter 0600 sandwiched in, with the tradeoff in losing ~40 seats per 6-car train offset by much denser headways.

Unfortunately they could not come up with 24 cars in decent enough shape to send through the rebuild program. The carbody corrosion from the salt air was much worse than they thought, and the extra body work required upped costs too high. It proved better value to just replace the OL fleet whole, combine the order with the Red Line, and shoot for cars that would last 25 years before first rebuild instead of 10-15 on extended lifespan.



So if Siemens restarted production of the 0700's without a single modification except for car length and the ATO signal box, they can pump out the Orange and Red fleets pretty quickly. All it takes is restarting their factory capacity. The design phase would be pretty fast if the T can refrain from overcustomization. And there's not much to overcustomize with heavy rail, nor has the T done too much of that with past orders (Green and commuter rail, on the other hand. . .). The 0600's/01200's are based on the same car order as PATH's recently retired PA3's, and NYC Subway's small fleet of R110B's are based on the Red 01800's and were tacked on at the end of the T's production order 18 years ago. We could easily have 3 lines running the same model.

Since the 0700's are operating well they are probably the favored vendor for the next contract, and the T is amply motivated to standardize on one model because it makes maintaining the fleet hugely easier. This just happens to be the first time a Red order has happened in the same decade as one of the others, so it's the first opportunity they've ever had to sync the fleets and reduce their maintenance overhead a bit. And the only reason it hasn't been procured yet is budget. It's a humongous number of cars...by far the largest they've ever placed at once. I seriously think for expediting it the state might want to consider a one-time bond just to get it the hell over with. They can't put this off any longer for the Legislature to fiddle while the T burns.



This is why it is not cost-effective for the T to modify the clearances in the tunnels to use identical cars. There's absolutely no difference in potential makes, and the tincan put on top is by far the cheapest part of the unit cost. If the lines don't interconnect at all (and really, there is no obvious way of getting Blue and Orange linked without some crazy convuluted routing that doesn't fit any established commute pattern) there's no compelling reason to do radical surgery on the East Boston tunnel or run whole trains of much smaller, lower-capacity cars through the Washington St. tunnel for purely Transit OCD purposes.
 
http://www.alstom.com/transport/products-and-services/turnkey-systems/axonis/

Demographic growth in many cities is outpacing the rate at which public transit systems can be built and put into service.

These cities are seeking quick construction, easy urban insertion and improved life-cycle costs. Alstom has launched the Axonis light metro system to meet these specific transport needs in fast-growing and densely-populated cities.

Axonis is a turnkey light metro system designed to run on an elevated viaduct, in underground tunnels or at street level, carrying up to 45,000 passengers per hour in a given direction.

It is composed of industry-standard subsystems and interfaces in order to facilitate upgrades and line extensions.

Amusing. The city in the video is rather frightening looking I must say though.
 
So I made one of those maps. Did this to try a few things out. First, to try out the new Google Mapmaker (Which is alright compared to the old Google Maps thing because it has layers and lets you put in a lot more objects, but scrolling is wonky and you can only have three layers which is disappointing). Second, I wanted to draw the urban ring over a bunch of line extensions. Third, I wanted to draw a network where every heavy rail line had a 'Mattapan High Speed Line" type spur. See if you can spot the joke there. Fourth, I wanted to have a map with both transit lines and all the stops as well.

Here

Turn off the stops layer to make things look better unless you're zoomed in obviously.
 
I know this is crazy transit pitches, but I just can't ever see the point of a red line branch which halves the frequency of trains in the downtown core.
 
I know this is crazy transit pitches, but I just can't ever see the point of a red line branch which halves the frequency of trains in the downtown core.

Well as you said this is Crazy Transit Pitches, and my CRAAZY Transit Pitch involves an express tunnel through Cambridge that only hits the transfer stations (Alewife, Porter, Harvard, Kendall) for the Burlington/Lexington commuters. The second tunnel allows Downtown trains to maintain their frequency. Also, Downtown crush loads will be smaller when many Back Bay commuters opt to avoid the Park/DTX transfer in lieu of taking the Crosstown line straight to the Back Bay. This is for the nutty transit pitches after all. My "reasonable" full build map doesn't have the Crosstown line or the Braintree extension, nor does it have the Ted-running Green UR. Everything else is hypothetically possible in the next 150 to 200 years ;)

The crazy express/crosstown Red ideas? maybe the next 150 to 200,000 years lol
 
Well, if you're going to do a megaproject, you might as well kill a couple birds with one stone. So here's my crazy pitch.

Get a TBM (or two, depending on how the sizing works out) in the ground just south of Forest Hills. Bore a new tunnel under the Southwest Corridor all the way to Back Bay, and reroute the Orange Line into that. You now have five mainline tracks all the way to Forest Hills, and the Orange Line is positioned for extension to West Roxbury and/or Route 128 (via a longer tunnel under the mainline).

Then turn the TBM north, at whatever depth stays below anything of historical importance. Bore a second pair of Green Line tracks under the Tremont Street Tunnel from Boylston to North Station; this gives you 4+ tracks through the most congested part of the subway, with the option to dig under west to Copley Junction or to build the Stuart Street Subway.

From North Station, head north and east under Charlestown, then under the Mystic River to a portal somewhere in Chelsea. Run on the 1A ROW by whatever means - under it, above it, taking away the inner lanes - to Northgate or Mount Hood.

Two of the hardest-to-fix capacity crunches, solved. Two underserved areas, now with direct rapid transit connections to downtown.
 
To elaborate on my overlap idea:

Take a hypothetical extended Orange Line that goes from Reading to Canton. Seems to me there's 3 different ways to do an overlapping OL. Don't get hung up on specific stations, these are just demonstrations of the concept.

1) Two lines, with a short inner line that is totally overlapped by the longer outer line.
- Outer OL, runs the entire length from Reading to Canton.
- Inner OL, runs the current length from Forrest Hills to Oak Grove.


2) Two lines, which extend from their outer areas to the opposite side of the urban core.
- Northern OL, runs from Reading to Forrest Hills.
- Southern OL, runs from Canton to Oak Grove.

3) Three lines, the outer two meeting at a central location, with the third overlapping the urban core stations.
- Northern OL, runs from Reading to South Station.
- Inner OL, runs from Forrest Hills to Oak Grove.
- Southern OL, runs from Canton to South Station.
 
I think the overlap is better served by having each branch independently serve each terminal. Reading to Canton is FAR. Option two makes the most sense from a dispatch point of view I think. Reading to Forest Hills and Wellington or Oak Grove to Canton (setting aside the unfeasibility of Canton as an OL terminus for discussion's sake.)
 
Well, if you're going to do a megaproject, you might as well kill a couple birds with one stone. So here's my crazy pitch.

Get a TBM (or two, depending on how the sizing works out) in the ground just south of Forest Hills. Bore a new tunnel under the Southwest Corridor all the way to Back Bay, and reroute the Orange Line into that. You now have five mainline tracks all the way to Forest Hills, and the Orange Line is positioned for extension to West Roxbury and/or Route 128 (via a longer tunnel under the mainline).

Then turn the TBM north, at whatever depth stays below anything of historical importance. Bore a second pair of Green Line tracks under the Tremont Street Tunnel from Boylston to North Station; this gives you 4+ tracks through the most congested part of the subway, with the option to dig under west to Copley Junction or to build the Stuart Street Subway.

From North Station, head north and east under Charlestown, then under the Mystic River to a portal somewhere in Chelsea. Run on the 1A ROW by whatever means - under it, above it, taking away the inner lanes - to Northgate or Mount Hood.

Two of the hardest-to-fix capacity crunches, solved. Two underserved areas, now with direct rapid transit connections to downtown.

Thats a pretty awesome idea, how much would that probobly cost though? Also have any of these come up in official documentation before? The 4 track green would solve so many problems that its a no brainer. (Kind of like N/S link. a great idea but probobly super expensive)
 
The issue with a second green tunnel at the central subway is the cost, which we tend to completely ignore here in CTP. The close abutting and OLD foundations and burial grounds drive the mitigation costs through the roof. A tunnel under Boylston St Tunnel is even worse because it's filled and (relatively) unstable land. There probably won't be any more tunneling under Back Bay streets ever - except in cleared out land near the Pike trench. That means no superfluous Green Line express tunnels nor a Mass Ave subway. I mean it's physically possible to engineer, but the risks to the surface and the costs to lessen those risks are so large that they probably won't ever attempt it when there are much cheaper ways to improve service (modernizing the signal system for example).
 
The issue with a second green tunnel at the central subway is the cost, which we tend to completely ignore here in CTP. The close abutting and OLD foundations and burial grounds drive the mitigation costs through the roof. A tunnel under Boylston St Tunnel is even worse because it's filled and (relatively) unstable land. There probably won't be any more tunneling under Back Bay streets ever - except in cleared out land near the Pike trench. That means no superfluous Green Line express tunnels nor a Mass Ave subway. I mean it's physically possible to engineer, but the risks to the surface and the costs to lessen those risks are so large that they probably won't ever attempt it when there are much cheaper ways to improve service (modernizing the signal system for example).

Yeah. You only have these practical options for tunneling in downtown:

-- The N-S Link routing (and only that official prelim-design routing because of all the other tunnels it has to thread through).
-- West End bedrock (Red-Blue).
-- South End/Pike-area 1960's urban renewal land (i.e. Tremont St. to Pike)
-- Between BBY and SS under the NEC.
-- Riverbank Subway (no structures to underpin in the mush)
-- underneath the existing B and E reservations


And NONE of this, except for the Link, would use a TBM. TBM's just don't work in mush unless they're impossibly far underground. Anything we do here has to be cut-and-cover, and...well, it's pretty self-evident how few streets that can be done under.
 
Also working on the new google map maker. Its nice.

https://mapsengine.google.com/map/edit?mid=zDJ7PZTCibXk.kg-oClj1m5BQ

With my overlapping rail idea, here's my start on an OL and GL (both heavy rail). My goal is to have the 'inner' terminal for each line be someplace where there's some additional space nearby for logistical purposes. Regarding my heavy rail GL, I'm not really convinced Fenway is a good fit for that; Reservoir would be pretty damn good, but thats almost the entire length of the D line anyway. If the D line were all heavy rail, how far do people think we could extend it west? Through to Wellesley (ideal to catch the students)? Maybe even Natick/Framingham? Is there an ideal length for a heavy rail line?
 
How far down would we have to go to do WMATA or even Copenhagen style tunnels?
 

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