Crazy Transit Pitches

But here we go again...that "technically correct is the best kind of correct!" needling that has little to nothing to do with the flow of discussion. Do you have anything to say about the last half-dozen posts...winston :rolleyes:...or is this now a moderated discussion on hand-throw switches and the 1978 PMT?

You said the infrastructure was in place to run B via C and the only thing you would have to do is relocate the platform at Chestnut Hill Ave. Its a lot more complicated than that, and yes, installing electric switches and changing the track layout at Cleveland Circle could start to get quite pricey.

And connecting D and E at Brookline Village would be much more complicated now than when it was proposed in the 1960s (when an abandoned freight yard was the primary obstacle to a connection). The reason for the 1978 dismissal, that new building construction since it was first proposed make it very difficult to implement, is still valid.

I know this is the crazy transit pitches section, but some connection to the reality of existing layouts and past considerations (D/E) that have been dismissed seems worth mentioning.

And I'll make a deal. I'll stop mentioning the 1978 PMT if you stop mentioning the 2003 PMT, since both (as well as the 1994 PMT) have been replaced by the 2008 PMT and the process for a new PMT should be starting soon.
 
You said the infrastructure was in place to run B via C and the only thing you would have to do is relocate the platform at Chestnut Hill Ave. Its a lot more complicated than that, and yes, installing electric switches and changing the track layout at Cleveland Circle could start to get quite pricey.

And connecting D and E at Brookline Village would be much more complicated now than when it as proposed in the 1960s (when an abandoned freight yard was the primary obstacle to a connection).

I know this is the crazy transit pitches section, but some connection to the reality of existing layouts and past considerations (D/E) that have been dismissed seems worth mentioning.

No, winston, you are not participating in a discussion. You are not paying attention to one damn thing about the context of what anyone's saying here. You are doing this same RR.net Asperger's act you always are: looking for a gotcha in the tiniest minutia--whether it has any relevance whatsoever to the discussion--zooming in to play footnoting scold, and ultimately dragging the thread off-topic with it. The Chestnut Hill Ave. trackage and the D-to-E connector are not proposed projects. No one said "this must be so". This discussion spawned from route designations on a spider map, was evolving into a bigger discussion about short-turns, alternating destinations, and how the GL might evolve into more of that as it grows. I specifically stated...as I have many times before...that those specific examples were not studied. Not even to the point of a needs assessment. With all the usual caveats applying.

If you had any interest in actual "transit pitches" discussion you would've have fucking gotten that by now. Instead you've--again--made this a technical lecture about stuff that couldn't have less to do with the topic and are dragging a thread off-topic with a personal beef against specific posters. You decided to make this all a pissing match about the arcana of the track layout on Chestnut Hill Ave. Do not try to pass a purposeful thread derail off as genuine interest in this topic. It has nothing to do with the topic.


Or...fuck it...do pretend. You just reinforce your own one-dimensional reputation every time you reappear to do exactly the same thing in exactly the same vacuum on another page of another thread.
 
Oh hi, I'm quite new here. like this-is-the-first-post-i've-made new. If I may share my "Crazy transit pitch"/

Lines:


- The Red Line to Ashmont (and only ashmont), extended from Alewife to Bedford Depot or Hanscom AFB in a tunnel under the minuteman bikeway, hitting all the former B&M stations.

- A New Burgundy Line that runs from Chelsea to Braintree, branching off to Brockton and Hingham. It would run parallel to the Orange Line from Sullivan to North Station, and the red line from South Station to Savin Hill. This would replace the braintree branch of the redline

Instead of that weird "seaport rail link", extend the silver line to back bay, with short spurs to BC&EC, Black Falcon, and Chelsea, which would form a ring with the new burgundy line.

-A New Orange Line.
Extension to Reading and Readville/Hyde Park
A New Branch from W. Roxbury to Woburn Center (instead of a green line ext.)
a "local" branch from Malden to Dudley Sq. and Mattapan,

-The Blue Line extended to Lynn, and Riverside, replacing the d branch
The Green Line would be extended past Lechmere to North Cambridge, with restored service to Oak Sq, South Boston via Broadway, Forest Hills, and modified Commonwealth/Beacon st. routes.

2qbr5au.jpg
 
Greetings, and welcome to the board.


Bedford Depot isn't a prime destination for Red. Hanscom's a way different place today vs. when the Lexington Branch commuter rail was still running out there, and it'll be a way different place in the future if Red comes to town. Hartwell Ave. right past 128 is going to be the point of all access to the area. And the 62 & 76 buses hit both Hanscom @ Hartwell and Bedford Depot so the extra Red stop is redundant and wouldn't get nearly the demand as the Hartwell one with the park-and-ride. You'd be better off stopping there and positioning it for a future extension that hangs a right down Hartwell or Westview and gloms onto the nice, wide power line ROW for a straight shot to Burlington Mall. Maybe build up Hanscom first before considering Burlington years later, but that's a much higher-value ultimate target to provision for if you want to leave any slack space to +1 a stop beyond Hanscom. And if Burlington isn't feasible, you still picked the highest-utilization site to end it.


Orange to Readville ain't going to work. Amtrak already has dibs on the vacant 4th track berth from Forest Hills to Readville in its NEC Infrastructure Master Plan. That is needed to manage the intercity vs. commuter rail congestion on the last few miles into Boston. And they will never ever give up the existing third track to go 2 x 2 rapid transit. Fairmount, for all its usefulness, doesn't have so much extra capacity to give that it can absorb everything the NEC loses to Orange. Nor is it possible to widen the SW Corridor here around a tight street grid. So that Orange ship pretty much sailed 20 years ago when everyone committed to building out the Acela. For greatest good, the NEC needs to have all that ROW to itself.


Chinatown portal on Orange isn't reusable. It's been so totally built-over by Tufts Med that there is no longer any trajectory to be had through the South End. And I'm not sure how a line down Washington and Blue Hill Ave. could ever be anything but light rail. It's just too difficult to subway through there, and it wouldn't even crack the Top 5 highest-demand subway digs around town that are buildable. Full Red extension from Ashmont to Mattapan can do a lot to provide an anchor for this corridor. And then consider what a dense net of connecting buses between the DMU/EMU-served Fairmount Line stops and the Ashmont Branch, plus the Urban Ring swinging between Dudley and Southie can do to give Dorchester some saturation coverage. There's more options than meet the eye for giving Dorchester really good coverage, even if they don't look as sexy on a map as a heavy rail branch straight down its gut.


Heavy rail's going to be an awkward fit through Chelsea. The grade crossing by current Chelsea commuter rail station is a hard elimination because of Route 1 overhead and an underground stream in the vicinity. And then there's the issue of where to end the line. You can't easily get across the river into Eastie because it would take a whole new--and very high--parallel fixed bridge. And there's no path for dumping into downtown Chelsea without nonstarter subway digging. If it's light rail, though, you can do a complete circuit to Logan with grade crossings and simply sharing a short stretch of street-running over the Chelsea St. bridge. So consider carefully what mode gives the best utilization here: heavy rail or light rail.


Can't fork the Braintree Branch to Weymouth or Hingham. In addition to killing off the Greenbush Line it would kill off a big daily freight train from the sewage plant at Quincy Shipyard to Braintree Yard where the state ships off *your*...um...own processed contributions to society as fertilizer ingredients for a considerable profit. There's no way to fit rapid transit next to a single RR track through East Braintree to preserve this pretty crucial freight link. Even if you don't care much for Greenbush commuter rail, the sewage plant is dependent on shipping all those sludge tankers as fast as...um...*you* can fill 'em.



Rest of it's all pretty much some variation of proposals that have been talked about at length here and/or studied at official level before. Everyone's got different opinions about what should be run out of what of what should go first, but your map tracks pretty well overall with buildable stuff.
 
I have to believe that a proper Urban Ring investment would do more for the usability and throughput of the system than any of the radial line extensions. It would be very costly, but would have huge functional payback.
 
Just to throw my 2 cents in on most of the transit maps I see here (cause I'm too lazy/don't really no where to start to make my own)...

In my opinion any line that comes together and then branches out should share the same color, with the separate branches receiving different letter/number designations. For instance, asap's burgundy line, I feel should just be another branch of the red line, and each branch be given a number or letter designation. ABC is already used on the greenline, otherwise that'd be perfect for the red line, A-Ashmont B-Braintree, so I'll go with numbers. 1-is maybe alewife/Braintree 2-is Ashmont/Chelsea or wherever the terminus might be.

My other thought is, if we continue to add branches to lines, we're going to see a bottle neck, there is only so many trains you can run through a single track station. Is there any reasonably feasible way to increase the size of the existing tunnel system? I just don't really know what's down there. I know that even if it's geologically possible it is possibly massively cost prohibitive. I'm not suggesting new bores, cause that's already been shot down, but is it possible to increase the size of the tunnels we have?Ideally I think it would be good to see 2 tracks in each direction? I think it adds flexibility to the system that would be very beneficial.

TL/DR for that part: Is it at all possible/reasonably feasible for us to expand on the underground network, or are we just stuck with what we got?
 
That transit map reminds me of a bunch of maps I made using the same template a year or two ago. I was imagining a T system that prioritized all of the projects I would want it to prioritize, but moved in a realistic, yet better than currently executed, time period.

Here is what I made for a "2017" MBTA map:

2rwn7v7.jpg


2023 MBTA:

29cmlh3.jpg


They go on like this, getting progressively crazier...
 
I have to believe that a proper Urban Ring investment would do more for the usability and throughput of the system than any of the radial line extensions. It would be very costly, but would have huge functional payback.

You're right. But the best route for the north side of the UR (Eastern Route to the Grand Junction), can't be done until the N-S Link gets done. And I doubt that's getting done before 2050. Though I'd love to be wrong about that.
 
Just to throw my 2 cents in on most of the transit maps I see here (cause I'm too lazy/don't really no where to start to make my own)...

In my opinion any line that comes together and then branches out should share the same color, with the separate branches receiving different letter/number designations. For instance, asap's burgundy line, I feel should just be another branch of the red line, and each branch be given a number or letter designation. ABC is already used on the greenline, otherwise that'd be perfect for the red line, A-Ashmont B-Braintree, so I'll go with numbers. 1-is maybe alewife/Braintree 2-is Ashmont/Chelsea or wherever the terminus might be.

Red already has a 1,2,3 designation. Alewife bound trains have a number, as do Braintree and Ashmont trains. It's not really used by anyone though as far as I know.

My other thought is, if we continue to add branches to lines, we're going to see a bottle neck, there is only so many trains you can run through a single track station. Is there any reasonably feasible way to increase the size of the existing tunnel system? I just don't really know what's down there. I know that even if it's geologically possible it is possibly massively cost prohibitive. I'm not suggesting new bores, cause that's already been shot down, but is it possible to increase the size of the tunnels we have?Ideally I think it would be good to see 2 tracks in each direction? I think it adds flexibility to the system that would be very beneficial.

TL/DR for that part: Is it at all possible/reasonably feasible for us to expand on the underground network, or are we just stuck with what we got?

Not downtown. Except for Red/Blue. All of the cut-cover tunnels downtown are constrained by building foundations, pilings and cemeteries.
 
Red uses A, B, C.

I did actually read that somewhere some time ago, but they're not used in actual practice. Obviously that would create confusion between the red/green lines.

Right now it's not a major issue, but if branches are added, it might be worth looking into some tweaking of the nomenclature.
 
Just to throw my 2 cents in on most of the transit maps I see here (cause I'm too lazy/don't really no where to start to make my own)...

In my opinion any line that comes together and then branches out should share the same color, with the separate branches receiving different letter/number designations. For instance, asap's burgundy line, I feel should just be another branch of the red line, and each branch be given a number or letter designation. ABC is already used on the greenline, otherwise that'd be perfect for the red line, A-Ashmont B-Braintree, so I'll go with numbers. 1-is maybe alewife/Braintree 2-is Ashmont/Chelsea or wherever the terminus might be.

My other thought is, if we continue to add branches to lines, we're going to see a bottle neck, there is only so many trains you can run through a single track station. Is there any reasonably feasible way to increase the size of the existing tunnel system? I just don't really know what's down there. I know that even if it's geologically possible it is possibly massively cost prohibitive. I'm not suggesting new bores, cause that's already been shot down, but is it possible to increase the size of the tunnels we have?Ideally I think it would be good to see 2 tracks in each direction? I think it adds flexibility to the system that would be very beneficial.

TL/DR for that part: Is it at all possible/reasonably feasible for us to expand on the underground network, or are we just stuck with what we got?

We don't have the options of widening tunnels for express tracks like NYC.

-- New York's system has had that feature since very early on in its existence. We haven't. Our 4 trunklines were built through downtown when the surrounding density was far lower, particularly in Back Bay when the landfilling of the Charles Basin was only a few decades old. A century-plus worth of development has locked the tunnels into their existing footprint.


-- Same geological challenges to widening as there is to building new tunnels. The glacial and landfill mush is extremely arduous and expensive to tunnel through and support without unforeseen impacts to surrounding structures (e.g. Copley elevator syndrome). Moving a load-bearing tunnel wall is almost as fraught with peril as building a whole new tunnel on some different street. Note with NYC: Manhattan's built on as rock-hard a slab of bedrock as you'll find on the East Coast, so they don't have nearly as tough a time.


-- Street grid. Narrow, winding vs. wide and in coherent grid in NYC. This is what sent Silver Line Phase III off the cliff: a wider BRT tunnel on a narrow street. Start contemplating that on 2-track subway tunnels to make them 3- or 4-track and the same constraints start driving the cost to the moon.


-- It's arguable we still don't need it. The Red Line is still not in the same universe as the Lexington Ave. subway and several others in NYC. Not even close. There are considerable improvements to tap on the 3 heavy rail lines simply by giving them modern signaling, tighter headways, and simply more cars. Orange is running far below capacity because it still has the same car fleet that ran 4-car trains through several fewer stops on the Washington St. El; we're 32 years into a fleet shortage, and that's the only thing preventing tighter headways. Red used to pack 'em tighter tighter until its 1988 resignaling spaced out the downtown blocks too far; creeping speed restrictions and increased dwell times from exploding Park-SS ridership has decayed it further. That ceiling can be lifted a lot on the existing track.




Also...every study that slams the T says lack of adequate radial circulation around downtown is what's harming the existing lines, not inherent capacity of the trunks themselves. Those are all the 2030+ doomsday warnings about when transit bottlenecks start inhibiting the Boston economy. So there really is no way of avoiding Red-Blue to load-spread the inter-line transfers away from the Big 4 downtown transfer stops. There's really no way of avoiding completing the Transitway-Back Bay link to load-spread away from Red and Orange @ SS + DTX, and if Silver Line Phase III just can't be built they have to go back to the drawing board and solve this. There's really no way of avoiding the Urban Ring in some permutation. There's really no way of avoiding finishing the job on the Crosstown Bus system and giving Boston a robust network of express buses. There's really no way of avoiding better rapid transit, DMU/EMU, and express bus links to the most critical bus terminals (Dudley and Lynn being the most acute cases).

There's not a whole lot more to say there. The needs can't be put any more starkly. The only thing to debate is which projects need to go first. Then it's simply a matter of breaking out of this trance the state is in, reform the T and give it the resources it needs to survive, and git 'r dun on these projects before it's too late...and without shooting themselves in the foot on senseless waste or half-completions.


As for where tunneling is possible, it's not with widenings on the existing trunks. It's confined to ROW's where there's pre-cleared land.

-- Urban renewal zones that were wiped clean in the 60's and have well-documented underground utilities, generally wider/widened streets from their makeovers in the peak-car era, and more modern abutting structures less likely to suffer Copley Elevator Syndrome like the old churches on Boylston.

Examples would be: South End trajectory off the abandoned Tremont St. Green Line tunnel hugging the Pike to reach the Transitway or portal-up for Washington St. light rail. Or Red-Blue where the West End makeover and ultra-widening of Cambridge St. 70 years ago makes one side of the street far easier and less invasive to mitigate. All of them have individual challenges to solve at single points along the way, but they are nowhere near the daunting minefield that the SL Phase III dig under Chinatown would've been.

-- Underneath existing active ROW's. The B and E reservations, for example. Well-buffered from surrounding structures, doesn't require much road traffic disruption to build, and they have been in use for so long (in the inner B's case, uninterrupted service since 1892) that there was never enough opportunity to string enough undocumented spaghetti utilities underneath. Or under RR tracks and RR terminals, like the North-South Link lead tunnels would go with minimal disruption under the NEC and maze of yard tracks at South Station and North Station. Likewise with the Link...underneath the pre-cleared Big Dig space below I-93. And yes, that is a viable rapid transit ROW if the ultimate build decision sides with 2 x 2 RR + rapid transit tracks instead of 4 RR tracks or just 2 RR tracks alone. Or...if Storrow Dr. is ripe for a downgrade or elimination, a Riverbank subway from Charles to Kenmore (Blue) at very shallow depth on one of the carriageways' roadpack.

-- *Short* infills, where the pain of under-street tunneling is confined. For example, if the E gets buried to Brigham Circle with non-disruptive tunneling under the reservation, ripping up Huntington to complete the distance to Riverway and Brookline Village is not prohibitively hard or expensive (helps also that the surrounding buildings are not too tall). Or Red-Blue where the mitigation to the Beacon Hill side is only a few blocks total.


You can easily see how Green benefits the most from all this by stringing together--in stages--the makings of parallel trunks: the Urban Ring route along the Grand Junction in Cambridge between BU Bridge and Lechmere; the Transitway link through the South End along 60's-nuked highway land; staged burial of Huntington taking downtown load off the Central Subway.

Red could possibly get it too if the ultimate N-S Link configuration leans towards half-and-half RR + rapid transit. Columbia Jct. and JFK sets up an "X" where no two diverging trains will ever cross, so Braintree-Alewife, Braintree-North Station+ (could continue north to Medford if GLX flipped to heavy rail), Ashmont-Alewife, Ashmont-NS+ can all run in any alternating configuration with all 4 legs of the "X" having identical headways to the current downtown RL.


Now...before I get attacked for this yet again by folks who cherry-pick threads only for semantic ammo :)rolleyes:)...of course you have to study. Of course you have to ID what needs these serve. Of course an engineering assessment can make them no-go's. And of course you probably can't do it all. But if you want a starting point on what study areas to focus on for reimagining downtown transit...these are the scenarios that are paths of least resistance and which have the fewest individual points of failure. They happen to match up pretty well with the radial circulation needs, too. So instead of pushing that boulder up too steep a hill pondering things like rip-up/rebuild widenings of the subways or digs of the sort of exponential complexity that killed Silver Line Phase III...use these paths of least resistance as an organizing principle for your brainstorming. We've got a lot of possibilities to chew on. It just isn't realistic to expect straight, pretty under-street lines on a map from anywhere to anywhere. The contours of the built-up infrastructure shape the transit, not the other way around.
 
I don't think Red will ever have more than the two south branches it has now. It won't ever branch out of the existing line from Harvard or Alewife. The Harvard curve is the capacity limiter there. One possibility would be if the N-S Link provisions for rapid transit, then Red is probably the best option for splitting and going through there and taking over GLX or something. Then you could have alternating Reds pinging like an 'X' through JFK/UMass and effectively have four branches to designate.

Like this:

OiBFb7R.png
 
I did actually read that somewhere some time ago, but they're not used in actual practice. Obviously that would create confusion between the red/green lines.

Right now it's not a major issue, but if branches are added, it might be worth looking into some tweaking of the nomenclature.

The 01500/01600 cars got new rollsigns in their late-80's rebuild that did away with the letter designations in favor of a bigger font, and the pure shit LCD screens on the Bombardier cars don't have enough characters to letter them. It may still be on-the-books unofficially, but Red letter designations never entered into common vernacular even when they were marked as such. It wasn't necessary with the same northbound destination on every trip and only two southbound destinations to remember (whose names conveniently start with an "A" or a "B").

Can't see heavy rail ever needing it. How many fantasy maps on the 81 pages of this thread have even forked more than 1 new branch off Orange or Blue? Or done anything with Red beyond thread it through the N-S Link in a 1:1 northbound match with the southbound branches. Or done anything that plants a permanent short-turn somewhere in the middle of one of those maps. I don't think there's enough reaaaaally crazy pitches you could brainstorm that merit a new destination marking scheme on Red/Blue/Orange. It's Green that's ripe for outgrowing its current letters the more it gets branches or the more you envision varied-up service patterns.
 
f-line, thank's for your reply! A lot of good info there.

I had a feeling it was pie-in-the sky dream, but I remained naively optimistic.

I do try and avoid making comparisons between NYC and Boston, because they are so drastically different, but it is my only other experience with a subway system, and I just get jealous of how well it runs (I know they still have their issues, but they're still better than what we've got. I wasn't thinking of the 4 tracks as being used to create express service per-say, I just don't think there are enough stops to really warrant that, I just thought it'd be useful if the downtown tunnels hit capacity.

I didn't realize it until I joined this forum, but you're right that there is a lot that can be done to improve the function of the systems efficiency with better signalling, new rolling stock, etc. And it all certainly sounds more feasible, and something that could have a more immediate impact on service. I know that we don't have the nice straight grid system, but London seems to do ok (again I know very little about their system) and they have narrow windy roads as well. Although I'm sure they have more favorable geological conditions. I would think in terms of routing, we could take more cues from london, than NYC.

Now the north-south link, I haven't really delved into because I thought it was damn near impossible to accomplish, for the same reasons that we can't bore new tunnels. So I haven't done much research on what's out there. Is there a plan for routing and accomplishing this link? I've only ever really heard that it should be done, but not much on how.
 
The 01500/01600 cars got new rollsigns in their late-80's rebuild that did away with the letter designations in favor of a bigger font, and the pure shit LCD screens on the Bombardier cars don't have enough characters to letter them. It may still be on-the-books unofficially, but Red letter designations never entered into common vernacular even when they were marked as such. It wasn't necessary with the same northbound destination on every trip and only two southbound destinations to remember (whose names conveniently start with an "A" or a "B").

Solid point all around, and now that you mention it, I think some of those signs do actually use the A/B/C designations
 
Now the north-south link, I haven't really delved into because I thought it was damn near impossible to accomplish, for the same reasons that we can't bore new tunnels. So I haven't done much research on what's out there. Is there a plan for routing and accomplishing this link? I've only ever really heard that it should be done, but not much on how.

Bob, the North-South rail link has actually been pretty extensively studied (probably for about 50 years). Current version of the plan dates back to about 1993 -- using right-of-way under the O'Neil Tunnel for a new multi-track deep bore tunnel, multiple portals south of South Station; multiple portals north of North Station and deep stations under South Station, North Station and near Aquarium (Central Station) with a Blue Line connection. Plan calls for Amtrak, commuter rail and potentially a heavy rail subway usage (there are various opinions about this).

It was most recently up for funding in about 2007, 2008, but could not get support. I believe that there is a Draft Environmental Impact Statement. I also believe that to date all of the critical access points are still available.
 
Now the north-south link, I haven't really delved into because I thought it was damn near impossible to accomplish, for the same reasons that we can't bore new tunnels. So I haven't done much research on what's out there. Is there a plan for routing and accomplishing this link? I've only ever really heard that it should be done, but not much on how.

Web Archive has the scoping study since MassDOT and the T deleted the PDF's years ago when they reorganized their websites. The Wikipedia entry on the N-S Link has the links to the Web Archive-preserved study. So go there to read up on it. You can waste a good afternoon sifting through the hundreds of pages of PDF's.

The study covers full build with portals to every commuter rail mainline and that opulent Central Station, and maximum thru-running commuter rail. Some of that is arguably such extreme overkill (esp. Central Station) that it's unlikely to be built as the complete kitchen sink outlined there. If/when the project is picked back up for further study the surplus-to-requirement pieces are quite likely going to get ranked as unnecessary (Central Station) or deferrable to a later time to keep costs feasible (e.g. the extra portals to the far less-critical mainlines, all 4 tracks of capacity). And whither rapid transit was beyond the scope of this first study, so that's a debate that wouldn't get breached until the second go-around. This is how a first pass works; it defines feasibility and limits of the project scope, then prioritization gets refined later.

But it does establish conclusively the engineering on the kitchen-sink build, and it is feasible. Goddamn expensive and likely to be moreso by the time they take a second look and tease out any additional complications, but the project passed scrutiny as buildable. Because the trajectory is pinned in by tunnels above and below, we pretty much know now what its end-to-end configuration is going to look like. The only decisions are whether that Central Station goes in and whether cost-cutting has to defer some of the extra portals or full capacity to a later day, but none of that changes the trunkline build or the primary portals to the NEC and Lowell/Western Route/Eastern Route.

IF they want to study a rapid transit half, the only thing you have to figure out is the Red Line's entry point into the tunnel from Cabot Yard, and its trajectory out of the tunnel at North Station-proper into the Orange/Green superstation (probably above the Orange level, then following Orange northbound out a double-wide portal). Very limited study areas, all of it underneath T property, with rapid transit trains able to incline at much steeper grades in/out of the Link tunnel with shorter run-up than the RR trains.

You of course have to do the same engineering scoping that was done in the initial Link study for these two rapid transit entry points to know whether it's feasible. But it's a full known-known that once it's in the Link it's all good. The Aquarium transfer stop with Blue is a hell of a lot easier and more compact to build than the Central Station for commuter rail, so that's not in doubt either.

Strictly a matter of whether they want to include that as a study option if this ever gets picked up for a second round, assessing those two entry points, then chewing on the options for best bang-for-buck and likely setting aside some of the surplus-to-requirement frills. But yes...the Link is more than a fantasy map. It's a feasible build with a known-known configuration and...sorta...known-known price range.
 

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