Downtown Crossing/Financial District | Discussion

DBM said:
1.) "Higher amounts of pedestrian activity in those shopping areas"--do you have clicker counts to prove it? And even if you do, how are you framing the stats relative to overall size of metro population that said shopping area draws from? I'm sorry, but this is just completely anecdotal/impressionistic, with no grounding in data.
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Sometimes you don't need grounding data when you've actually been to the places I'm comparing to. It's anecdotal but sometimes it's obvious just like it's obvious that Fenway Park attracts more fans than Tropicana Field does without even looking at the number of tickets being sold.

DBM said:
2.) "Wet Seal which currently has a temporary pop-up store": actually, it's not a pop-up: https://flyingtiger.com/find-store
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I stand corrected here

DBM said:
3.) "Children's place, Wendy's, the two At&t storefronts, city sport"--these are exactly the retailers, that multiple posters have been trying to point out to you, that Midwood deliberately emptied-out in advance of trying to get its 1 Bromfield St. tower proposal off the ground--demonstrating how large the project footprint would be, among other things. Again, nothing to do with the Filene's pit.
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I'm not questioning that. I'm saying these storefronts should not be empty and it's bullshit that the landlord are withholding them for profit. I also never attributed to these empty storefronts to be empty because of the Filene's pit. What I said was when it was a pit, the city and the surrounding landlords were blaming the pit for the decay in Downtown Crossing. With the pit gone and the fact that Downtown Crossing still have numerous empty storefronts, I'm saying that external factors, which as many posters have already pointed out is due to the landlord's discretion, is negatively impacting the neighborhood.

DBM said:
Please, do some research/analytical thinking before you post.
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I did, it's called field research as in I fucking went to the places and can observe that there is significantly more shops and more people in the shopping area than I observed in Boston's Downtown Crossing. I observed that in downtown Melbourne, there's an area that flanked by 2 urban malls, each with 4+ level of stores packed with people. In Sydney, there is a shopping area covering about 10 city blocks, anchored by a 9 level shopping mall. In Toronto, Dundas Square is bordered by a 3 level shopping mall on one side and a building with 4 levels of restaurants. In Vancouver, the city closest to Boston in size, is anchored by a 3 level mall with numerous shops lining both sides of Granville St.

Like I said, I'm not disagreeing with you except for the fact that I'm calling out Downtown Crossing for what it is, underperforming, which for some reason appears to be some kind of insult to your entire family. Why don't you grab yourself a beer and chill out.
 
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KentXie said:
Like I said, I'm not disagreeing with you except for the fact that I'm calling out Downtown Crossing for what it is, underperforming, which for some reason appears to be some kind of insult to your entire family. Why don't you grab yourself a beer and chill out.
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My apologies for the snippish language... perhaps I suffered a traumatic frashback, when you wrote "LIE" in all-caps, to Rifleman's incessant ranting, and reacted accordingly.

Anyway, per your advice, I've obtained a few pints of the amber-hued liquid (Baxter Hopothecary Double IPA). Perhaps I'll rewatch "The Big Lebowski" on Netflix later to accelerate the chilling-out process.

Finally: I think 9 out of 10 observers, including myself, would agree with you that, subjectively, DTX seems to be underperforming in its aggregate retail offering. But, again--and not to be insufferably contrarian--how could we attempt to prove that objectively? Because otherwise we're still stuck with, "well, it looks like this" impressions. Which just don't help any argument, in whatever context.
 
DBM said:
DTX seems to be underperforming in its aggregate retail offering. But, again--and not to be insufferably contrarian--how could we attempt to prove that objectively? Because otherwise we're still stuck with, "well, it looks like this" impressions. Which just don't help any argument, in whatever context.
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Perhaps # of empty store fronts (or ratio even), total number of night life/restaurant options (which I suppose including Lower Washington would skew a bit), crime stats, and total pedestrian numbers.
 
bakgwailo said:
Perhaps # of empty store fronts (or ratio even), total number of night life/restaurant options (which I suppose including Lower Washington would skew a bit), crime stats, and total pedestrian numbers.
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I've been thinking about this, and you're on the right track here, I think. Here's what I'd do:

1.) Establish which are the 9 other urban areas, worldwide, that best match Boston's profile in size/GDP per capita, etc., so you have a group of 10 urban areas to compare.

2.) I'd count DTX as Boston's "core" retail district. But I'd also include these 8 "peripheral" urban retail zones in urban Boston area:

Assembly Row,
Harvard Sq.,
Cambridgeside Galleria area,
Faneuil Hall/Haymarket/Public Market,
South Bay,
Newbury St.,
Boylston St. in Back Bay (so Pru arcade, etc.),
Fenway/Landmark


2.) Figure out: total aggregate retail sq. ft. (including restaurants, gyms, convenience stores) in those 8 "peripheral" Boston urban retail zones, plus in DTX.

Figure out vacancy %, both by storefronts and total sf, for each of those 8 districts. Compare them to each other.

Then compare them to DTX's figures in those categories.

Also get aggregate vacancy %, and total # vacant storefronts, for DTX plus the 8.

3.) Now go back to the 9 other urban markets that were identified as Boston's closest peers.

Find their rough equivalencies to DTX + 8 or peripheral urban retail zones that I identified above.

Do the same analysis for each of the 9 described in 2.) above.

4.) Enjoy [not sure how to address crime stats & pedestrian traffic, obviously they count somehow, but how do you actually integrate them meaningfully?]
 
46525575111_0cb66aa048_b.jpg


That is a great transition between two buildings.
 
stefalarchitect said:
The layering in this is great. If that parking garage weren't there, this would be the best angle/pic you could use to describe downtown Boston... 18th and 19th century buildings at ground level surrounded by tall 20th and 21st century glass and steel towers.
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The parking garage fits. What's Boston without a little concrete?
 
How awesome is it that there are still so many buildings in DTX dating from the massive orgy of development in 1873-75 in the immediate wake of the Great Boston of 1872? Let's count:

1.) 1-19 Milk St. (Source that they were both built in 1873: https://www.1milkstreet.com/)

2.) 48 Boylston St. (Source that it was built in 1873, p. 15: https://www.cityofboston.gov/images_documents/BYMCU%20Study%20Report_tcm3-29003.pdf)

3.) 101 Summer St. (Source that it was built in 1873: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_Green_Buildings_Historic_District)

4.) 20 Winthrop Sq. (Source that it was built in 1873: http://www.awperry.com/properties/boston-portfolio/20-winthrop-square/)

5.) 1 Winthrop Sq. (Source that it was built in 1873: https://www.brafton.com/blog/editorial-legacy-braftons-boston-headquarters/)

6.) 99 Bedford St. (Source that it was built in 1875: https://www.bizjournals.com/boston/real_estate/2013/11/new-leases-signed-at-99-bedford-street.html)

7.) 681 Washington St. (Source that it was built in 1875: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hayden_Building)

Are there a handful of others? Perhaps. And if you expanded the time under consideration until 1910, you'd have dozens of buildings in DTX that still survive--indeed, are flourishing--as they approach their 110th+ birthday.

Anyway, it is hard to conceive of a single city west of the Rockies (and I include the Front Range cities in my presumption) that has even ONE commercially viable property operating as a thriving office tower, that was built in 1875 or prior. And we have many. Boston oozes history. Happy New Years.
 
Downtown Crossing needs an entertainment venue. Bowling/billiards/laser tag/trampoline/arcade whatever.
 
Sorry for the snark, I had in mind the large number of non-Dave and Buster's entertainment options that already exist.

Agreed that there are no bowling / trampoline / arcade whatevers in DTX
 
CSTH said:
Sorry for the snark, I had in mind the large number of non-Dave and Buster's entertainment options that already exist.

Agreed that there are no bowling / trampoline / arcade whatevers in DTX
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Versus is on Province Street (formerly Gem) already, though I haven't been and don't know how it is. But it's an arcade/bar right off of DTX.

Honestly, we've got to be hitting critical mass with the arcade/bowling venues. There are 4 Kings in the Boston area, including one in the Seaport and one in Back Bay. Lucky Strike is at Assembly, Jillians/Lucky Strike in Fenway, and some Dave and Busters in the 'burbs. You also have A4cade in Kendall.

Why not ax throwing instead? Get (sort of) ahead of that hipster trend since it hasn't cropped up in central Boston yet. If I had a vote for anything along those lines, it would be for whirleyball, but that would require a ton of space. Played whirleyball at a bachelor party in Dallas and it was a blast. Drink heavily (they're bumper cars, after all), and fire away.
 
Lrfox said:
Versus is on Province Street (formerly Gem) already, though I haven't been and don't know how it is. But it's an arcade/bar right off of DTX.
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Versus is a bar with a couple arcade games more than it is an arcade. I went there and was far from impressed.

Its best feature is that the TVs over the bars are hooked up to gaming consoles, so you can grab a wireless controller and play video games while sitting at the bar.
 
Lrfox said:
Why not ax throwing instead? Get (sort of) ahead of that hipster trend since it hasn't cropped up in central Boston yet. If I had a vote for anything along those lines, it would be for whirleyball, but that would require a ton of space. Played whirleyball at a bachelor party in Dallas and it was a blast. Drink heavily (they're bumper cars, after all), and fire away.
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union square somerville is, for all intents and purposes, boston
 
Lrfox said:
Versus is on Province Street (formerly Gem) already, though I haven't been and don't know how it is. But it's an arcade/bar right off of DTX.

Honestly, we've got to be hitting critical mass with the arcade/bowling venues. There are 4 Kings in the Boston area, including one in the Seaport and one in Back Bay. Lucky Strike is at Assembly, Jillians/Lucky Strike in Fenway, and some Dave and Busters in the 'burbs. You also have A4cade in Kendall.

Why not ax throwing instead? Get (sort of) ahead of that hipster trend since it hasn't cropped up in central Boston yet. If I had a vote for anything along those lines, it would be for whirleyball, but that would require a ton of space. Played whirleyball at a bachelor party in Dallas and it was a blast. Drink heavily (they're bumper cars, after all), and fire away.
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Sure, the specific Kings model might be at the right mass, but Boston is certainly under-entertained in general.

Theres a whole range of games such as:

  • Table Tennis
  • Shuffleboard
  • Bocce
  • Ax throwing
  • Darts
  • Batting Cages
  • Billiards
  • Skeeball

Etc which you can mix and match with the appropriate bar and music environment and they can be very, very popular.
 
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