Fan Pier Developments | Seaport

Beton Brut said:
+1

I recall a really thought-provoking conversation with her and briv on the steps of City Hall during the efforts to landmark the Arlington Building. I don't always agree with Shirley's ideas or tactics, but I find dissenting opinions enrich our thinking. This board was more interesting with her as a poster.
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+1 for dissenting opinions. We need outrageous, outside the box thinking, because once in a while, a great truth is uncovered.
 
Stelalr -- the assumption is that Koch and McGovern Brain Science are at the stage of Salvatore Luria, David Baltimore + early days of Whitehead -- circa 1975 - 1990

In the next two decades I expect a lot to arrise from the confluence of Koch & Stata & McGovern on the MIT side and Broad & Novartis, etc. on the otherside -- the Vassar / Main Intersection - quite possibly the brainiest intersection on the earth -- and now starting to look appropriately impressive thanks to MIT's landscaping it as the Northern portal to the campus
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Impressive is right.

By comparison with Cambridge, Boston has done little in terms of bearing its tremendous power of rezoning (e.g. adding value to private property) to ensure that the so-called "Innovation District" would have the quality of architecture, public realm, public art, mass transit compared to Kendall. What substantive planning is Boston doing to keep up? Renaming the same district on a daily basis to suit each press release? Hiking property taxes while doling out carrots to attract development?

Heck we couldn't even see a comprehensive look at Vertex architecture before the shovels went in, no less get excited about something along the lines of the MIT Neurosciences Building (a mindblowing job).

And now that Cambridge planners are finally focusing on residential in Kendall Square, they could be moving light years ahead of Boston. The BRA squandered an entire decade during boom years, doling out gifts in infrastructure and rezoning while doing virtually nothing to ensure that residential development would be commensurate with commercial office/hotel development.
 
Sicilian said:
And now that Cambridge planners are finally focusing on residential in Kendall Square, they could be moving light years ahead of Boston. The BRA squandered an entire decade during boom years, doling out gifts in infrastructure and rezoning while doing virtually nothing to ensure that residential development would be commensurate with commercial office/hotel development.
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Selectively quoting, here, but I wonder whether your first sentence is an indicator of how it has to work. Maybe residential development doesn't make sense in a sea of parking lots and derelict warehouses, but can and will come once the area is semi-built out with employment and entertainment sites.

I have been surprised on my infrequent visits to the seaport by how many people are in fact walking about the area. I imagine this trend will increase over the next decade with the addition of more buildings to establish destination purposes. What's wrong with the idea that 10 years from now, the BRA turns its focus toward infill residential development, following the same pattern as Cambridge?
 
Sicilian said:
Impressive is right.

By comparison with Cambridge, Boston has done little in terms of bearing its tremendous power of rezoning (e.g. adding value to private property) to ensure that the so-called "Innovation District" would have the quality of architecture, public realm, public art, mass transit compared to Kendall. What substantive planning is Boston doing to keep up? Renaming the same district on a daily basis to suit each press release? Hiking property taxes while doling out carrots to attract development?

Heck we couldn't even see a comprehensive look at Vertex architecture before the shovels went in, no less get excited about something along the lines of the MIT Neurosciences Building (a mindblowing job).

And now that Cambridge planners are finally focusing on residential in Kendall Square, they could be moving light years ahead of Boston. The BRA squandered an entire decade during boom years, doling out gifts in infrastructure and rezoning while doing virtually nothing to ensure that residential development would be commensurate with commercial office/hotel development.
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Defintely Cambridge has much more going on for itself than Boston. Boston better start worrying about Somerville at this point.
 
whighlander, I predict the long term nexus will be out Vasser St to Cambridgeport and across the river to Harvard's property in Allston. (And Harvard's property abuts BU.)
 
HenryAlan said:
Selectively quoting, here, but I wonder whether your first sentence is an indicator of how it has to work. Maybe residential development doesn't make sense in a sea of parking lots and derelict warehouses, but can and will come once the area is semi-built out with employment and entertainment sites.

I have been surprised on my infrequent visits to the seaport by how many people are in fact walking about the area. I imagine this trend will increase over the next decade with the addition of more buildings to establish destination purposes. What's wrong with the idea that 10 years from now, the BRA turns its focus toward infill residential development, following the same pattern as Cambridge?
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Turn the clock back to 1970 when I was an undergrad at MIT -- the immediate northern edge of the campus was almost a DMz -- the old industrial stuff had been cleared for NASA and yet nothing had been built except for Tech Square on Main St. where Polaroid had its Hq and the NASA tower now the Volpe Center on Broadway -- the rest was a big open field informally used for soccer surrounded on the fringes by the remnants of the old industrial buildings -- mostly either abandoned or available really cheap
 
HenryAlan said:
Selectively quoting, here, but I wonder whether your first sentence is an indicator of how it has to work. Maybe residential development doesn't make sense in a sea of parking lots and derelict warehouses, but can and will come once the area is semi-built out with employment and entertainment sites.

I have been surprised on my infrequent visits to the seaport by how many people are in fact walking about the area. I imagine this trend will increase over the next decade with the addition of more buildings to establish destination purposes. What's wrong with the idea that 10 years from now, the BRA turns its focus toward infill residential development, following the same pattern as Cambridge?
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I can appreciate this point of view, since A) it seems to be working for Kendall Square and B) the BRA can't go out and finance residential development if private property owners sit on their hands.

But the BRA has actively worked against progress on residential development. Here are a few examples:

1. All independent consultants and independent planners involved in the Seaport planning process recommended that the district accommodate over 10,000 residential units at full build. But bowing purely to political pressure (based on fears of a demographic shift occuring) during the planning process, the BRA's plan for the Seaport accommodated only 5,000-8,000 residential units at full build. Of those, only 2,500-4,500 units are anticipated north of Summer Street. That amount of residential units can NEVER achieve critical mass to be considered a neighborhood.

In other words, since the heights are capped, you can't expect to jam more residential units in (e.g. infill) at a later date to create a neighborhood once all the offices and hotels are built.

2. The BRA has not used its incredibly valuable tool of rezoning to stimulate the progressive evolution of a mixed-use district. That is contrary to the BRA's stated goals for the Seaport.

3. The architecture, public art, transit and public realm speaks for itself at Kendall and in the Seaport. These four things are COMPLETELY in the purview of a functioning planning department. Let's remember that approvals for Fan Pier occurred while the property was owned by none other than the Pritzker family and one could reasonably ask whether we are looking at an outcome worthy of a Pritzker Prize. IMO, the answer is very clear.
 
Yes politics was involved as Souhy didn't want its political power diluted by yuppies -- the irony of course is yuppies moved into Southy itself

As for the plans verus the practice - -there was never a plan for significant residential component as Cambridge Center was being planned -- but there was never a plan at that time for the building on the river housing the Microsot NERD either, nor the new midrise housing expansion of the Broad Institute

if the Innovation District catches on -- as I'm willing to bet itwill - then in the next decade plus of build-out -- there will be plenty of time and space to build a bunch of residences within comfortable walking distance of Fan Pier
 
(cont'd)

4. As for "derelict" warehouses, the BRA has actively worked against populating them with residential units. Two examples:

a) On Summer Street, the BRA approved a two story addition on two wharf buildings contingent on residential development and then a year later, once the additions were approved, the developer filed a Notice of Project Change to reverse the contingency. The BRA approved the NPC while letting the variance for the rooftop addition stand. This action was contrary to all public statements from City Hall about progress on this project.

b) One property owner with 15-20 wharf buildings in their portfolio secured 250k-350k sf of BRA approvals for new construction in Fort Point, with the only requirement that one building (all new construction) be approved as an apartment building. At the 11th hour, the property owner agreed to have a small wharf building host its affordable unit obligations. Not a single condo was required or approved in this entire portfolio despite numerous BRA approvals for new construction, infill and rooftop additions -- and despite the fact that the property owner signed on to the BRA's "100 Acre Plan". All but one of 15-20 historic wharf buildings will be office space with some retail.
 
TheRifleman said:
Defintely Cambridge has much more going on for itself than Boston. Boston better start worrying about Somerville at this point.
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Wal-Mart Market coming to Somerville
By Herald Staff
Friday, July 22, 2011 - Updated 8 hours ago


Still unable to reach agreement on a Boston location, Wal-Mart plans to open its first Wal-Mart Market in the Northeast within the next year just north of the city in Somerville.

"We think our new store in Somerville can be part of the solution for local customers- especially the student population- who want more affordable grocery options in their own neighborhood," said Wal-Mart spokesman Steven Restivo. "We’ve become more flexible in our approach to urban areas in an effort to ensure that our store size, format and merchandise mix is a proper reflection of the neighborhood where it’s located. Wal-Mart Market is the appropriate format for Somerville and we look forward to serving local customers soon."

Unlike the retail giant’s super centers, Wal-Mart Market is a low-cost grocery chain founded in 1998. It will compete with a nearby Stop & Shop and the city’s super-cheap Market Basket. Wal-Mart’s entry ratchets up the competition as more chains such as Aldi’s, which recently opened down the road in Medford, and Wegmans, which is opening soon in two suburban locations, take on longtime favorites Stop & Shop, Shaw’s and Market Basket.

The high-visibility Somerville Wal-Mart Market store - which will take the former Circuit City location next to Home Depot on Mystic Avenue - is just off Interstate 93 and should generate a lot of interest and traffic for the Arkansas retail giant’s smaller, urban concept in Greater Boston.

That area near Assembly Square is one of Somerville’s new frontiers with an Ikea store planned behind Home Depot and a massive mixed use complex including a new Orange Line stop on the drawing board closer to the Mystic River.

Boston Mayor Thomas M. Menino has held Wal-Mart’s feet to the fire for not providing the right kind of jobs even as the world’s largest retailer has courted Hub city councilors and expressed a desire to open in the city.

The Hub’s loss looks like Somerville’s gain - for now.

http://www.bostonherald.com/busines..._coming_to_somerville/srvc=home&position=also
 
A stretch of 28 roughly 2.5 miles long running through Medford and into Sommerville will now have a Foodmaster, a Stop & Shop and an Aldi's in the same stip mall (wouldn't S&S have a non-compete to protect it? I guess they may be seperate plazas w/connected parking lots) a BJs and this Wall Mart. There are also other supermarkets just off of 28 such as the Shaws across from Meadow Glenn. It will be interesting to see how they all do.
 
Sicilian said:
(cont'd)

4. As for "derelict" warehouses, the BRA has actively worked against populating them with residential units. Two examples:

a) On Summer Street, the BRA approved a two story addition on two wharf buildings

b) One property owner with 15-20 wharf buildings in their portfolio secured 250k-350k sf of BRA approvals for new construction in Fort Point, with the only requirement that one building (all new construction) be approved as an apartment building..
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Check-out how MIT (major land owner) and others are approaching yet another redo of the Kendall Sq. area (called Kendall MIT 2030 Initiative) -- by the way they are open to the public even just lurkers and kibitzers contributing ideas

This Kendall Sq. initiative obviously will have an impact beyond the land that MIT owns as a landlord (outside of the campus) and which has been under developed from the point view of the public realm

This kind of effort between the major developers and the major landowners (e.g. Massport) could help shape the development of the Innovation District

http://www.kendallsquareinitiative.org/your-ideas/tell-us/
 
TheRifleman said:
What don't you understand? The reason why Cambridge MA is the home of the Biotech Industry is because of MIT & HARVARD, the talent pool. VERTEX was not going anywhere.
These biotech companies are staying extremely close to the talent pool at all costs. These specific colleges are always on sometype of cutting edge Biotechnology which could be costly to these specific companies from going bankrupt in the future from outdated technology.

Look what comes out of Harvard........MSFT & Facebook Founders.....They couldn't leave MA fast enough. But the Biotech industry is different and that is why these companies are always recruiting.




If Fan Pier wanted to be the Innovation District or the new mini-Kendal it would have already been the mini-Kendal on it's own.

It's ashame that the only vision that Developer Joe Fallon and the city of Boston had was to rip off successful part of Cambridge's hot biotech industry.. IMHO this was prime real estate wasted by GREED and lack of vision.

I am extremely disappointed that we have to watch the Seaport Evolve into a biotech Hazard..........These morons really could not think of anything else but to steal Cambridge's hot biotech companies with massive tax breaks to private developers. It's a disgrace and they still had to rip off the taxpayers.

Answer this question. Private developer Chiofaro wants' to knock down Harbor Garage and is willing to give the city 50 Million dollars to justify for more height for his project. (this is in benefit for the city and taxpayer)

Private developer Joe Fallon takes 72 Million dollars in taxpayers subsidaries to lure a private corporation because he didn't want to lower his rents to Vertex. (this is against the law)

The Mayor and the BRA snub Chiofaro but give Fallon our Money. There is something really wrong with the development process in this city.
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Don has renamed the Harbor Garage project; its now Aquarium Place. That's the only progress he has made in the past year. As for his $50 million promise, he'd better conserve his money. I Googled how much space is available for lease at International Place and the number I read is about 750-755,000 sq ft. That's as much commercial space as he is proposing to build at Aquarium Place.

http://www.loopnet.com/Listing/16756136/One-International-Place-Boston-MA/
http://www.loopnet.com/Listing/16507319/Two-International-Place-Boston-MA/

From Wiki,

The presence of the University of California, San Diego and other research institutions has helped to fuel biotechnology growth.[93] In June 2004, San Diego was ranked the top biotech cluster in the United States by the Milken Institute.[94] There are more than 400 biotechnology companies in the area.[95] In particular, the La Jolla and nearby Sorrento Valley areas are home to offices and research facilities for numerous biotechnology companies.[96] Major biotechnology companies like Neurocrine Biosciences and Nventa Biopharmaceuticals are headquartered in San Diego, while many biotech and pharmaceutical companies, such as BD Biosciences, Biogen Idec, Integrated DNA Technologies, Merck, Pfizer, Élan, Celgene, and Vertex, have offices or research facilities in San Diego. There are also several non-profit biotech and health care institutes, such as the Salk Institute for Biological Studies,
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So that's 400 companies in one metropolitan area in California that don't seem to need MIT and/or Harvard.

As for Vertex, which is mentioned in Wiki,
http://www.vrtx.com/destination-vertex/locations/san-diego.html
 
stellarfun said:
Don has renamed the Harbor Garage project; its now Aquarium Place. That's the only progress he has made in the past year. As for his $50 million promise, he'd better conserve his money. I Googled how much space is available for lease at International Place and the number I read is about 750-755,000 sq ft. That's as much commercial space as he is proposing to build at Aquarium Place.

http://www.vrtx.com/destination-vertex/locations/san-diego.html
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My point is Chiofaro is offering the city and taxpayers a benefit for him to develop Aquarium place.

The taxpayers had to pay Fallon to get his Fan Pier rented.

That is the difference.
 
whighlander said:
Check-out how MIT (major land owner) and others are approaching yet another redo of the Kendall Sq. area (called Kendall MIT 2030 Initiative) -- by the way they are open to the public even just lurkers and kibitzers contributing ideas

This Kendall Sq. initiative obviously will have an impact beyond the land that MIT owns as a landlord (outside of the campus) and which has been under developed from the point view of the public realm

This kind of effort between the major developers and the major landowners (e.g. Massport) could help shape the development of the Innovation District

http://www.kendallsquareinitiative.org/your-ideas/tell-us/
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I don't see Massport as an enlightened collaborator. And regardless of how I feel about it, Massport already has their own master plan for Seaport parcels developed a decade ago. The BRA's Master Plan is published here and was codified in a Municipal Harbor Plan here and here.

The Kendall Square / MIT initiative looks interesting. If there isn't already a thread about that on ArchBoston, I'd certainly enjoy following one.

Continuing my above post(s) demonstrating that the BRA has actively worked against residential on the Seaport here is another example. The original post was in May 2011 on the Madison Hotel thread.

Example #5.

The Boston Redevelopment Authority (BRA) has denied Madison Properties' attempt to switch its 399 Congress St. project in South Boston from a hotel to an apartment building.

The authority has developed long-term plans for the Southie waterfront and always envisioned a hotel on the site because of its proximity to the convention center, according to BRA Spokeswoman Susan Elsbree.

"We will not support a residential project on this site," Elsbree said. "It doesn't lend itself to a residential site. It's ... literally within walking distance to the convention center. We've been telling them it's not appropriate for residential. We are ... eager to work with them on a hotel use."
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More: http://www.bankerandtradesman.com/news144311.html

At the same time this application was denied, the BRA's spokesperson was quoted publicly stating that the BRA had little power to determine the fate of development on private property.
 
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From Wiki said:
http://www.vrtx.com/destination-vertex/locations/san-diego.html[/url]
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My whole point....is Harvard and MIT produces talent that changes entire sectors of industries. The life science companies have offices all over the coasts.
Does anybody have the history on how Cambridge Mass has evolved in the last 20 years? I remember 20 years ago that parts of Cambridge were very dangerous and that would include Kendall Square at the time.
Did these Life Sciences & clean energy companies get massive tax breaks building in Cambridge? The way I see it is that Small business's many that are unique restaurants, coffee shops, Newspaper stands, retail areas brought serious character to Harvard Square.

Alot of these research companies are either spinoff's or funded by MIT or Harvard.
The expansion of the schools have made Cambridge and Boston a pretty cool enviroment.

My example is Harvard Square has gotten so expensive for Commercial real estate that their is probably 5 huge branches of Banks that have Harvard Sq prime real estate. Which it is loosing it's appeal that has made it so unique over the last 20 years.

Now my point with Seaport District and I would love to get Sicilian and whighlander views since it seems they understand the development process in the city.

**Can the Seaport really be a unique neighborhood when they are already pricing out Small business's which are the only reason area's add character?
The area is already compromised to the CVS, Walmart, Walgreens, the billion dollar companies. 400k to Million dollar condos.... This is not how the most successful areas in Boston evolved with Massive tax breaks for the corporation's.
I would say the most successful areas right now.
NORTH END.......
Back Bay.....
Boston Common
Haymarket
Charlestown
Cambridge Ma
Davis Square
Kendall Square

Areas that have lost it's character because big corporations have priced out uniquness.
Downtown
North Station
Greenway
Harvard Square
Govt Center

Hindering right now is Seaport and Fan Pier will this either just be some corporate hangout for the politicans and wealthy elite with a bunch of scientists running around or will it evolve into something for the 21st century for us to Marvel at?
Major issues this area will face
**Underground Transit system is big..........
**Is the area going to be marketed to more colleges, Babson could possibly move into the area, not sure if this is good or bad for the city.
Architecture is already average if that. A couple of box stump building on prime real estate.

My whole point of this blab, I am defintely all over the place with this blog.

How will Seaport & Fan Pier become not just some Corporate entertainment area for blue chip company's like CVS, WALMART, TIFFANY's, HIGH END RESTAURANTS.....How will it be unque when they are already pricing out character?

Sorry for the spelling.

The only reason I thought Patriots and Fenway park would have been good in this area is because it would have made the city unlimited amounts of Revenue. All the taxpayers and city & state would have done was make much better Transit system to that area which would have benefitted everybody.
 
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TheRifleman said:
Can the Seaport really be a unique neighborhood when they are already pricing out Small business's which are the only reason area's add character?
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I'm not an expert, only an observer and commenter on these issues.

There are well-established planning principles that can be established to maximize the potential of a district without significant interference to the free market. It's not too late for a forward-thinking administration to step in and approve projects based on these principles.

Example: Constraining the predominate use of first floor space for public accommodation (commercial retail, civic, etc.) as opposed to private uses (private lobbies, restaurants exclusively serving building occupants).

Example: Moderating the size of retail spaces to ensure that some spaces can accommodate smaller, possibly local retailers.

Example: Ensuring that public space is a combination of passive and recreational uses for tenants, residents and visitors, with less emphasis on ornamental landscaping and useless open spaces.

Example: Setbacks and plazas other than those intended for passive and recreational uses in a "plan" are discouraged. In other words, buildings should meet the street instead of having grand hardscape plazas.

Example: Some understanding of how sunlight impacts a few well-planned open spaces. (Let the rock-throwing begin)

Example: In a city, making a district car-centric should be discouraged. There should be a balance between the size of building footprints necessary to secure financing and a goal of producing some kind of network of more finely grained streets.

These are just a few examples.

For an area that is mainly parking lots such as the Seaport, I wouldn't worry too much about developing for a particular "character." For Fort Point, the "character" of the district is well-defined with its landmark designation and that should protect the wharf buildings while allowing for contemporary expression in new construction.
 
TheRifleman said:
Wal-Mart Market coming to Somerville
By Herald Staff
Friday, July 22, 2011 - Updated 8 hours ago


Still unable to reach agreement on a Boston location, Wal-Mart plans to open its first Wal-Mart Market in the Northeast within the next year just north of the city in Somerville.

"We think our new store in Somerville can be part of the solution for local customers- especially the student population- who want more affordable grocery options in their own neighborhood," said Wal-Mart spokesman Steven Restivo. "We’ve become more flexible in our approach to urban areas in an effort to ensure that our store size, format and merchandise mix is a proper reflection of the neighborhood where it’s located. Wal-Mart Market is the appropriate format for Somerville and we look forward to serving local customers soon."

Unlike the retail giant’s super centers, Wal-Mart Market is a low-cost grocery chain founded in 1998. It will compete with a nearby Stop & Shop and the city’s super-cheap Market Basket. Wal-Mart’s entry ratchets up the competition as more chains such as Aldi’s, which recently opened down the road in Medford, and Wegmans, which is opening soon in two suburban locations, take on longtime favorites Stop & Shop, Shaw’s and Market Basket.

The high-visibility Somerville Wal-Mart Market store - which will take the former Circuit City location next to Home Depot on Mystic Avenue - is just off Interstate 93 and should generate a lot of interest and traffic for the Arkansas retail giant’s smaller, urban concept in Greater Boston.

That area near Assembly Square is one of Somerville’s new frontiers with an Ikea store planned behind Home Depot and a massive mixed use complex including a new Orange Line stop on the drawing board closer to the Mystic River.

Boston Mayor Thomas M. Menino has held Wal-Mart’s feet to the fire for not providing the right kind of jobs even as the world’s largest retailer has courted Hub city councilors and expressed a desire to open in the city.

The Hub’s loss looks like Somerville’s gain - for now.

http://www.bostonherald.com/busines..._coming_to_somerville/srvc=home&position=also
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For those of you that think Wal-Mart has no business in being a 'grocery provider' do a little research, internationally.

Wal-Mart runs and owns the mostly highly successful supermarket chains in the UK and Eastern Europe called ASDA.

Its Whole Foods meets Super Stop and Shop meets Wegman's and is, hands down, awesome......

Boston definitely lost out on this one. But the promised IKEA has been in the works for years. Putting the Walmart/ASDA where Circuit City used to be is a mistake. Next to HomeDepot's Garden Center? Compost and Fresh Vegetables just don't work once they leave the fields...
 
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