General Massachusetts Politics Discussion

[kmp1284]

CPAs and their ultra-rich clients have a vested incentive to want lower taxes and this survey is from a trade group - it's not objective evidence. Reducing the state income tax would take funding away from critical services as a cruelty-is-the-point regime in Washington is cutting state aid. It definitely does not "benefit everyone". In fact, it probably hurts most people who aren't these CPAs' clients (which is the vast majority of us).

(not to be pedantic, but income taxes are progressive taxes - reducing them definitionally benefits you more the higher your income)

Only the ultra-rich hire CPAs? That’s amusing.

And regarding harm to the poor …

It could if that’s how the state decided to do it but before going right for the throat I’d hope for consolidation of state agencies and elimination of redundant positions, perhaps a reduction in force for the state police and the elimination of defined benefit pensions across the board.

 

[DZH22]

Reducing the state income tax would take funding away from critical services as a cruelty-is-the-point regime in Washington is cutting state aid. It definitely does not "benefit everyone".

Was cruelty also the point when our state spent a solid billion dollars every year since 2021 on taking care of illegal immigrants, and now claims it can't afford to fund necessary programs for needy Massachusetts/American citizens? I feel like we'd be fine if we had actually prioritized taking care of our own FIRST instead of last (or not at all). We flushed away billions of state dollars with zero return on investment, and if the "cruel" regime in Washington had lost the election that number would be even higher. The people who are still here will be wardens of the state pretty much forever. The Homebase program is the latest way where we are literally giving illegals $30k to help them afford housing, while normal Americans are completely priced out of the area!!! So we can't afford things like SNAP payments for poor Americans living in Mass, but we can give $30k to illegals instead?

So is it "cruel" to want to take care of our own first, or is it only "cruel" when it's somebody you don't like making the decisions? We had plenty of money, but spent it in all the wrong places and that's not the fault of the people (currently) in Washington!

 

[Longfellow]

Was cruelty also the point when our state spent a solid billion dollars every year since 2021 on taking care of illegal immigrants, and now claims it can't afford to fund necessary programs for needy Massachusetts/American citizens? I feel like we'd be fine if we had actually prioritized taking care of our own FIRST instead of last (or not at all). We flushed away billions of state dollars with zero return on investment, and if the "cruel" regime in Washington had lost the election that number would be even higher. The people who are still here will be wardens of the state pretty much forever. The Homebase program is the latest way where we are literally giving illegals $30k to help them afford housing, while normal Americans are completely priced out of the area!!! So we can't afford things like SNAP payments for poor Americans living in Mass, but we can give $30k to illegals instead?

So is it "cruel" to want to take care of our own first, or is it only "cruel" when it's somebody you don't like making the decisions? We had plenty of money, but spent it in all the wrong places and that's not the fault of the people (currently) in Washington!

These people aren't illegal, they are Americans and it's sad that you've read so many facebook posts that you now support putting them in camps. Is the idea here that we have a bunch of lazy im"migrants" living large off the dole, and that we let them do this for basically no reason? Were you ever mad in the last few years about the price of construction? Eggs? Going out to eat? They do all this work for you and more and pay taxes (including your social security check). How's the weather in Tampa? I hear it's beautiful this time of year. Glad your Wifi connection is good.

 

[DZH22]

These people aren't illegal, they are Americans and it's sad that you've read so many facebook posts that you now support putting them in camps. Is the idea here that we have a bunch of lazy im"migrants" living large off the dole, and that we let them do this for basically no reason? Were you ever mad in the last few years about the price of construction? Eggs? Going out to eat? They do all this work for you and more and pay taxes (including your social security check). How's the weather in Tampa? I hear it's beautiful this time of year. Glad your Wifi connection is good.

Somewhere in the vicinity of 10 million people walked in between 2021-2024 and our state paid the equivalent of over $100k per person annually to help "resettle" some of them here. What the hell are you talking about? Seriously, what? This is maybe the most misinformed post I have ever read over the internet. They were NOT American. This is literally the number one reason why Donald Trump won an otherwise "shocking" reelection. Struggling Americans were tired of seeing their money spent on illegals. One party promised more of the same (ie an escalating downward spiral situation) while the other vowed to slam the door shut.

For the record I live in the area because my whole family is here. Haven't been to Florida in 25 years and never been to Tampa. How's your ivory tower working for you?

I get bent over the barrel and couldn't afford to stay without family help, despite 2 degrees and a six figure salary. (to be fair, child support is brutal, but dutifully paying parents get zero tax help here so I'm basically paying the equivalent of 2 sets of housing, plus my kids drain my bank account far above and beyond the child support payments) I can't make ends meet without my family's help but we can "welcome" tons of unskilled people and pay for them indefinitely, while our own poor suffer that much further. We should be helping American Massachusetts citizens first. There shouldn't be homeless vets or American families who can't afford to feed their kids. We should be taking care of our own, and only if there's some leftover help others. Instead we put non-Americans first and the state reaps what it sows. "Come to our state, here's a bunch of free stuff, oh and Donald Trump is why we suddenly don't have the money for our own citizens." Make it make sense.

I also haven't been on facebook for over 5 years. It seems that YOU are reading too many insane posts from... somewhere? I just don't understand how a functioning adult could possibly believe your premise....

These people aren't illegal, they are Americans.......

I have to put this one more time. According to this link Massachusetts has 388,000 "unauthorized" immigrants living in the state. Not Americans. So does that mean you just lied 388,000 times?

https://www.migrationpolicy.org/data/unauthorized-immigrant-population/state/MA

(EDIT - This is 2023 data so it's actually missing the final influx across 2023-2024)

 

[Longfellow]

I know what the law, which changes every 4 years, says. In my book, anyone who comes here to come build a life for themself and their families and contribute to our culture and economy is an American. Don't really care what color someone is or where they were born. Just like my dad, your family as well at some point, my friends, lots of the people I went to school with, and like much of the people who live around here who are not on government assistance but were once immigrants. I'm sorry that the money didn't go to your child support payments. That blows. I guess if anything I would caution you to think about what would cause you to think and write this way about a problem that's been well-managed for about 250 years by presidents of various political leanings--you seem pretty upset. Could it be the media you consume? Could it have to do with you feeling permission from the president to feel this way about your neighbors? I think that might have something to do with it.

 

[DZH22]

I know what the law, which changes every 4 years, says. In my book, anyone who comes here to come build a life for themself and their families and contribute to our culture and economy is an American.

The boat can't hold the entire world before sinking. Walking in asking for a handout doesn't make somebody an American. There's a right and a wrong way to do it, and we allow more people to come in the "right" way than anywhere else in the world. Your view here is radicalized (maybe too much facebook or tik tok for you?). The law hasn't exactly changed either, except some people in government chose not to follow it for a recent 4 year stretch.

I believe that anybody who wants to come here AND TAKE CARE OF THEMSELVES should at least have a claim to be heard. That's how it used to be. That's how it was when my ancestors showed up. You needed sponsors and to not become immediate wards of the state. We put people up in hotels, paid $64/day per person just for food, hand out $30k for Home Base, give free debit cards, and more. That's not "being an American" it's draining our resources and collapsing us from the inside. Frankly, Maura Healey flat out stole a billion dollars a year from this state to pay for this racket and she belongs in jail. Yet a poor American stealing to survive would actually go to jail, while the governor siphoning off a billion a year to pay for a crisis of her own making (inviting them here created the crisis) doesn't even get a slap on the wrist.

Americans first, do it the right way and I will have compassion for those who need it. Anybody coming here just looking for a handout can go eff themselves and should be sent packing. Too late for our state's current finances but maybe it will preserve our future.

 

[KCasiglio]

‘Something is structurally wrong’: Mass. local leaders are pleading with the state to fix broken funding system - The Boston Globe

For months, municipal leaders in Massachusetts have been pleading with state lawmakers to make changes to what they say is a broken funding system.

www.bostonglobe.com

 

[stick n move]

Has anyone else been getting these ads lately for a guy running for senate where his pitch is that we need to build this orbital light rail ring he drew?

View this content on Instagram

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Its nice to see that some people have told him that he should be working with local transit leaders on existing proposals that are well researched and just need funding/support vs creating your own version of a previous proposal. Its nice to see the enthusiasm for transit from someone running for senate though, but I dont think this is the way.

If he swapped this for NSRL that would be a better pitch and a more transformational project imo.

 

[F-Line to Dudley]

Has anyone else been getting these ads lately for a guy running for senate where his pitch is that we need to build this orbital light rail ring he drew?

View this content on Instagram

View this content on Instagram

Its nice to see that some people in the comments have told him that he should be working with local transit leaders and trying to build coalitions around existing proposals that are well researched and just need funding/support vs creating a pie in the sky idea out of nowhere and going full speed ahead on it. Its nice to see the enthusiasm for transit from someone running for senate, but I dont think this is the way.

If you swapped this for NSRL that would be a much better pitch and a muuuuch more transformational project. Thats why he should be talking to transit leaders first and then crafting a pitch afterwards vs crayoning a light rail line first and then just running with it.

That's pretty much Urban Ring Phase III except for the curious avoidance of Cambridge for the Back Bay. UR III is the highest-ridership project that's ever been studied in Boston, slightly more than NSRL.

 

[stick n move]

That's pretty much Urban Ring Phase III except for the curious avoidance of Cambridge for the Back Bay. UR III is the highest-ridership project that's ever been studied in Boston, slightly more than NSRL.

Yea except skipping cambridge, somerville, charlestown, everett, chelsea, east boston and instead sending yet another line down the central subway.

 

[stevebikes]

Yea except skipping cambridge, somerville, charlestown, everett, chelsea, east boston and instead sending yet another line down the central subway.

So many exhausted marathon runners would eat it on the tracks on Boylston (unless he means trackless). Making the turns on Chestnut Hill Ave after 22 miles is hairy enough.

 

[stick n move]

Yea I guess he actually does mean for it to be at grade down boylston st directly above the central subway, thats… interesting. Especially around the common and downtown, thatd be a pretty tight squeeze. I dont see how that could be ever double tracked, unless its just in the travel lanes, but then at that point it might as well be a bus.

 

[F-Line to Dudley]

Yea I guess he actually does mean for it to be at grade down boylston st directly above the central subway, thats… interesting. Especially around the common and downtown, thatd be a pretty tight squeeze. I dont see how that could be ever double tracked, unless its just in the travel lanes, but then at that point it might as well be a bus.

If he crayoned this without so much as knowing about the well-publicized Urban Ring Major Investment Study that pretty much duplicates the purpose-and-need on a much better overall alignment, it's safe to assume he wasn't knee-deep in the details of such things like how you're going to quad-track the Central Subway through maximum Back Bay landfill.

 

[KCasiglio]

The ‘millionaires tax’ was pitched as a $2 billion revenue source. It’s blown past that, yet again. - The Boston Globe

The state’s so-called millionaires tax has already generated more than $3.1 billion in revenue from Massachusetts' highest earners this fiscal year.

www.bostonglobe.com

The state’s surtax on its highest earners has already generated more than $3.1 billion in revenue this fiscal year, with still two months to be counted, likely leaving lawmakers with a generous surplus to dole out next spring.

The amount, disclosed in a letter released by the state Department of Revenue, already tops the $3 billion the state collected from the so-called millionaires tax during fiscal year 2025. It also far surpasses the $2.4 billion the state projected to spend from the levy in the fiscal year that ends next month.

[...]

Phineas Baxandall, director of research and policy analysis at the Massachusetts Budget and Policy Center, said while the surtax revenue has grown, so too has the Legislature’s reliance on it to fund tranches of the budget, including child care grants or sending more money to the MBTA.

[...]

The surplus, he said, is fueled by business sales and equity returns, which are directly tied to the health of the stock market.

“The stock market has been booming, and so the millionaires tax is bringing in revenue,” he said. “This money is volatile. If the state builds a budget that relies on this money for core programs, you are going to have a hole in core programs [in the future].”

For the revenue to have exceeded all expectations and then just get plowed into covering operations is head-against-wall inducing.

 

[commuter guy]

That article had some pessimistic points sprinkled in such as:

"Federal data show that people are, in fact, leaving the state. IRS data released in March found that nearly 30,000 more people left Massachusetts than came into it from 2022 to 2023, according to tax returns — one of the highest numbers of any state in the country.
Within the highest-earning bracket — those earning $200,000 or more — 8,676 more individuals left the state than came into it from 2022 to 2023. That represents around 29 percent of the total net loss, data show."

As referenced above, the stock market has been on a tear, which has bolstered tax revenues. I wouldn't, however, be surprised if, going forward, there was a large drop, decline or a fairly long stagnation in the market.

 

[jklo]

For the revenue to have exceeded all expectations and then just get plowed into covering operations is head-against-wall inducing.

If you're talking about the "transportation and education" bit.. that should have been pretty obvious that was a ploy to get it passed.

I do think there's going to be another band added. I guess 7.5% would make the most sense. The question would be at what level.

That article had some pessimistic points sprinkled in such as:

"Federal data show that people are, in fact, leaving the state. IRS data released in March found that nearly 30,000 more people left Massachusetts than came into it from 2022 to 2023, according to tax returns — one of the highest numbers of any state in the country.
Within the highest-earning bracket — those earning $200,000 or more — 8,676 more individuals left the state than came into it from 2022 to 2023. That represents around 29 percent of the total net loss, data show."

Well, the tax wouldn't be hitting them. Unless they were getting dinged from also including profit from selling their home.

 

[Justbuildit]

If you're talking about the "transportation and education" bit.. that should have been pretty obvious that was a ploy to get it passed.

Not to be pedantic, but I think it's still true that funds are limited to education and transportation? The sole exception I'm aware of is the Quincy parking garage project, which was justified because it's almost, nearly, barely related to transportation. MBTA operations are I think a fair interpretation of "transportation" even if it's not capex or laying new tracks. The mechanism, as I understand it, is the clear language in the constitutional amendment that forbids broad spending (below). I haven't heard of any of these funds being appropriated to the general fund or appropriated for anything clearly outside the education/transportation remit, but happy to be corrected. Yes, money is fungible etc etc, but things seem to be generally consistent with the text.


To provide the resources for quality public education and affordable public colleges and universities , and for the repair and maintenance of roads , bridges and public transportation , all revenues received in accordance with this paragraph shall be expended, subject to appropriation , only for these purposes . In addition to the taxes on income otherwise authorized under this Article, there shall be an additional tax of 4 percent on that portion of annual taxable income in excess of $1,000,000 (one million dollars) reported on any return related to those taxes. To ensure that this additional tax continues to apply only to the commonwealth’s highest income taxpayers , this $1,000,000 (one million dollars) income level shall be adjusted annually to reflect any increases in the cost of living by the same method used for federal income tax brackets. This paragraph shall apply to all tax years beginning on or after January 1, 2023 .

 

[commuter guy]

Well, the tax wouldn't be hitting them. Unless they were getting dinged from also including profit from selling their home.

Unfortunately, the IRS doesn't release data on the migration of taxpayers making over $1,000,000. Over $200,000 is the highest threshold tracked so it is the closest proxy we have to track migration of the wealthy. Mass doesn't fare well, the state out-migration of wealthy taxpayers is among the worst in the country. How much of that is the result of millionaires tax, who knows? It's not just the wealthy either as the state has relatively very high out-migration overall, only exceeded by NY, California and Illinois. There is no denying that regardless of the cause(s) that the migration trends are not good for the state and it's long term competitiveness.

 

[jklo]

Unfortunately, the IRS doesn't release data on the migration of taxpayers making over $1,000,000. Over $200,000 is the highest threshold tracked so it is the closest proxy we have to track migration of the wealthy. Mass doesn't fare well, the state out-migration of wealthy taxpayers is among the worst in the country. How much of that is the result of millionaires tax, who knows? It's not just the wealthy either as the state has relatively very high out-migration overall, only exceeded by NY, California and Illinois. There is no denying that regardless of the cause(s) that the migration trends are not good for the state and it's long term competitiveness.

That's probably the people going to NH and Maine because of cheaper SFH. Maine even has higher income tax brackets lower than a mill... but of course people could just claim their office is in MA (or NH)

 

[JumboBuc]

Unfortunately, the IRS doesn't release data on the migration of taxpayers making over $1,000,000. Over $200,000 is the highest threshold tracked so it is the closest proxy we have to track migration of the wealthy. Mass doesn't fare well, the state out-migration of wealthy taxpayers is among the worst in the country. How much of that is the result of millionaires tax, who knows? It's not just the wealthy either as the state has relatively very high out-migration overall, only exceeded by NY, California and Illinois. There is no denying that regardless of the cause(s) that the migration trends are not good for the state and it's long term competitiveness.

Over $1 million wouldn't even be the relevant population to look at since this tax barely impacts people around the threshold. If you make $1 million the "Millionaire Tax" costs you nothing, and if you make $1.5 million it costs you $16k a year. That's not enough to move over.

There are so many factors in the big picture of cost-of-living across states (housing costs, property taxes, private vs public school costs, household labor costs, etc.) that this tax amount alone wouldn't be enough to move the needle. I totally buy that cost-of-living writ large makes people move, but this 4% alone isn't gonna do it.

I'm curious as to how many people with incomes well above $1 million have those consistently. If the startup you work for gets bought out or goes public you can hit a multi-million payout in one year, but that's not a recurring income stream you shape your life around. I wonder how many people fit in that bucket.

That's probably the people going to NH and Maine because of cheaper SFH. Maine even has higher income tax brackets lower than a mill... but of course people could just claim their office is in MA (or NH)

That's not how state income tax works. This is an oversimplification, but in the end you basically end up paying the higher of where you live and where you work. And if you work in multiple states you allocate your "where you work" income accordingly.