General MBTA Topics (Multi Modal, Budget, MassDOT)

If a truck flips over on Route 128 and traffic is hell, somehow it's never the highway system's fault in the eyes of the public. These things happen. That they happened multiple times in 3 days is just bad luck.
 
Equilibria said:
If a truck flips over on Route 128 and traffic is hell, somehow it's never the highway system's fault in the eyes of the public. These things happen. That they happened multiple times in 3 days is just bad luck.
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Doesn't look like a switch derailment like the Kenmore incident however.. could it be a failed propulsion motor in one of the cars at track speed? As in could the age of the cars have contributed to the derailment?
 
Equilibria said:
If a truck flips over on Route 128 and traffic is hell, somehow it's never the highway system's fault in the eyes of the public. These things happen. That they happened multiple times in 3 days is just bad luck.
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I always enjoy that wierd bit of psychology. People can sit for two hours in traffic on the way to Boston and be an hour late and it's justifiable because some idiot got in a wreck, but good forbid one single thing goes wrong on a transit system that makes them even 10 minutes late... My other favorite is people for some reason thinking they're owed reimbursement for the expensive Uber or a refund for their monthly pass because of the delayed trains... Never see people demanding their toll back because there was traffic in the TWT...
 
Equilibria said:
If a truck flips over on Route 128 and traffic is hell, somehow it's never the highway system's fault in the eyes of the public. These things happen. That they happened multiple times in 3 days is just bad luck.
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HelloBostonHi said:
I always enjoy that wierd bit of psychology. People can sit for two hours in traffic on the way to Boston and be an hour late and it's justifiable because some idiot got in a wreck, but good forbid one single thing goes wrong on a transit system that makes them even 10 minutes late... My other favorite is people for some reason thinking they're owed reimbursement for the expensive Uber or a refund for their monthly pass because of the delayed trains... Never see people demanding their toll back because there was traffic in the TWT...
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The comparison is not an apt one. The MBTA is government-operated and government owned, with no ability for for the public to use it outside of those retrictions. IE, you can't drive your own train.

The roadway system is for the public and when a random citizen fucks up, it's to be expected. There is certainly no guarantee that roads be free of traffic or function according to a schedule. Only the MBTA is a service, not the highway, and if you are providing a service and guaranteeing a schedule, people will rightfully be more angry when the schedule is fucked up.. regardless of whether it's the service's infrastructure or operator. Yes, the risk of human error will always exist, but the bar is certainly higher for a transit authority than for a roadway (where only the bare minimum - a driver's license - is required).
 
HelloBostonHi said:
I always enjoy that wierd bit of psychology. People can sit for two hours in traffic on the way to Boston and be an hour late and it's justifiable because some idiot got in a wreck, but good forbid one single thing goes wrong on a transit system that makes them even 10 minutes late... My other favorite is people for some reason thinking they're owed reimbursement for the expensive Uber or a refund for their monthly pass because of the delayed trains... Never see people demanding their toll back because there was traffic in the TWT...
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I mean Japan issued a country wide apology on the news because one of their Shinkansen trains was 20 seconds late.

Roads are inherently dangerous with changing wear and conditions, hundreds of different vehicles, in different condition, where each one has its own driver, with different levels of experience. Trains run on rails and with examples like Japan its very possible with the effort to have very very consistent times. Nobody is saying Boston has to be Japan, but they show what the possibility is and that theres a lot of room for improvement.
 
Equilibria said:
If a truck flips over on Route 128 and traffic is hell, somehow it's never the highway system's fault in the eyes of the public. These things happen. That they happened multiple times in 3 days is just bad luck.
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That's a very weak argument. Unless the road caused that truck to flip over, it's not a valid comparison. This is another major failure by the MBTA and one that will continue to shake people's confidence in riding the system. Multiple derailments in a span of a couple of weeks is not bad luck - it's embarrassing. Especially when a fare hike is set to happen very soon.
 
It's not coincidental or bad luck when we have a SOGR backlog of more than $10 billion and trains keep derailing. These are connected.
 
Coyote137 said:
It's not coincidental or bad luck when we have a SOGR backlog of more than $10 billion and trains keep derailing. These are connected.
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It's not all SOGR-related. The Type 8's are well under their rated lifespan and the Green Line has the most immaculate track/switch structures it's had since Wartime for all the lineside overcompensation that's gone in to keeping those things on the tracks. The vehicles are just steaming piles of crap, and the inability thus far to design an auto-stop or speed enforcement system that doesn't kneecap downtown headways has left it nakedly vulnerable to operator error.


Sometimes, complex agencies have varied and complex problems. Let's not pretend there's some magic cure-all when the ailments are that disparate.
 
Can confidently say the green line derailment had nothing to do with SOGR backlog. It was operator error, possibly could have been prevented by the currently in design "Green Line Train Protection System" but that's not state of good repair backlog, that's just normal modernization spending.
 
I was speaking more about the Red Line, as I'm aware the GL derailment was operator error, but if today was operator error as well then I'm really surprised. Anyway, I was also including the various other derailments in the system that have happened recently (realizing that CR is something of a different animal).

I also realize that SOGR doesn't necessarily include particular items in the capital budget. I'm less interested here in how things are budgetarily defined (although that certainly is more than worthy of discussion) than in how chronic underinvestment and/or mismanagement has built up to this point.
 
What is with all these damn derailments?!! Ridiculous!! :shock:
 
Why is the derailed Red Line car gonna take so long to get back on the tracks?
 
Riverside said:
Why is the derailed Red Line car gonna take so long to get back on the tracks?
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Haven't looked into it in depth or watched the press conference(s), but I'm going to guess the location of the train is making it difficult to move it. Depending on how they position the crane, they made need access to the right of way, and they can't cut off the limited service they currently have, so have to wait until later (at least until after peak hours) and then attempt to re-rail it.

There's also no word on the condition of the switch (if that's the culprit) or any other resulting damage. That may take a few hours/days depending on the severity and complexity.

Also, karma.
 
I'm going to make a partially educated guess and say that this red line derailment was some sort of mechanical failure.
 
stefalarchitect said:
Haven't looked into it in depth or watched the press conference(s), but I'm going to guess the location of the train is making it difficult to move it. Depending on how they position the crane, they made need access to the right of way, and they can't cut off the limited service they currently have, so have to wait until later (at least until after peak hours) and then attempt to re-rail it.

There's also no word on the condition of the switch (if that's the culprit) or any other resulting damage. That may take a few hours/days depending on the severity and complexity.

Also, karma.
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Yeah the other big issue it's it's stuck directly under a bridge, combined with maintaining the active commuter rail lines. They've got a crane positioned on the bridge overhead I believe. Also from the press conference and some pictures, looks like it did some damage to a signal bungalow which if so, is a longer process to fully repair.
 
HelloBostonHi said:
Yeah the other big issue it's it's stuck directly under a bridge, combined with maintaining the active commuter rail lines. They've got a crane positioned on the bridge overhead I believe. Also from the press conference and some pictures, looks like it did some damage to a signal bungalow which if so, is a longer process to fully repair.
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They have both a crane on trucks on the right of way and a crane on Columbia Ave. Sounds like it is going to be a slow process picking it up..
 
According to twitter,
"During the derailment, the train struck multiple signal bungalows outside of JFK/UMass. These are the sheds that house the hardware that controls our signal system. Looking ahead, bungalows will need to be rebuilt, new signals & cables installed, tracks repaired. At this time, we can't say how long that will take."

Resulting in manual signaling from the control center, 10mph through the station and junction, countdown clocks turned off, reduced headways. Can't blame anyone for taking a TNC this morning. So much for cutting down on I93 traffic.
 
sneijder said:
According to twitter,
"During the derailment, the train struck multiple signal bungalows outside of JFK/UMass. These are the sheds that house the hardware that controls our signal system. Looking ahead, bungalows will need to be rebuilt, new signals & cables installed, tracks repaired. At this time, we can't say how long that will take."

Resulting in manual signaling from the control center, 10mph through the station and junction, countdown clocks turned off, reduced headways. Can't blame anyone for taking a TNC this morning. So much for cutting down on I93 traffic.
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This is what they need to fix:

https://twitter.com/JacqueGoddard/status/1138781686588682240
 
Hopefully the MBTA moves this critical infrastructure to a safer location.
 
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