General Portland Discussion

[cneal]

Former St.Joesph's site in North Deering is now owned by something called "ST J Housing LLC" There has been some kind of survey team in the area as well.

Nice find!

According to Open Corporates, "ST J HOUSING LLC" was incorporated in March with an address at the law offices of Drummond Woodsum:
https://opencorporates.com/companies/us_me/202609116DC

I'd note that Drummond Woodsum does a fair amount of work for affordable housing developers.

 

[MarkHB]

Forbes has decided that Jim Brady's new Evalina Hotel Is posh enough to cover. 215 Commercial, so apparently the door is in the tiny building that blocked the remnant of Lime Street and killed The Portland Greengrocer (they needed access to the back alley). Sounds like the rooms extend into the upper levels of the block next door where Stonewall Kitchen is

 

[Portlander]

The writer must not have done any research. Downtown Portland currently has 16 hotels with a room total exceeding 2100. There are two more hospitality projects (Fidelity Building and Home 2 on Fore) that will be adding even more rooms in the future and bringing the hotel count to 18 NOT counting the La Quinta, Clarion and the Inn at St John due to their fringe location.

 

[MarkHB]

The writer must not have done any research. Downtown Portland currently has 16 hotels with a room total exceeding 2100. There are two more hospitality projects (Fidelity Building and Home 2 on Fore) that will be adding even more rooms in the future and bringing the hotel count to 18 NOT counting the La Quinta, Clarion and the Inn at St John due to their fringe location.

Not to mention the 4 out by the Turnpike (Hampton Inn, Motel 6, Fireside Inn and Ramada). Same deal as regards fringe location, plus at least one is somewhat sketchy.

 

[Portlander]

I've stopped living at the Motel 6 a few months ago so it is no longer considered sketchy.

 

[BiddefordArch]

New Tempo Art proposal for Monument Square, hadn't seen it on another page here. No opinion on the art, but I thought the mention of the City having "intentions" to renovate the square was interesting!

From the Art Committee agenda for 6/4/2026:

Arise is a painted mural installed by artist Pamela Chevez on the brick paving in Monument Sq. It features a thirteen word poem by Arisa White
Painted on the ground the mural will see natural degradation through public use. Winter removals will impact the work as well. In Spring 2027 TEMPOart will assess the condition to determine whether to repair or remove. It is our understanding that the City of Portland has intentions on the renovation of the Square, should the mural's condition be maintained to an acceptable level, it may be possible for an extension beyond June 2027.

 

[Max]

Cool, but the square is in dire need of a comprehensive makeover.

 

[TC_zoid]

The idea to do something dramatic in art is good, but this design is not. The city should probably talk to me. I managed the Champagne bottles design (30 feet in length) painted on the tarmac of the East 34th Street Heliport (NYC). They are resistant to decay, and the bottle to the far left has a UV layer for the middle emblem to glow in the dark at night. It can be seen from the Space Station. There is nothing like this scaled concept in the world. Check it out on Google Earth. Cheers.

 

[DanielPWM19]

Interesting new real estate listings:

522 Washington Ave
526 Washington Ave

These are in North Deering just over Tukey's Bridge ... maybe a place for some larger housing redevelopment. Or something Roux Institute could eye for housing.

 

[nomc]

If someone is interested in redevelopment I hope they at least try to reach out to the owner of the 5 and 13 Bates St lots - it'd be nice for that corner to become something more than a used car sales lot.

 

[MarkHB]

Just restore the compass points markers that used to indicate the corners of the original City Hall, probably in granite rather than brass so they stand less chance of getting stolen for scrap. Monument Square is, or should be, the business center of Maine, and this doesn't fit.

 

[DZH22]

I mentioned it already on the Old Port Square thread, but the IZ policy has been a complete disaster for Portland.

Hundreds of housing units on hold: https://mainebiz.biz/article/portlands-iz-fee-has-put-hundreds-of-housing-units-on-hold/

Public dollars touted incorrectly as IZ: https://www.urbanistportland.me/blo...-of-affordable-housing-our-public-dollars-did

More "studies" despite evidence: https://mainepolicy.org/portland-studies-inclusionary-zoning-again-despite-evidence/

Driven developers away: https://www.bangordailynews.com/202...me-housing-driven-developers-away-joam40zk0w/

Damning chart shows that IZ has stuffed Portland development into a locker until future notice and should be a warning to other cities everywhere, including Boston:

Honestly, 1. most of us already knew this was going to happen, and 2. this is beyond pathetic. Way to go Portland.

 

[TC_zoid]

From today's paper. The writers have skewed their data. I think many in these groups have a personal investment in the matter, namely that they own a home or apartment building in Portland. They don't want more housing because it keeps their own home prices and rentable apartments high, and so they make more money. If Portland lowered the requirement back down to 10%, there would be a new flood of building apartments for an eventual oversupply, thus lowering prices again (capitalism, it works). Portland will never be cheap again for the simple reason that the city and it's residents have created a wonderful place to live and work. I travel to cities all over the country. Portland is a de facto utopia compared to these other places. It needs to be careful with its housing mix. Too much of either will create a disruption imbalance.

 

[cneal]

Damning chart shows that IZ has stuffed Portland development into a locker until future notice and should be a warning to other cities everywhere, including Boston:
View attachment 72760

Honestly, 1. most of us already knew this was going to happen, and 2. this is beyond pathetic. Way to go Portland.

@DZH22, you've been duped into posting misleading reactionary ragebait from our dumbest social media site, which is exactly what social media is for, so congratulate yourself and send me $8 for a meaningless blue checkmark.

This chart shows "units completed by year of approval". It typically takes about 3-4 years for a multifamily housing development to go from planning approval to completion (and this timeframe also got longer because of supply chain shortages and inflation in the years immediately following the pandemic).

So this person is lying to you: the low numbers you see in 2022-2024 don't have anything to do with IZ.

They're low because the apartments approved in '22, '23, and '24 hadn't been completed yet. Here's some slightly more up-to-date data from the city's housing dashboard – note that 2023 was a huge year for new housing approvals, but only about 75 of those approved homes have been finished so far:

One of the biggest affordable housing developments this city has ever seen – 89 Elm, with 201 apartments – got its approval in 2023 to fulfill the IZ requirement for Reveler's multi-block development. It's under construction now with two tower cranes over Bayside and probably won't be completed 'til 2027.

2025 was the Portland's biggest year in the past century for new housing approvals (1,420 homes approved citywide) and 2023 was the second-biggest year (1,307).

There are two indisputable facts that the chart above obscures:

• Portland is now building more housing than it's built has in decades (and it's still not enough),
• Since the stronger IZ ordinance went into effect, we've also built more housing than any of the surrounding municipalities that don't have IZ even though they have a lot more empty land, like Westbrook, South Portland, and even Scarborough (per regional building permit data).

I'm fine debating the actual merits of IZ. I agree it makes housing production more difficult for developers once they've got control of a piece of land. But combined with rent control, it also makes Portland's real estate less attractive to private equity investors who are looking for windfall profits from massive increases in the price of land and housing – which is why right-wingers and sleazy realtors (but I repeat myself) hate it so much.

But you can't have a real conversation the merits of IZ if you're spraying the debate with bullshit like this. Also, the City Council isn't stupid. Unlike the Twitter poster from New York City here, the people who run this city know what's actually happening on the ground.

 

[TC_zoid]

I have an architect relative pricing out a 5 unit/6 story condo build in Portland and construction costs are steep. The crackdown on immigrants in the last year has also contributed with laborers who do things like framing, drywall and roofing. I know of someone who had a new roof put on their house last year and it was done under budget and fast thanks to a half-dozen hard workers from El Salvador. They were all in their 30s and two were women! Around ten years ago I paid someone (a cooter) to construct a gutter at the back of the house and it was not cheap. He was slow, and when I got back to Maine to see the work, he had installed it at the first and second floor lip, and so the top roof overhang extended out beyond his gutter! He didn't even bother to look up to see the actual roof ledge! Or maybe he did and was too lazy to figure out how to do it properly. Whether it's handyman or yard work, let's face it, we need help from new people coming to Maine.

 

[DZH22]

@DZH22, you've been duped into posting misleading reactionary ragebait from our dumbest social media site, which is exactly what social media is for, so congratulate yourself and send me $8 for a meaningless blue checkmark.

This cha
I'm fine debating the actual merits of IZ. I agree it makes housing production more difficult for developers once they've got control of a piece of land. But combined with rent control, it also makes Portland's real estate less attractive to private equity investors who are looking for windfall profits from massive increases in the price of land and housing – which is why right-wingers and sleazy realtors (but I repeat myself) hate it so much.

But you can't have a real conversation the merits of IZ if you're spraying the debate with bullshit like this.

First of all, you completely skipped all the other links plus decades of historical data that are not in your favor. Because of course you would.

Second of all, you wore your partisan politics on your sleeve so I know exactly where you stand coming into this. The rudeness with "I've been duped" is a hallmark of your type and never appreciated.

• Since the stronger IZ ordinance went into effect, we've also built more housing than any of the surrounding municipalities that don't have IZ even though they have a lot more empty land, like Westbrook, South Portland, and even Scarborough (per regional building permit data).

Third of all this comes from your link. First off with your statement, it sounds like you're saying that Portland has built more housing as a whole than these other towns. Well it's way bigger so it SHOULD have done so. Second of all, clicking towns in your link shows that Portland has fallen off a cliff. Some others have spiked while others remain stagnant, but Portland is easily as bad as any of them. Of course, since Portland is so much larger and the biggest draw in the area, the dearth of construction hurts the region more.

Last of all, I'm not going to debate against a Progressive. I might as well debate against a garbage can because that's where most of the ideas come from, repeating past generational failures because "it wasn't done the right way" the prior times or some such nonsense. Also because any evidence to the contrary is just tossed in that same can and forever ignored. Personally, I don't care at all about IZ and just want to see more housing built to bring down overall market prices for the masses. IZ is an unfair lottery system that puts people making less money into better situations than the often better/harder workers promoted ahead of them. It keeps market rate inflated for the rest of us by the remaining units having to cover the losses from the IZ units, and from less housing being built overall.

 

[cneal]

View attachment 72824

Last of all, I'm not going to debate against a Progressive.

So, once again, this chart is showing something different from the charts in either of the previous posts. It's showing building permits, which lag actual housing completions by 1-2 years. There was a spike in 2022 partly because of a backlog of projects that were held up during the pandemic. Also important to note that this permitting data includes a lot of renovation permits, which don't actually add any housing supply and also aren't affected by IZ.

Look, I understand your feelings are hurt because you've been called out for re-posting bullshit from a New Yorker on twitter and now you feel dumb. Hey man, I've made similar mistakes too! In my experience you have a choice. One choice is to respond "oh yeah, thanks for that context, now I understand how that chart is kind of bullshit and I think I'm going to take down my previous post." And another choice is to double down and declare "I'm not going to debate against a Progressive" and go complain about how unfairly you've been treated with all the other snowflakes on X.com.

But if you want to make that second choice, then you're giving up and declaring failure. Complaining about how rude someone has been on the internet because they pointed out you're wrong is going to have absolutely no influence on how the adults in the real world make decisions.

Progressive politicians passed this IZ policy, and if you really don't like it, then you're going to need to engage in the debate honestly to try and convince them, instead of telling yourself fairy tales and feeling sorry for yourself.

 

[DZH22]

But if you want to make that second choice, then you're giving up and declaring failure. Complaining about how rude someone has been on the internet because they pointed out you're wrong is going to have absolutely no influence on how the adults in the real world make decisions.

My only failure is that I didn't block you the first time around. Consider that corrected.

 

[cneal]

It's a little hard to find, so here's the regional permitting numbers broken down by year and municipality from the GPCOG website:
https://www.greatmaineneighborhoods.org/housing-dashboard

Caveats: these numbers include renovations, which aren't affected by IZ, and they also include vacation homes, which may be why Bridgton's numbers are higher. Permits usually lag planning approvals by 1-2 years so a lot of these permits may be for projects that were approved before the strong IZ rules went into effect.

I generally prefer the City of Portland's housing dashboard, which combines their internal data on planning approvals with certificate-of-occupancy data for actual housing completions and AFAIK doesn't include renovations, but I find that this regional data confirms a) that Portland is building more housing than any of its neighbors and b) we'd be in better shape if other core cities like Westbrook and South Portland could legalize more housing to the extent that Portland has done.

 

[TC_zoid]

Irrespective of who is more correct in the aforementioned debate--and I think it's good that we are doing that--the irrefutable fact is that punishing a builder by telling them what they can and can not price units at is wrong. When I lived in LA a while back, I had a friend in Santa Monica with a nice apartment who was paying $640 per month for it. The other similar units around her were priced at $2,400! She had been there awhile and had no plans to leave (rent control). The landlord would play loud music as close to her as possible, and harass her with foul language whenever he saw her. If Portland becomes too expensive it's simply because of supply and demand. If you don't like the pricing, go live somewhere else or work harder to make more money.