Gillette Stadium

vanshnookenraggen

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I feel like people who propose football stadiums in cities don't get that this will make it HARDER to get to and sell tickets to the fans who actually go to these games. Urbanites can poo-poo driving but tailgating is a big thing for the people who actually give football teams their money. Baseball, basketball and hockey don't have that same ritual (as much) and are more adaptable for other, more urbane uses. Football stadiums are better suited for suburban outskirts.
 

jklo

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Kraft seemed more interested in building a smaller soccer only stadium too.
 

kingofsheeba

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I feel like people who propose football stadiums in cities don't get that this will make it HARDER to get to and sell tickets to the fans who actually go to these games. Urbanites can poo-poo driving but tailgating is a big thing for the people who actually give football teams their money. Baseball, basketball and hockey don't have that same ritual (as much) and are more adaptable for other, more urbane uses. Football stadiums are better suited for suburban outskirts.
Yeah but I feel like football is becoming less about tailgating and more about the spectacle. When my girlfriend and I went down into Gillette last season to see the Pats/Browns, there weren’t as many tailgates as one would imagine. In fact, most fans are in the bars around Patriot Place. The NFL is seemingly moving away from the tailgate demo
 

F-Line to Dudley

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Have we already forgotten what a black-hole ripoff the 90's Megaplex stadium proposal in the Seaport was on value recapture that this has once again become a zombie idea of plausible-deniability buzzworthiness?

I mean, I was never against the *immaculately* right-sized urban Revs stadium idea...if only because it was plausible to toe a line with a precision-targeted build disciplined enough to hit the mark and the odds weren't unrealistic of finding a developer pitch that met that narrow criteria.

But widening the scope back to multipurpose/multi-tenant sends it square back into buying into last-century's empty conventional wisdom platitudes about giant urban stadiums sans reality check. No half-regurgitation of the Megaplex idea can stand on its own without reconciling just how no-good bad awful a raw deal the Megaplex's financing and nakedly transparent wealth transfer was going to be in the real world. The multi-decade amortization and multi-decade value capture were apocryphally bad for Greater Boston (as bad or much worse than so many other cities who found out the hard way that urban-revival centerpiece stadiums are inherently rigged at distribution of spoils). Can't easily go back there in older/wiser 21st c. Boston without without starting it from ground zero with a toothy counterpoint about how the latest rehash is going to stake half its mission to avoiding every one of those pants-on-fire inequalities in the last take's value proposition.

As far as I'm concerned, leading with an NFL pitch is a DEFCON 1 warning shot given what's passed for unhinged NFL stadium dealmongering in Goodell's short commish tenure. So that's the absolute worst indicator for trying to pin an improved value capture on the pitch.
 

kingofsheeba

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Have we already forgotten what a black-hole ripoff the 90's Megaplex stadium proposal in the Seaport was on value recapture that this has once again become a zombie idea of plausible-deniability buzzworthiness?

I mean, I was never against the *immaculately* right-sized urban Revs stadium idea...if only because it was plausible to toe a line with a precision-targeted build disciplined enough to hit the mark and the odds weren't unrealistic of finding a developer pitch that met that narrow criteria.

But widening the scope back to multipurpose/multi-tenant sends it square back into buying into last-century's empty conventional wisdom platitudes about giant urban stadiums sans reality check. No half-regurgitation of the Megaplex idea can stand on its own without reconciling just how no-good bad awful a raw deal the Megaplex's financing and nakedly transparent wealth transfer was going to be in the real world. The multi-decade amortization and multi-decade value capture were apocryphally bad for Greater Boston (as bad or much worse than so many other cities who found out the hard way that urban-revival centerpiece stadiums are inherently rigged at distribution of spoils). Can't easily go back there in older/wiser 21st c. Boston without without starting it from ground zero with a toothy counterpoint about how the latest rehash is going to stake half its mission to avoiding every one of those pants-on-fire inequalities in the last take's value proposition.

As far as I'm concerned, leading with an NFL pitch is a DEFCON 1 warning shot given what's passed for unhinged NFL stadium dealmongering in Goodell's short commish tenure. So that's the absolute worst indicator for trying to pin an improved value capture on the pitch.
At least you’re open minded about this
 

bolehboleh

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You had me until you said this: "boo hoo tailgaters,"

Sure, having the option of going to a bar before a game would be a lot of fun, but football is the most fun when you can tailgate before and after the game. By taking away our ability to cook ribs, drink beer, and play tag football with each other before the game, you've actually sucked some of the joy out of the whole experience.

Let's be frank - even stadiums located in cities still have large parking lots so people can enjoy themselves in the parking lots. Let's not take that away from Patriots fans.

However, if you wanted to put a Revs stadium there, I think you might get my support.
 
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George_Apley

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I just don't get this area being a good spot for an urban football stadium. It's barely big enough for a football stadium's footprint alone let alone anything else that tends to come with a stadium. Urban stadiums are usually surrounded by ample parking lots. A stadium here would eat up all the available land and then some.
 

kingofsheeba

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I just don't get this area being a good spot for an urban football stadium. It's barely big enough for a football stadium's footprint alone let alone anything else that tends to come with a stadium. Urban stadiums are usually surrounded by ample parking lots. A stadium here would eat up all the available land and then some.
Better than bland high end condos
 

Charlie_mta

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The Nashua Street location for a stadium (as shown previously) would wipe out Nashua Street. That's not doable, because it provides the only west bound route from the West End to Obrien Highway. All that would remain is the one-way eastbound Martha Street. Add to that the encroachment into the Charles River, the 4F taking of park land, and relocating and building a new Suffolk County Jail, it all makes this is an infeasible location.
 

theSil

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Am I the only person who attends NFL games, but never tailgates? Sure it's popular, but I'm not sure it can be considered so inseparable from the act of watching football that urban stadiums never make sense
 

Stlin

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What do people do then at those urban stadiums with extremely limited adjacent surface parking, like US Bank in Minneapolis, or MB stadium in Atlanta? Clearly these urban stadiums aren't catering to the same volume of tailgaters the same way any suburban stadium is. I'd love to see any data, but I kinda doubt it was studied in detail. Either way, I'm of the opinion that while a stadium with zero parking is likely impossible, severely constrained parking is ok, or even distant/shared parking. Say... Sharing lots or garages with the convention center, which tend to serve a workday crowd.
 
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bolehboleh

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I might soften my stance on tailgating and support it in this location if they open up Canal Street to pedestrians only, with outdoor cooking and public drinking allowed.
 

HenryAlan

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Maybe I'm missing something, but why would Robert Kraft ever want to do any of this?
He wouldn't. He already has a successful business model with the Foxborough location. He consistently fills the stadium and has complete control over abutting amenities. He has zero incentive to move, especially when Gillette still has life in it. When it's time to build a new facility, he builds it in the parking lot for a hell of a lot less money than a shoe horned North Station location that provides more limited future earnings.
 

Ruairi

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New England Revolution would likely be able to sell out an NFL-scaled stadium from this location.
eeh... I love soccer but the Revs aren't filling a 65k stadium any time soon!
That said, this could be a good site for a 25k soccer specific stadium that could host college football and concerts. Design it with the ability to temporarily extend capacity to host the 2026 world cup.
 

mass88

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eeh... I love soccer but the Revs aren't filling a 65k stadium any time soon!
That said, this could be a good site for a 25k soccer specific stadium that could host college football and concerts. Design it with the ability to temporarily extend capacity to host the 2026 world cup.
No MLS team, even with their very reasonable ticket prices, could sell out an NFL sized stadium, or really come close.
 

JumboBuc

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No MLS team, even with their very reasonable ticket prices, could sell out an NFL sized stadium, or really come close.
I hear you, but Atlanta United FC does actually come pretty close (53k per game).

But yeah, a smaller MLB-sized stadium would be better for the Revs than an NFL-sized one.
 

HenryAlan

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I thought Sounders FC in Seattle was also able to essentially fill a football stadium. Just the same, even though one or two teams might do it, we should not expect that as a general rule. A soccer specific 20k to 25k sized facility would be perfect for the Revolution, but even that seems like it would really be a struggle to fit in this proposed location. There are other places in the city that would work. Right now, my favorite spot would be the location across from the BPD headquarters, now that the mall/museum/apartment development has fallen through. Northeastern could use it, too, and it's right on the Orange Line.
 

mass88

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I thought Sounders FC in Seattle was also able to essentially fill a football stadium. Just the same, even though one or two teams might do it, we should not expect that as a general rule. A soccer specific 20k to 25k sized facility would be perfect for the Revolution, but even that seems like it would really be a struggle to fit in this proposed location. There are other places in the city that would work. Right now, my favorite spot would be the location across from the BPD headquarters, now that the mall/museum/apartment development has fallen through. Northeastern could use it, too, and it's right on the Orange Line.
Based on 2019 average attendance numbers, the Seattle Sounders averaged 40k fans (impressive for the MLS). Lumen Field (their home ground) has a capacity of 68,740.

If the Revs ever get their own stadium, it should be built with a capacity of 30k, with the ability to expand it to 38-40k (a capacity that will be very attractive to the National Team to host friendlies and qualifying games). One key is to make sure they have roof coverings like Red Bull down in Harrison does. If they ever want to have a European soccer style atmosphere, they'll need to roof coverings.
 

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