Harbor Garage Redevelopment Pontificating | Waterfront

Status
Not open for further replies.

lapradetom

Active Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2015
Messages
296
Reaction score
5
I really do not see how a group of people living in two forty story towers, directly on the waterfront, have the gall to argue against neighboring development. If they succeed in stopping Chiofaro, I hope he succeeds by taking away their parking options. Cause and effect in action, or perhaps "Karma" would sum it up even better. Better yet, if it is "illegal" to build this, then it was also illegal to build Harbor Towers, take them by eminent domain and tear them down to reopen the waterfront.
 

rjacobs

New member
Joined
Feb 3, 2016
Messages
94
Reaction score
1
stellarfun:

The garage currently blocks no public access to the waterfront. The harbor walk runs along the east side of the garage.

The IMAX is not part of the parcel of land that Chiofaro owns. In Chiofaro's sketched site plan, the garage entrance is part of the 50 percent open space, and the IMAX would, in the future, block a view of the harbor from the Greenway.


The IMAX, as part of the BLUE WAY, is going to be moved. This has been discussed before. The point of 'access to the waterfront' is to finally create an opportunity for the Greenway to be visually and semi-organically connected to the Ocean (or as organically as can be acheived with a road running right through it).
 

odurandina

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2015
Messages
5,072
Reaction score
106
The tower will reach 52~53% of the lot space. Can't build it for less than 52~53% lot space. They shitcan the IMAX (put it on Mars for all we care)... Then, by adding that (IMAX) land to the property, 50% lot space can be achieved. ......Is this jerking the LAW around? NO. That would be the CLF/for profit org and the Harbor Towers crowd keeping an ugly Garage there another half century.
The only think jerking around Boston has been a process with it's thumb on the scale, and by IAG's that don't represent the interests of Boston.

Fuck the CLF:
The people of Boston should issue a challenge to the CLF, how after naming themselves the chosen protectors (of God knows what), they'll promise not to shake down Chiofaro for one dime, including legal fees, or any type of (legalized extortion masquerading as executive job creation), or shaking down Chiofaro in any way that threatens the viability of the project, then accepting closed door settlement/s laying claim as legitimate. .....How such corruption and extortion can be repackaged as legal, and be accepted by court authorities is fantastic.
 

stellarfun

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 28, 2006
Messages
4,771
Reaction score
67
With respect to Rover's point about Chiofaro making money hand over fist from the garage, below is the revenue and expense summary for the Common garage last year. This garage has 1350 spaces.

Common garage operating revenues were $11.9 million, operating expenses were $5.1 million. Average revenue per space was $23 a day, 365 days a year. 'Profit' was $6.8 million. That is making money hand over fist.

Assuming that Chiofaro's similarly sized garage also generates around $12 million a year in operating revenue, his expenses are higher. He is paying $3 million in property taxes that the Common garage doesn't pay. He is also paying interest on the financing note. The last note for which there was public information was for $120 million or so, IIRC. (This was the second five year note; the amount lent for the second note was $5 million more than the first note in 2007.) $120 million at 4 percent annual interest is an annual interest payment of $4.8 million, with no payment of principal. The Common garage apparently incurs no expense for financing; i.e., its already paid for.

Where the Common garage generates $6.8 million in profit, Chiofaro's garage, because of property taxes and interest payments, would lose money even with $12 million in operating revenue. True, the Harbor garage generates some income from the lease of the retail space, but x number of spaces in the Harbor garage are set aside, through an easement, for the condo owners at HT, i.e., these HT residents have a property right to those spaces until the easement expires (around 2020 or 2021, IIRC). The number of units in HT is apparently over 600. If half these units have a space in the garage, that is 300 spaces for which he is getting less than $23 a day. His retail income is likely offset by the discounted cost to HT residents for their spaces in the garage.
 

atlantaden

Senior Member
Joined
May 31, 2006
Messages
2,063
Reaction score
39
True, the Harbor garage generates some income from the lease of the retail space, but x number of spaces in the Harbor garage are set aside, through an easement, for the condo owners at HT, i.e., these HT residents have a property right to those spaces until the easement expires (around 2020 or 2021, IIRC). The number of units in HT is apparently over 600.

Time is running out for the residents of Harbor Towers who park their cars in Chiofaro's garage (as well as HT HVAC which I understand from all the discussion here, are also located in the garage). I have a strange feeling that their parking rates and use of Chiofaro's garage are about to change, and not for the better for the residents of Harbor Towers.
 

Rover

Active Member
Joined
Nov 10, 2016
Messages
763
Reaction score
57
With respect to Rover's point about Chiofaro making money hand over fist from the garage, below is the revenue and expense summary for the Common garage last year. This garage has 1350 spaces.

Common garage operating revenues were $11.9 million, operating expenses were $5.1 million. Average revenue per space was $23 a day, 365 days a year. 'Profit' was $6.8 million. That is making money hand over fist.

Assuming that Chiofaro's similarly sized garage also generates around $12 million a year in operating revenue, his expenses are higher. He is paying $3 million in property taxes that the Common garage doesn't pay. He is also paying interest on the financing note. The last note for which there was public information was for $120 million or so, IIRC. (This was the second five year note; the amount lent for the second note was $5 million more than the first note in 2007.) $120 million at 4 percent annual interest is an annual interest payment of $4.8 million, with no payment of principal. The Common garage apparently incurs no expense for financing; i.e., its already paid for.

Where the Common garage generates $6.8 million in profit, Chiofaro's garage, because of property taxes and interest payments, would lose money even with $12 million in operating revenue. True, the Harbor garage generates some income from the lease of the retail space, but x number of spaces in the Harbor garage are set aside, through an easement, for the condo owners at HT, i.e., these HT residents have a property right to those spaces until the easement expires (around 2020 or 2021, IIRC). The number of units in HT is apparently over 600. If half these units have a space in the garage, that is 300 spaces for which he is getting less than $23 a day. His retail income is likely offset by the discounted cost to HT residents for their spaces in the garage.
From our discussion last year, using your #'s... (page 52 of What's Happening to Project X)



You have Boston Common garage at similar spaces so are using their revenue as a proxy. Great, but a quick look at parkopedia shows that for 2 hours HT garage averaging $39 while Common is $18. Now that doesn't mean we should double the revenue estimate here but your assessment seems way off right off the bat. But lets be extremely conservative and say that he's pulling in 13M in revenue - $5.1 in operating expense - $3.8 in financing costs - $2.9 in property taxes. That means he's pulling down over a million bucks a year in pure profit, AND the value of the property has gone up since he purchased it. How exactly did he overpay again, because I'm a little confused on that point using your own estimates. :confused:

I find it hard to believe with more expensive parking PLUS retail rent he's not pulling in quite a bit more than the Common garage. I personally don't understand what's behind your dispute with Don but you do need to tell the truth and not fudge #'s. A couple of million a year is money I would gladly take!
 

George_Apley

Not a Brahmin
Staff member
Joined
Jan 22, 2012
Messages
4,118
Reaction score
398
Time is running out for the residents of Harbor Towers who park their cars in Chiofaro's garage (as well as HT HVAC which I understand from all the discussion here, are also located in the garage). I have a strange feeling that their parking rates and use of Chiofaro's garage are about to change, and not for the better for the residents of Harbor Towers.
This is good point. Are the HT residents in a long-term contract for parking rates? If so, what are the terms of the contract? Theoretically Chiofaro could just price gouge them out of spite.
 

kmp1284

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2006
Messages
1,882
Reaction score
29
I hope he does. 0% discount. They deserve what's coming to them after years of obstruction.
The optics of doing that would be horrible for Chiofaro. This isn’t some posh complex for the ultra wealthy, rather it’s largely populated by older folks of more modest means.
 

HalcyonEra

Active Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2012
Messages
406
Reaction score
0
The optics of doing that would be horrible for Chiofaro. This isn’t some posh complex for the ultra wealthy, rather it’s largely populated by older folks of more modest means.
I know it was originally, but I know three separate couples who live there, and although they are all very different from one another and do not know each other (or at least I don't think they do) they are the biggest 1%er A-holes you will ever encounter.
 

whighlander

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2006
Messages
6,991
Reaction score
166
Louis Brandeis was never a judge in Massachusetts. His legal philosophy was to side with the 'people'. While Justice Brandeis is long dead and I certainly can't speak for him, his philosophy was such that he probably would have sided with the CLF over the Commonwealth and a big real estate developer in this particular case.

As for the cynical views expressed, there is already one Donald trumpeting the 'art of the deal' and positing that the laws don't apply to him --not that the local Donald has said he is above the law. But let's not metastasize the other Donald's approach to doing business to Massachusetts.
___________________________
The developer has revealed no recent renderings, and the most recent renderings were of the garage entrance and the 'open space', and little else.
__________________________
It should also be understood that Chiofaro is not a deep-pocketed developer. He filed for bankruptcy on International Place in 2004, a result forced on him by Tishman Speyer, his so-called 'pirates from Gotham' who held the mortgage. Tishman Speyer said at the time he had no equity in IP. Post bankruptcy, his ownership stake in IP was cut from 40 percent to 10 percent. As he brings little skin to the game, whomever finances the replacement 'tower' for the garage is going to dictate what is built there. And that assumes he finds a financing partner(s). And to paraphrase, 'Deutsche Bank has left the building'.
Stellar --- OK you win the Brandeis point -- Holmes was my real example -- but no matter
As for the comments about deals and Massachusetts -- the Art of the Deal as currently written is missing a lot if it doesn't give due respect to Massachussetts and deals

Just a few examples:
Google Gerymander -- we have made the transition from an expression associated with Gov. Elbridge Gerry circaa 1812 to a Noun in common usage


Isabella Stewart Gardner arranged to have her Beacon Street address retired from usage after she moved on to the "Palace on the Fens"

The original 150 and 152 Beacon St as the Gardner's acquired it



152 Beacon St as the Gardner’s left it







the "New 150 Beacon St." Today



Lux look: Two-time governor's mansion, and onetime Isabella Stewart Gardner home, is on the market
By Catherine Carlock – Real Estate Editor, Boston Business Journal
Nov 18, 2018, 7:24am EST
A Beaux-Arts-style home on Beacon Street that was designed by Alexander Wadsworth Longfellow Jr. and home to two Massachusetts governors — not to mention the onetime residence of famed art collector Isabella Stewart Gardner — is on the market for $6.495 million.
though of course it -- really was never Isabella's house -- there was just a bit of an overlap -- as the story finally relates the "Deal"
As a “front to back” unit, the property has views of both Beacon Street as well as Charles River and Cambridge.

Gardner was the only resident to live at 152 Beacon St. in 1860 prior to moving to Boston’s Fenway neighborhood.

“When she moved to the Fenway Court ‘Palace’ in 1902, she stipulated that ‘her’ number — 152 — never again be used on Beacon Street,” Donahue said in an email. “So the current 150 Beacon St. address, which encompasses both lots for 150 and 152 Beacon St., upholds ISG’s edict.”

And of course lest one think that the Massachusetts Art of the Deal has been lost to the 19th Century -- we have the "moving fire hydrant"

John Forbes Kerry acquired a new wife [widow of John's fellow Senator John Heinz of PA] with a lot of money -- he and she decided to acquire a nice place on Beacon Hill as befitted a Senator from MA and a scion of the Forbes family [on John's mother's side] -- they bought a nice old house #19 in the uber-exclusive Private Compound of Louisburg Square with its own private park in the center of the square maintained by the Louisburg Square Proprietors. The house needed some reno work as it had most recently been an Episcopal Church Convent. Everything was perfect for the almost newly weds except that just in front of the house the city had at sometime in the past installed a Fire Hydrant - -with the requisite accompanying "No Parking at Anytime -- Tow Zone" sign. Well the Senator called upon some of his connections and arranged his "Fire Hydrant Deal" -- the City ended up moving the hydrant around the corner -- still next to John's house but on a side street [Pinckney St.]




If you look closely -- right next to the elegant Beacon Hill Streetlight you can see new brickwork placed over the hole occupied by the hydrant in its old location -- Now that is a "Deal"

I doubt that da Don has that kind of pull -- but I'm still betting on him at a "near-600-footer" on the harbor
 

stellarfun

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 28, 2006
Messages
4,771
Reaction score
67
This is good point. Are the HT residents in a long-term contract for parking rates? If so, what are the terms of the contract? Theoretically Chiofaro could just price gouge them out of spite.
The HT garage was designed and built coincident with the HT towers. HT residents were given an easement, probably for 50 years, that gave them a property 'right' to a parking space in the garage. The 50 year easement likely ends in 2021. (HT opened in 1972). I have never read a reference on how many spaces were conveyed to HT residents by the easement, nor how much residents annually pay the owner of the garage. I suspect the fee amount is much more representative of condo common charges than market rate parking; i.e., the cost is cheap, or even very cheap, because they 'own' the space where they park their car.

HT residents hold another easement on the garage property. This space is for their mechanicals, and apparently some of their HVAC. This easement is in perpetuity. Which means unless HT residents agree to move their mechanicals and utilities out of the garage, Chiofaro can't build his tower. In the Boston magazine article from last year, I got a sense that the residents know that, and Chiofaro knows that. The article conveys a sense that the conversations between HT residents and Chiofaro are quite amicable.

In 2009, Chiofaro filed an ENF with the state. It can be found here:

In the ENF, Chiofaro flatly states he cannot comply with Chapter 91, --which is like waving the red cape in front of the bull. Ian Bowles, then the Massachusetts Environment Secretary, summarily rejected the ENF. Bowles' rejection letter was nearly 3x the length of the ENF. I distinctly remember Bowles faulting Chiofaro for not discussing the HT residents' easements in the garage property. (I can't readily find an on-line copy of Bowles' letter.)
 

Johnnyrocket891

New member
Joined
Jul 1, 2019
Messages
31
Reaction score
10
The Garage is the best option for the public?:oops:

We can all be grateful it doesn't block public access to the waterfront-- I guess.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top