Housing and the Middle Class in Boston

[Arborway]

Why don't you just stay here and work really hard at trying to make things better?

Staying here is the problem. Housing in Boston is far too expensive for college grads. Every new development is low-to-mid density upscale apartments and condos. The middle class has been completely ignored by developers and the Mayor. A half dozen token affordable housing units in the latest apartment or condo building are scraps to fight over, not a future.

The cost of housing in older buildings is inflated by the sheer number of college students who have no choice but to take out loans to pay living expenses as well as tuition. Landlords take advantage of this somewhat flexible money supply at the expense of their tenants, and the market as a whole.

As far as work is concerned, there just aren't a lot of films being made in Boston this year, and it's not clear when that's going to change.

Of course, the film industry is big in cities like LA and NYC that tend to have a high cost of living, but this is offset by the fact there are many more jobs there.

 

[TheRifleman]

Re: South Boston Seaport

Staying here is the problem. Housing in Boston is far too expensive for college grads. Every new development is low-to-mid density upscale apartments and condos. The middle class has been completely ignored by developers and the Mayor. A half dozen token affordable housing units in the latest apartment or condo building are scraps to fight over, not a future.

The cost of housing in older buildings is inflated by the sheer number of college students who have no choice but to take out loans to pay living expenses as well as tuition. Landlords take advantage of this somewhat flexible money supply at the expense of their tenants, and the market as a whole.

As far as work is concerned, there just aren't a lot of films being made in Boston this year, and it's not clear when that's going to change.

Of course, the film industry is big in cities like LA and NYC that tend to have a high cost of living, but this is offset by the fact there are many more jobs there.

Sorry pal the Developers don't care about the middle class. They are in the business of making money. The middle class have sold out of Boston in the late 90's. The only people that are left is
1 College kids (They are usually in and out)
2 Poor People (Because they can't get out of their own way)
3 Very wealthy People

Most of Boston's industry these days are the colleges & Hospitals.
Middle class really can't afford to live in Boston anymore.
This is why Menino continues to get elected. Nobody with a brain actually votes in the city of Boston.

 

[KentXie]

Re: South Boston Seaport

I remember when I was arguing with DudeUrSistersHot or w/e about how Boston needs more affordable housing (and I mean real affordable housing that tends to te low to lower-middle class, not the upper middle class) and he told me that and increase in supply of condo will lower prices until they are affordable. Yes, prices did drop, but still not at the level where it is affordable.

 

[sidewalks]

Re: South Boston Seaport

^sure they did...you want affordable housing? Go to Dorchester and pick up a bank owned condo (renovated) for $65k.

 

[kennedy]

Re: South Boston Seaport

It's really too bad Seaport Square isn't being conceived as a middle-middle-class development. It would do wonders in terms of attracting people to the area. The majority of the population is considered middle class, no? Why not cater to them? Also, the private school idea isn't bad - if only it weren't meant for executives' children (that wouldn't work - they'll all go to St. Georges, Deerfield, P.A., etc.) Menino can't get his shit school system together, why is he criticizing other peoples plans to improve education?

 

[HenryAlan]

Re: South Boston Seaport

Sorry pal the Developers don't care about the middle class. They are in the business of making money. The middle class have sold out of Boston in the late 90's. The only people that are left is
1 College kids (They are usually in and out)
2 Poor People (Because they can't get out of their own way)
3 Very wealthy People

[snip]

Oh, bullshit! There is plenty of viable middle class housing in Boston, you just need to look in the right places. Roslindale, West Roxbury, Dorchester, Hyde Park, all have lots of quality housing in attractive/safe neighborhoods for decidedly middle class rates. The problem is that such places aren't promoted enough, so you get people thinking "I can't afford a condo at the W, so I'll have to move out of Boston."

 

[AdamBC]

Re: South Boston Seaport

Oh, bullshit! There is plenty of viable middle class housing in Boston, you just need to look in the right places. Roslindale, West Roxbury, Dorchester, Hyde Park, all have lots of quality housing in attractive/safe neighborhoods for decidedly middle class rates. The problem is that such places aren't promoted enough, so you get people thinking "I can't afford a condo at the W, so I'll have to move out of Boston."

I consider myself to be representative of who the area wants to keep. I came to Boston because of college, I got a job making ~40K after graduation. Yet I would never consider those areas. I have no desire to ride the Orange Line to work, and much of that area is a hike to reliable public transit (the buses are a joke as you can wait 25 minutes for 3 buses to show up at once, and they run even more sporadically on the weekends). I refuse to pay $350K for a basement condo, so my only option (and where my friends seem to be buying) is out past 128. The numbers work out that a mortgage + property tax + expenses >>> renting in Boston. It makes no financial sense considering how costly it is to buy in a place where my friends will willingly visit me.

Sure, if you grew up in Boston, or read these boards you know that it's fine to live in big swaths of those neighborhoods, but that's not who makes up most of the young professionals who are being 'priced out' of Boston.

 

[statler]

Re: South Boston Seaport

Where do you plan to move to?

 

[Lurker]

Re: South Boston Seaport

"I refuse to pay $350K for a basement condo"

You can buy a 2 bedroom in Riverway/West Fenway/Mission Hill/Alston/Brighton/Brookline for (less than) that which isn't in a basement. All areas close to public transit. Studios are going for 165-185k and 1 BRS in the low to mid 250s. Sure the square footage is small by 'modern' standards, but the layouts are typically better and quite honestly the square footage for 'modern' construction is grossly over-scaled.


As far as affordable housing:
It doesn't help that the BRA and Mayor's office stall every residential development to a snails pace. No developer wants to take the risk on a lower profit margin non-'luxury' project for the middle class when the market forecasts are neigh impossible with such uncertain long term timetables.

Smaller developers generally aren't allowed to play the game because of the patronage system either. That limits the game to the big boys whom generally don't have to give a rats ass what neighborhood demographics want due to their available capital and political influence.

There is/wasn't enough being built/renovated to meet the demand and drive prices down. That'll never with the current cumbersome and corrupt system in place.

 

[HenryAlan]

Re: South Boston Seaport

I consider myself to be representative of who the area wants to keep. I came to Boston because of college, I got a job making ~40K after graduation. Yet I would never consider those areas. I have no desire to ride the Orange Line to work, and much of that area is a hike to reliable public transit (the buses are a joke as you can wait 25 minutes for 3 buses to show up at once, and they run even more sporadically on the weekends). I refuse to pay $350K for a basement condo, so my only option (and where my friends seem to be buying) is out past 128. The numbers work out that a mortgage + property tax + expenses >>> renting in Boston. It makes no financial sense considering how costly it is to buy in a place where my friends will willingly visit me.

Sure, if you grew up in Boston, or read these boards you know that it's fine to live in big swaths of those neighborhoods, but that's not who makes up most of the young professionals who are being 'priced out' of Boston.

See the bold? That's mostly based on disinformation. That's my point about the areas not being promoted well.

The Orange Line during rush hour is mostly filled with professionals, not gangbangers. I never wait more than 10 minutes for a bus even during off-peak (due to route redundancy), and if you can read a schedule and follow it, commuter rail makes it easy enough to avoid buses all together. As for $350K, well, The Lurker addressed that in places that don't even require the dreaded Orange Line, but if you can stomach 15 minutes on it, you'll find an area where $350k will buy you a small house with a yard for your dog.

 

[TheRifleman]

Re: South Boston Seaport

Oh, bullshit! There is plenty of viable middle class housing in Boston, you just need to look in the right places. Roslindale, West Roxbury, Dorchester, Hyde Park, all have lots of quality housing in attractive/safe neighborhoods for decidedly middle class rates. The problem is that such places aren't promoted enough, so you get people thinking "I can't afford a condo at the W, so I'll have to move out of Boston."

LOL.....I'm sure those are nice areas. I also know nice areas in Chelesa, East Boston, Everett, Malden, Revere, Medford, Quincy. But when you work your ass off and graduate at one of the top tier schools in the city I think most kids are more ambitious to live near closer to the city or to a much more younger hip vibe.

The graduates that I know all want to live in either Somerville, Cambridge, Allston, Beacon Hill, Backbay, North End. That is why those areas are so expensive.

It's all about location. Just like NYC

 

[portnorfolk]

I'm speaking for the younger, middle class.

I feel the desire to live in a primo location (s.end, n.end, back bay, davis sq, cambridge) is built around the fact that the city won't be experienced if you live further out, thus this big demand for primo location.

For instance, last week one of my best friends (age 26) closed on his 1 bed 400 sq condo in the south end (columbus st) for 350k. its so unbelievably small its rediculous. But he's always wanted to live there and its a great location for everything boston offers.

However, I myself have joined the other swaths of twenty-something gays who've migrated to DOT for space. I live in a 3 bed victorian condo, 1200sq plus, in a great neighborhood with easy access everywhere and pay half of what his mortgage is. I have ample amounts of free parking, access to a huge park, view of the city and live in a safe and quiet area. For me, I can sacrifice the 15 min it gets takes me to get to the hussle and bussle of the city. There are other neighborhoods like this as well (savin hill , jones hill). However, I loose out on the great restaurants and shops at my immediate disposal. But I can have parties and people over regularly at my house with any hassle. Its a trade off I guess.

For me, the city is not so big that I loose out on the experience that my friend feels he needs to pay for. Plus I work downtown and can just do my thing after work anyways.

So I guess my point is, there are options other than living outside 128 or paying a $1000/sqft. but its all give and take.

 

[Shepard]

^ There's also the possibility of high-end units in low-end areas. Recently we've seen some of the latter, e.g. the lofts in Dorchester. I don't want to start a discussion about whether those developments are beneficial to the communities they're plopped into, but I think they do represent another means of attracting a cohesive middle class to transit-oriented urban areas.

 

[portnorfolk]

^ There's also the possibility of high-end units in low-end areas. Recently we've seen some of the latter, e.g. the lofts in Dorchester. I don't want to start a discussion about whether those developments are beneficial to the communities they're plopped into, but I think they do represent another means of attracting a cohesive middle class to transit-oriented urban areas.

I have friends in the Carruth. its an interesting concept.

 

[czsz]

I don't get why young professionals who work downtown choose to live in Somerville over Dorchester or Roxbury. They all have the same crappy wooden triple-decker architecture and relatively annoying commutes. Sure, there's the inertia of gentrification, but I would have thought more pioneers would have spilled over from Boston proper or (especially) Longwood.

 

[bdurden]

Roxbury and much of Dorchester are still conceived as dangerous. They are also not as well connected, through both mass transit and private alternatives like MASCO and LMA shuttles, to Longwood as JP, Brookline, Cambridge, Somerville, etc.

 

[czsz]

There's not a single T stop in Somerville (right now, at least) other than Davis, so it's hard to see it as being so well connected.

 

[Lurker]

A 400SF studio is tiny? The layout must be horrible if 400SF for one person or a couple without children seems tiny.

The perception of many grads about Roxbury (excluding JP/the LMA/Mission Hill, which most of them don't seem to understand are part of Roxbury) and Dorchester is that the neighborhoods are either unsafe or unwelcoming to newcomers. While that is true to some extent within the sub-neighborhoods of Roxbury/Dorchester, it isn't true of the whole yet the perception remains.

If the sub-neighborhoods within Roxbury/Dorchester had their individual identities promoted such that they were as every bit as well known as Porter/Union/Davis square I'm sure they'd be full of grads. This is of course assuming the sub-neighborhoods openly accepted the newcomers.

 

[bbfen]

Re: South Boston Seaport

Oh, bullshit! There is plenty of viable middle class housing in Boston, you just need to look in the right places. Roslindale, West Roxbury, Dorchester, Hyde Park, all have lots of quality housing in attractive/safe neighborhoods for decidedly middle class rates. The problem is that such places aren't promoted enough, so you get people thinking "I can't afford a condo at the W, so I'll have to move out of Boston."

I think what you're missing is that, if you went to NEU, WIT, BU, et al, the places you mentioned ARE out of Boston...... that is, they're not the Fenway/Back Bay/top of the Hill/Comm Ave and appear to be that way. And when you're 25, trying to make monthly costs and still party until last call weekends, why not move to another city for less money and live in the middle of it all?

 

[bdurden]

There's not a single T stop in Somerville (right now, at least) other than Davis, so it's hard to see it as being so well connected.

Somerville has been feeding of the transit nodes in Cambridge for decades.