Housing (Supply Crisis & Public Policy)

[Rover]

Again, just my observation but I think policymakers and the average citizen's perception of population growth way underestimates reality. Most people I'd bet think Mass hit peak population like 50 years ago. In reality over the century give or take the population has steadily increased by 1M people every 30 years. so 4M in 1930 to 5M in 1960 to 6M in 1990 to 7M by 2020. Yet the state land area isn't getting any bigger so you do the math.

 

[jklo]

Boston is gaining about 8K a year in population. That means prices will continue to spiral upwards despite a big change in policy (moving to 20% affordable units required to be on site). Conclusion: only better transit to cheaper places will help alleviate the problem. The rest is a drop in the bucket.

Problem with more affordable units is that it makes getting what you need to make the market rate units work that much worse.

 

[jklo]

Again, just my observation but I think policymakers and the average citizen's perception of population growth way underestimates reality. Most people I'd bet think Mass hit peak population like 50 years ago. In reality over the century give or take the population has steadily increased by 1M people every 30 years. so 4M in 1930 to 5M in 1960 to 6M in 1990 to 7M by 2020. Yet the state land area isn't getting any bigger so you do the math.

The population of the state as a whole might not be growing that much, but the inner core is growing rapidly now because of the Post-2008 need to live in an area where it's feasible to live carless. Cape Cod and Western Mass will be depopulated in due time.

 

[George_Apley]

Again, just my observation but I think policymakers and the average citizen's perception of population growth way underestimates reality. Most people I'd bet think Mass hit peak population like 50 years ago. In reality over the century give or take the population has steadily increased by 1M people every 30 years. so 4M in 1930 to 5M in 1960 to 6M in 1990 to 7M by 2020. Yet the state land area isn't getting any bigger so you do the math.

As I move deeper into adulthood (early-30s) and interact with more (older) adults, I've realized that many people lock in their perception of "how the world works" based on how they perceive it worked in their own early adulthood. Obviously this is massive generalization, but it underlies a lot of social perception issues, such as housing & population, crime rates, the economy, and the "generation wars" that the media loves to play up.

 

[dshoost88]

So in the vain of "Housing", I'm happy to share that my East Boston condo has hit the market! Please share with your friends and any interested buyers--I'm happy to answer any questions about the place!

21 Lamson Street #2, Boston, MA 02128

^Check out the Virtual Tour in the link!

 

[Johnnyrocket891]

The population of the state as a whole might not be growing that much, but the inner core is growing rapidly now because of the Post-2008 need to live in an area where it's feasible to live carless. Cape Cod and Western Mass will be depopulated in due time.

Why not offer transit solutions that are accessible to Cape Cod and Western Mass if you believe they will depopulate overtime?
This will only help for housing affordability throughout the state. Massachusetts resources should be truly focused on transit solutions.

 

[George_Apley]

Why not offer transit solutions that are accessible to Cape Cod and Western Mass if you believe they will depopulate overtime?
This will only help for housing affordability throughout the state. Massachusetts resources should be truly focused on transit solutions.

Exactly. Our transit solutions should make more parts of MA/New England attractive to residents who want easy access to the city. As a side-effect, fast and easy connections between Boston and the Gateway Cities (and between the Gateways themselves) will make those satellite cities more attractive employment centers, revitalizing those communities, which could help spread out that population growth rather than it concentrating in Boston/Cambridge/Somerville.

As an aside, the Cape has bigger problems than transportation. Erosion is a constant issue that will only get worse, but potable water is the biggest issue affecting the long-term prospects on the Cape.

 

[stick n move]

Woonsocket would be a phenominal spot to add a stop... seeing that the rails of the forge park line already go there, just not used. Woonsocket is a fairly large small city, has TONS of good quality housing that is the cheapest of anywhere around, and is as close as it gets while being in RI...closer than Worcester. I cant think of a better city to expand to seeing how cheap it is, its proximity, and the rails already go there.

 

[jklo]

Why not offer transit solutions that are accessible to Cape Cod and Western Mass if you believe they will depopulate overtime?
This will only help for housing affordability throughout the state. Massachusetts resources should be truly focused on transit solutions.

Because it's unrealistic to think that many people (with some means) would be willing to put up with living that far if all the non-crappy jobs are in Boston/Cambridge, and it'd be logistically hard to live there without a car. There's a limit to where people would just say they would be better off in some other part of the country.

 

[Rover]

Woonsocket would be a phenominal spot to add a stop... seeing that the rails of the forge park line already go there, just not used. Woonsocket is a fairly large small city, has TONS of good quality housing that is the cheapest of anywhere around, and is as close as it gets while being in RI...closer than Worcester. I cant think of a better city to expand to seeing how cheap it is, its proximity, and the rails already go there.

Nobody wants to live in Rhode Island. Budget is a mess, schools are in shambles and its taken forever to regain job losses from great recession. You can run transit there all day but aside from Newport what does RI give you that Worcester doesn't?

 

[fattony]

Conclusion: only better transit to cheaper places will help alleviate the problem. The rest is a drop in the bucket.

I strongly disagree. Building more /denser housing is objectively cheaper and faster than building more transit. I can't even fathom how you could conclude that the opposite is true.

That isn't to say we should ignore extending transit, but that only works in conjunction with densifying the places that transit goes. You can't build a transit line to some "cheaper place" if that place doesn't have the density to feed the transit line.

 

[Johnnyrocket891]

Nobody wants to live in Rhode Island. Budget is a mess, schools are in shambles and its taken forever to regain job losses from great recession. You can run transit there all day but aside from Newport what does RI give you that Worcester doesn't?

If I could live in RI or Worcester paying $1000 a month in rent for 3 bedrooms vs paying $3000 in Boston along with having access to get to into Boston by transit 5-10mins. I would have no problem living in RI or Worcester with that type of accessibility.

 

[Rover]

If I could live in RI or Worcester paying $1000 a month in rent for 3 bedrooms vs paying $3000 in Boston along with having access to get to into Boston by transit 5-10mins. I would have no problem living in RI or Worcester with that type of accessibility.

I hear ya but Rhode Island needs to pony up as its not Massachusetts' problem that their citizens don't have access to transit. This state has put a lot of $$$ and effort into getting the Worcester connections working and its one of the smarter transit related initiatives that the state has accomplished in recent years.

 

[DAVE]

The population of the state as a whole might not be growing that much, but the inner core is growing rapidly now because of the Post-2008 need to live in an area where it's feasible to live carless. Cape Cod and Western Mass will be depopulated in due time.

I wish this was more true but, in reality its due to immigration.
From the 2019 Greater Boston Housing Report Card:
"While Greater Boston continues to experience population growth, the growth has largely depended on increased immigration from abroad plus some small natural increases resulting from the a higher number of births versus deaths." (p. 12).

Vehicle ownership has also increased overall. From Commonwealth Mag:
"the number of households in Boston owning vehicles rose faster between 2012 and 2017 than the population as a whole"

 

[odurandina]

Why not offer transit solutions that are accessible to Cape Cod and Western Mass if you believe they will depopulate overtime?
This will only help for housing affordability throughout the state. Massachusetts resources should be truly focused on transit solutions.

While we're at it, should we encourage all the 3 day a week workers to get outa here
and move to Leominster, Grafton, Sutton, Webster, ect??

 

[jklo]

I wish this was more true but, in reality its due to immigration.

I'd say the immigrants are less likely to have a car actually. Especially the ones on work visa, logistically I would think it would be easier to just not have a car in case you are forced to move to keep the visa or the work ends. Obviously if you live in the burbs you don't have much of a choice.

 

[Johnnyrocket891]

I hear ya but Rhode Island needs to pony up as its not Massachusetts' problem that their citizens don't have access to transit. This state has put a lot of $$$ and effort into getting the Worcester connections working and its one of the smarter transit related initiatives that the state has accomplished in recent years.

Transit does not discriminate.
Right now our transportation in this state is very poorly funded and lacks great vision.

This is very important to the business community to have an efficient service running throughout the state.

 

[KentXie]

If I could live in RI or Worcester paying $1000 a month in rent for 3 bedrooms vs paying $3000 in Boston along with having access to get to into Boston by transit 5-10mins. I would have no problem living in RI or Worcester with that type of accessibility.

I can guarantee you if there's a transportation option that allows you to get to Boston from Worcester or RI in 5-10 minutes, you would be most certainly paying 2x more than $1000/mo. The reason it's so cheap right now is because that accessibility doesn't exist.

 

[Johnnyrocket891]

I can guarantee you if there's a transportation option that allows you to get to Boston from Worcester or RI in 5-10 minutes, you would be most certainly paying 2x more than $1000/mo. The reason it's so cheap right now is because that accessibility doesn't exist.

Okay So lets leave the system they way it is.

 

[KentXie]

Okay So lets leave the system they way it is.

No, let's include government policy into housing near TOD with improving transit. It's shortsighted to think improving just transit without introducing government policy would solve the housing crisis and prevent lower income families from being pushed further away. You can't be naive enough to think rent won't skyrocket the moment accessibility improves.