I-90 Interchange Improvement Project & West Station | Allston

Kinopio said:
Planning a new urban neighborhood and pushing off public transit until 2040 or whenever is super dumb. Planning a city around cars is super dumb. The Boston Landing station is getting way more use than predicted.

If they can afford $1 billion to straighten a tiny section of highway they can sure as hell afford a small fraction of that for a station. If they can afford to build parking garages with taxpayer money in the seaport then they can afford West Station. The state continues to give drivers a blank check while screwing over public transit and what has that gotten us? Hundreds of people killed per year in car crashes and gridlocked traffic. Public transit saves lives, money and land.
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As detailed below, this is not. about. money.

It's not "planning a city around cars". This neighborhood is being planned around transit, ped, and bike. There will be bike lanes, bus lanes, dedicated multi-use paths... the cars on this site are incidental to the site. They're there because there is literally no other Interstate access for the whole of Cambridge, Somerville, Fenway, Longwood, Allston, and Brighton. That's an area that includes nearly all of Boston's core institutional employers.

The city is built around transit. If it were built around cars, we wouldn't have this problem, because this would be where the Turnpike met I-695 and Memorial Drive, Central Square, Union Square, and Fenway/Longwood would all have their own exits.

Thank goodness we didn't build Boston around cars.

Coyote137 said:
The station should be built now. The only argument against is $$$, i.e., we can't afford it now because the T is a shithole.
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No. The argument against is that during construction the T can fit either a station or layover tracks alongside that portion of the line. The layover tracks are more important, because they impact the reliability and effectiveness of the service for all the people between Boston and Worcester, not just those in the immediate area of this one station. Once the highway project is complete, it will become geographically possible to do both, but not until.
 
Equilibria said:
No. The argument against is that during construction the T can fit either a station or layover tracks alongside that portion of the line. The layover tracks are more important, because they impact the reliability and effectiveness of the service for all the people between Boston and Worcester, not just those in the immediate area of this one station. Once the highway project is complete, it will become geographically possible to do both, but not until.
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And do you find this to be a legitimate argument?

By the way, I've actually heard several arguments against, depending on who you ask. This includes different people at MassDOT. The money piece was stressed by Pollack, including wanting more dough from Harvard, when she chose to kick the can down the road (pun intended?).
 
Coyote137 said:
And do you find this to be a legitimate argument?

By the way, I've actually heard several arguments against, depending on who you ask. This includes different people at MassDOT. The money piece was stressed by Pollack, including wanting more dough from Harvard, when she chose to kick the can down the road (pun intended?).
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I do find it credible. That doesn't mean there won't be dissent. Pollack wants more from Harvard, but the MBTA can afford to build this station, especially with 10 years or more of notice. My point was, they aren't delaying it because they need more money.

I think we're all on-board with Harvard (and BU, but they're poorer) needing to shell out for the station, but the State could theoretically cover the cost. If that were the outcome, it would make it even more important that they built the RIGHT station. That... umm... hasn't been the MBTA's strongest suit lately (see Auburndale).
 
I can see how BU doesn't have any desire to pony up for this station for the sole benefit of Harvard. Its Harvard's land that's being developed and all BU will get is extra traffic through its campus.

I had read initially when Harvard purchased the rail yard they gave BU an option to purchase the portion nearest their campus. Maybe if that's still in the works it would give BU more skin the game. However, its easier for BU students and staff to just utilize the B Line and 57 bus to get up and down campus.
 
Dante Ramos said:
So, this is promising news: In letter today to @MassDOT @Steph_Pollack, Harvard ups commitment to West Station to $50m, plus $8M for “early action” commuter station.
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https://twitter.com/danteramos/status/956223511827279873

DUUwNqBWkAIB316.jpg:small
 
34f34f said:
https://twitter.com/danteramos/status/956223511827279873

DUUwNqBWkAIB316.jpg:small
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YES!!!!!!!

Harvard came through and called Pollack/Baker's bluff.

If Pollack/Baker still want to piss on our heads and tell us that it is raining with this "We'll DISCUSS it in 2040" baloney, then they are the problem not the solution.

Any further delaying tactics by the Governor at this point only means he is being paid off by some opposing interests.
 
shmessy said:
YES!!!!!!!

Harvard came through and called Pollack/Baker's bluff.

If Pollack/Baker still want to piss on our heads and tell us that it is raining with this "We'll DISCUSS it in 2040" baloney, then they are the problem not the solution.

Any further delaying tactics by the Governor at this point only means he is being paid off by some opposing interests.
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No, it could mean that the geographical/logistical tradeoff between station and layover yard is still a problem. It's great that Harvard came up with the money. That resolves the money. It doesn't get the station built immediately.

I still don't understand why people are so up-in-arms about their ability to ride a commuter rail train from Wellesley to this site. Unless, of course, you make that commute. But otherwise? It's not a grid of subway lines, folks.
 
Equilibria said:
No, it could mean that the geographical/logistical tradeoff between station and layover yard is still a problem. It's great that Harvard came up with the money. That resolves the money. It doesn't get the station built immediately.

I still don't understand why people are so up-in-arms about their ability to ride a commuter rail train from Wellesley to this site. Unless, of course, you make that commute. But otherwise? It's not a grid of subway lines, folks.
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Agreed. Unless/until this becomes an extension of the Green Line I'm not sure how often it gets utilized but I suppose a lot of that depends on the configuration of the neighborhood. It does allow for faster transit to downtown via south station of course but again I'm not sure how many people are going to be riding it for that reason.
 
Rover said:
Agreed. Unless/until this becomes an extension of the Green Line I'm not sure how often it gets utilized but I suppose a lot of that depends on the configuration of the neighborhood. It does allow for faster transit to downtown via south station of course but again I'm not sure how many people are going to be riding it for that reason.
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I have a few friends that live in Allston near the Boston Landing station. They take the commuter rail to Back Bay and South Station all the time. I don't see why that mentality wouldn't be the same for people who live near West Station. Whenever the timing works out it's a no-brainer for them, and it's cheap since its Zone 1A. When Boston Landing was proposed, they said it would be used by 500 people per day with the full build out at New Balance. Currently it's not even half done and ridership is already almost twice of what they thought, up to 900.
https://commonwealthmagazine.org/back-story/west-station-vs-boston-landing/

The idea is not to get people from the outer suburbs to the site more easily, that would just be something that comes with it. Overall, we're looking to aid in mode-shift so that traffic doesn't gridlock the area for most of the day.
 
sm89 said:
I have a few friends that live in Allston near the Boston Landing station. They take the commuter rail to Back Bay and South Station all the time. I don't see why that mentality wouldn't be the same for people who live near West Station. Whenever the timing works out it's a no-brainer for them, and it's cheap since its Zone 1A. When Boston Landing was proposed, they said it would be used by 500 people per day with the full build out at New Balance. Currently it's not even half done and ridership is already almost twice of what they thought, up to 900.
https://commonwealthmagazine.org/back-story/west-station-vs-boston-landing/

The idea is not to get people from the outer suburbs to the site more easily, that would just be something that comes with it. Overall, we're looking to aid in mode-shift so that traffic doesn't gridlock the area for most of the day.
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+1.

And those numbers will only grow as more residents move to Allston/Brighton. The people who will be living in those neighborhoods WANT to be car free. Why not grease the skids for that? Harvard will be ponying up more than half the station cost! Shouldn't it be a goal of the city and Commonwealth to enable that - - there are too many ancillary benefits if they are allowed to be car free.

Not to sound to "Oudurina" about it, but let's steal the suburban residents and allow them to live car free in highrises in the city by building tall with more transit stations available. More people, more tax revenue, less traffic. Efficiency.
 
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sm89 said:
I have a few friends that live in Allston near the Boston Landing station. They take the commuter rail to Back Bay and South Station all the time. I don't see why that mentality wouldn't be the same for people who live near West Station. Whenever the timing works out it's a no-brainer for them, and it's cheap since its Zone 1A. When Boston Landing was proposed, they said it would be used by 500 people per day with the full build out at New Balance. Currently it's not even half done and ridership is already almost twice of what they thought, up to 900.
https://commonwealthmagazine.org/back-story/west-station-vs-boston-landing/

The idea is not to get people from the outer suburbs to the site more easily, that would just be something that comes with it. Overall, we're looking to aid in mode-shift so that traffic doesn't gridlock the area for most of the day.
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Good info. Thanks.
 
sm89 said:
I have a few friends that live in Allston near the Boston Landing station. They take the commuter rail to Back Bay and South Station all the time. I don't see why that mentality wouldn't be the same for people who live near West Station. Whenever the timing works out it's a no-brainer for them, and it's cheap since its Zone 1A. When Boston Landing was proposed, they said it would be used by 500 people per day with the full build out at New Balance. Currently it's not even half done and ridership is already almost twice of what they thought, up to 900.
https://commonwealthmagazine.org/back-story/west-station-vs-boston-landing/

The idea is not to get people from the outer suburbs to the site more easily, that would just be something that comes with it. Overall, we're looking to aid in mode-shift so that traffic doesn't gridlock the area for most of the day.
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This is perfect. I always assumed that West Station was there mostly to connect people quickly to South Station (And Back Bay Station), thus enabling a South Shore / South West commute to the site.

Using the B Line to get to South Station is just plain painful in comparison.
 
Note there would also be critical bus connections, and potential use of the Grand Junction. Writing this off as an unimportant station is inappropriate.
 
Coyote137 said:
Note there would also be critical bus connections, and potential use of the Grand Junction. Writing this off as an unimportant station is inappropriate.
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Key word there is "potential". Use of the Grand Junction doesn't happen until 2030s anyway.
 
shmessy said:
YES!!!!!!!

Harvard came through and called Pollack/Baker's bluff.
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Was it a bluff or was it a negotiating tactic? Either way, this is good news, because it will save the state some money and almost certainly mean a more useful time table. Harvard wins by getting the station sooner rather than later, so good news for everybody.
 
Perhaps Harvard realized that by upping the seed money now, and pushing for interim improvements (on top of a permanent station), they can expedite the build-out of the area and not only recoup the initial outlay, but profit off it down the line.
 
HenryAlan said:
Was it a bluff or was it a negotiating tactic? Either way, this is good news, because it will save the state some money and almost certainly mean a more useful time table. Harvard wins by getting the station sooner rather than later, so good news for everybody.
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Aha. A bluff IS a negotiating tactic!

The "shelving to 2040" idea was so absurd, it couldn't have been anything else but a "We'll do it once Harvard ponies up more money, or else" tactic.

***Now if BU doesn't do ITS part, the roads/paths around that station should all point AWAY from their campus.

It's Hardball Time.
 
navigator4 said:
How many stops are they planning to add to the Worcester commuter rail line? They already added Boston Landing. Soon its going to take 2 hours to get from Worcester to Boston. Only people with a Boston-centric view think screwing suburban commuters makes sense.
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I know these come off a bit snarky, but they are honest questions:

Just how far away are people entitled to a short ride into Boston? Springfield? Albany?

How long should it take to get from Worcester to Boston? What is your basis for thinking 2 hours is too long?

Why are Worcester residents more entitled to transit into Boston than Boston residents?
 
If only they had done the same strategy with the Harvard Curve on the Red Line :)
 
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