It seems to boil down to choose two:
- Grand Junction
- 8 lanes of the Pike at ground level
- Zero filling of the Charles
You mean "doing the viaduct as is or do nothing until the bridge falls down"
It seems to boil down to choose two:
- Grand Junction
- 8 lanes of the Pike at ground level
- Zero filling of the Charles
Pretty much.You mean "doing the viaduct as is or do nothing until the bridge falls down"
Locked in at full RR geometry, because federally-regulated and there are 2 immediate tenant objectors to deleting it outright from the network. Concessions functionally won't come from here.- Grand Junction
MassDOT already nixed any proposals that reduce number of lanes, any proposals that reduce width of lanes and drawn a red line in the sand on that. Concessions functionally won't come from here.- 8 lanes of the Pike at ground level
MassDOT doesn't want to do it, Feds are being bastards about allowing it. In my heart I think this one probably has more *actual* functional leeway in the real world, but both state+feds are playing a kabuki dance with their synced objections to net a desired outcome that excludes other outcomes. Extremely unwilling parties for any concessions means they aren't coming from here.- Zero filling of the Charles
Oddly, this is probably the most feasible out of anything. But will the now incredibly factionalized advocacy go for it??? Everybody's kind of stuck in a "No! No! No!" rut right now and in such a fighting mood / unwilling to give an inch that this too might not stand a chance. I get the feeling textbooks are gonna get written on the community input-gone-awry/outreach-begats-self-immolation aspect of this whole travesty.Ok, probably stupid, but at this point why not...An all at-grade solution except:
For a short stretch at the throat, elevate just the walking/jogging path above the outer lanes of SFR, but squeeze the bike path at-grade along the river. Motivate walkers/joggers to take the elevated route by making it a cool "scenic view"/highline-type "park" experience. Fit everything else at-grade. Commuting cyclists want speed, everyone else wants either/both a view or a workout. Vehicle-less people are the cheapest thing to elevate.
Am I misunderstanding that the issue is not the path out in the river but the four feet of SFR that needs to have that landfill to be possible? This would not solve that issue.Ok, in response to RandomWalk's "choose 2" paradox...An all at-grade solution except:
For a short stretch at the throat, elevate just the walking/jogging path above the outer lanes of SFR, but squeeze the bike path at-grade along the river. Motivate walkers/joggers to take the elevated route by making it a cool "scenic view"/highline-type "park" experience. Fit everything else at-grade. Commuting cyclists want speed, everyone else wants either/both a view or a workout. Vehicle-less people are the cheapest thing to elevate.
EDIT: OK, I realize this is basically the physics-defying cantilevered path thing posted upthread...except, just put support posts in the SFR median and don't attempt to elevate the cycle track and call it a day.
I agree. The only way to eliminate SFR fill into the river in an all at-grade alternative is to eliminate, or elevate and stack, the GJ through the throat. Otherwise the SFR fill will spill into the river which the Feds are allegedly dead-set against, and other publics actually are against. And F-Line is right about the impossibility of eliminating the GJ in the foreseeable future. Even if someday N-S freight traffic and maintenance is set up so the GJ isn't needed, a 2 track RR ROW (in addition to the 2 track Worcester line) thru the throat will still be needed for an LRV line to West Station (and beyond).Am I misunderstanding that the issue is not the path out in the river but the four feet of SFR that needs to have that landfill to be possible? This would not solve that issue.
^Everything's out of the flood zone, so the Feds would be okay with it....
But almost everyone commuting from MetroWest to downtown should in fact be able to take the 'T to work. We don't need 12 lanes to satisfy the other road use elements you've identified. Spend some of the money saved by lane reduction on building a solid, high frequency, high capacity rail line between Worcester and South Station, and we can actually increase the number of trips, despite reducing car capacity.Not everyone can take the T to work
I would leave the pedestrian path at grade and elevate the bike path. Most bike riders would be okay with a short climb if it meant avoiding mixing with pedestrian users.Ok, in response to RandomWalk's "choose 2" paradox...An all at-grade solution except:
For a short stretch at the throat, elevate just the walking/jogging path above the outer lanes of SFR, but squeeze the bike path at-grade along the river. Motivate walkers/joggers to take the elevated route by making it a cool "scenic view"/highline-type "park" experience. Fit everything else at-grade. Commuting cyclists want speed, everyone else wants either/both a view or a workout. Vehicle-less people are the cheapest thing to elevate.
EDIT: OK, I realize this is basically the physics-defying cantilevered path thing posted upthread...except, just put support posts in the SFR median and don't attempt to elevate the cycle track and call it a day.
I think the horizontal distance between the GJ and the Mainline is because the GJ is higher up than the Mainline, so the GJ can pass over the Pike and SFR at the BU Bridge, The GJ slopes down (at 1.5% grade) to meet the elevation of the Mainline at the west end of the Throat area. The additional horizontal distance between the two lines is needed for a fence along each line because of the elevation difference.2 - Do we really need 18 feet between the track centers of the two center tracks of the GJ and the Mainline when there is only 13 feet between the other tracks? Can there be something else constructed here more like a foot thick metal cofferdam sheet? I'm not an engineer but right there you have five feet (18'-13') to play with.
Ok, probably stupid, but at this point why not...An all at-grade solution except:
For a short stretch at the throat, elevate just the walking/jogging path above the outer lanes of SFR, but squeeze the bike path at-grade along the river. Motivate walkers/joggers to take the elevated route by making it a cool "scenic view"/highline-type "park" experience. Fit everything else at-grade. Commuting cyclists want speed, everyone else wants either/both a view or a workout. Vehicle-less people are the cheapest thing to elevate.
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Oddly, this is probably the most feasible out of anything. But will the now incredibly factionalized advocacy go for it??? Everybody's kind of stuck in a "No! No! No!" rut right now and in such a fighting mood / unwilling to give an inch that this too might not stand a chance. I get the feeling textbooks are gonna get written on the community input-gone-awry/outreach-begats-self-immolation aspect of this whole travesty.
Looks great and is well-balanced between transportation and ecosystem needs.Many advocates are very interested in the possibility of elevating some or all of the paths. We even worked with CBT and Perkins&Will (who very generously did an award-winning pro bono design project with us).
https://www.abettercity.org/news-an...ign-exploration-with-cbt-and-perkins-and-will
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