Kenmore Square North (WHOOP) | 533-541 Commonwealth Ave | Fenway

Poolio said:
I just can't get as worked up about this as most of you. To me, the worst thing about this development (by far) is still the loss of the West Gate building. The new building is bland and sterile, sure, but hardly offensive. If West Gate had been saved I don't think I'd have any qualms about it at all.
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Bland, sterile and inoffensive will always be a negative to people who want cities to be dynamic, interesting and stimulating to the mind and senses.

This building, in that particular spotlight location of multi modal transportation, a major university, an internationally reknown sports franchise is a horrible underperformer. It’s on a freaking corner that is one of the most eyeballed in New England. Would it have killed the developer to put an electronic news ticker along the top of the first floor awning area???? Why deaden that corner??? Perhaps the several thousand dollars cost for a news ticker was too much for the developer to afford, given the shockingly thin brick wafer-movie studio lot-Potemkin village siding.

It is shit.

Worse than that, it is boring, bland and deadening shit. It is the William H. Macey character in the movie The Cooler. I’m not one of the people pining for the funky old days of Kenmore, but DO want a better, more vibrant future for "sleepy, geriatric, 9:30pm closing time" Boston.

Think about it. If any place in Boston should be 24/7, it is THIS. At the very least, Kenmore Square needs to be alive at least until midnight and beyond. IF NOT THERE, WHERE????? This building, and what it will be used for, are the urban life equivalents of a monastery curfew.
 
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I think the name Kenmore Square North to be a meaningless name. Let’s give credit where it’s due and call it the Marty after the man responsible.
 
BostonObserver said:
I think the name Kenmore Square North to be a meaningless name. Let’s give credit where it’s due and call it the Marty after the man responsible.
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I prefer "Whoops In Kenmore" unofficially, after its unfortunate corporate tenancy synergy.
 
I don't think there's a separate thread for the other building
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shmessy said:
If any place in Boston should be 24/7, it is THIS. At the very least, Kenmore Square needs to be alive at least until midnight and beyond. IF NOT THERE, WHERE????? This building, and what it will be used for, are the urban life equivalents of a monastery curfew.
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Back when I lived in Kenmore, it was pretty active until about 3AM. No doubt with the loss of so many clubs and late night eateries, that's no longer the case, but does it really shut down before 12? Damn, what a decline!
 
HenryAlan said:
Back when I lived in Kenmore, it was pretty active until about 3AM. No doubt with the loss of so many clubs and late night eateries, that's no longer the case, but does it really shut down before 12? Damn, what a decline!
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Ive shut down Cornwalls in recent years at 2 and its dead in Kenmore by then
 
HenryAlan said:
Back when I lived in Kenmore, it was pretty active until about 3AM. No doubt with the loss of so many clubs and late night eateries, that's no longer the case, but does it really shut down before 12? Damn, what a decline!
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You could say this about most of Boston... Theater District is really the only area I am aware of in the city that goes until 2am and is still bustling with people until 3-330am. Boston has the quietest (worst) big city nightlife in North America for a city its size.
 
393b40 said:
You could say this about most of Boston... Theater District is really the only area I am aware of in the city that goes until 2am and is still bustling with people until 3-330am. Boston has the quietest (worst) big city nightlife in North America for a city its size.
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So...keep making it worse because sunk cost?

I mean, is it not a problem that Kenmore was one of those oases of 24/7 activity until not that long ago and no longer is? Whoop's tenancy at the new eyesore just means it's going to have an even more lopsided 9-to-5 skew than before and go to sleep even earlier at night.
 
F-Line to Dudley said:
So...keep making it worse because sunk cost?

I mean, is it not a problem that Kenmore was one of those oases of 24/7 activity until not that long ago and no longer is? Whoop's tenancy at the new eyesore just means it's going to have an even more lopsided 9-to-5 skew than before and go to sleep even earlier at night.
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The problem goes way beyond Kenmore. It's a Massachusetts cultural issue and also tied up in the politics of liquor licenses and commercial rent.

The fact is, plain and simple, Boston isn't setup for <30 year old people except as a way to extract money out of them via school tuition and apartment rent. The people who are long-term invested in this area want to keep it as boring as possible. And there's really no reason to change... people are going to come here regardless because of the schools and the jobs then they eventually age out of the demographic that wants active late night life and it stops being a problem.
 
393b40 said:
The problem goes way beyond Kenmore. It's a Massachusetts cultural issue and also tied up in the politics of liquor licenses and commercial rent.
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We're not talking about problems "way beyond Kenmore." Literally no one was talking about that until you decided retroactively we all were. We're talking "Kenmore had a past-2AM nightlife as little as 20 years ago, now it so totally doesn't, and tomorrow it's going to lurch to even earlier-in-evening desolation because it's piling on the 9-to-5'er skew." Something changed, something is continuing to be pushed in real-time towards exacerbating that change, and the thread is focusing on the specifics of exactly what inside Kenmore changed in that span, what's objectionable about it, and why.

The fact is, plain and simple, Boston isn't setup for <30 year old people except as a way to extract money out of them via school tuition and apartment rent. The people who are long-term invested in this area want to keep it as boring as possible. And there's really no reason to change... people are going to come here regardless because of the schools and the jobs then they eventually age out of the demographic that wants active late night life and it stops being a problem.
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Plain and simple? Really...you're going to take a 20 ft. wide broad stoke on the whole metro region like that, not offer any attribution whatsoever, and decree it such self-affirming "fact" it requires no self-support? Because, as per last page, you find it trite and boring to talk about this. Okie-doke, dude...apparently you're completely unable to find a not-boring thread to look at today if you're trying this hard to shut down a fully on-topic thread tangent with this level of hand-waving. :rolleyes:
 
393b40 said:
The fact is, plain and simple, Boston isn't setup for <30 year old people except as a way to extract money out of them via school tuition and apartment rent. The people who are long-term invested in this area want to keep it as boring as possible. And there's really no reason to change... people are going to come here regardless because of the schools and the jobs then they eventually age out of the demographic that wants active late night life and it stops being a problem.
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This comes off as a statement made by somebody who actually doesn't know this city well. Maybe that's not the case, but I don't think your statement is quite the solid argument you intended. It's far more complex than "plain and simple," and the generational conflict you are suggesting as the impetus is just plain silly.
 
393b40 said:
The problem goes way beyond Kenmore. It's a Massachusetts cultural issue and also tied up in the politics of liquor licenses and commercial rent.

The fact is, plain and simple, Boston isn't setup for <30 year old people except as a way to extract money out of them via school tuition and apartment rent. The people who are long-term invested in this area want to keep it as boring as possible. And there's really no reason to change... people are going to come here regardless because of the schools and the jobs then they eventually age out of the demographic that wants active late night life and it stops being a problem.
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That's just not true. Already we're seeing the bars and clubs coming back til 2am and spilling out til 2:30 or so, and there are many neighborhoods that this exists other than Theater District. More bars and clubs will be opening up throughout Boston, Somerville, and Cambridge, and there is a large influx of 25-45 year olds moving in due to all the jobs, NOT because they're university students. As someone who lived here as a kid, left for some years, and has been back for at least the last 22 years, I also enjoy nightlife and feel that there is/will be a good balance of available things to do and options to chill elsewhere. The city is and will continue to evolve and many of the "old school mentality" New Englanders are moving away either because of age, expense, "too liberal", and are being replaced with those who are willing and able to keep the area progressing. Maybe people have had other different experiences, but those I am surrounded with (some lifers and some new arrivals), are excited about the city's growth, dynamics and future prospects.
 
Luckily theres still an empty lot directly across from this so theres still a chance to get something good here to improve the corner along with the proposed tower. A couple great buildings would help hide this one.
 
I’m 65. Saw a much more exciting night life here in my day than you describe as current. I regret the collapse of such.

But it’s not on us old fogeys as a class. Although I suppose when we were the client base, perhaps we were more numerous than you and thus better catered for?

The explotative narrative you advance, I question it. I’d have said it was more related to the evolution of tort law. Liquor liability, police liability for turning a blind eye to drunks, the hidden hand of university administrators seeking to minimize their liability for “in loco parentis” claims for their juvenile rube clients, the increase in the drinking age… it seems to me that these did more to kill nightlife than anything before the pandemic.

Parenthetically, having (successfully) represented unfortunate fun loving students in various judicial settings, I can tell you that you have no idea what venal snakes some university administrators are! They are the secret coconspirator of the anti-fun nimby.
 
I agree with GAC108...I think nightlife is poised for a renewal and will continue to liberalize as the culture changes. Boston is becoming less staid, less Yankee, less Irish. Younger generations want more vitality and are less repressed than the older generations. The advent of outdoor dining alone will bring a totally different vibe to the city even after the pandemic ends. I was walking down the street in front of Union Oyster House last night. It has become a pedestrian way with outdoor dining. I can imagine that being a fun environment post pandemic. The profusion of beer gardens is a huge advantage. When I moved back to Boston in 2004 the best "waterfront" place to drink was Tia's!! It wouldn't rank in the top 20 today.
 
Ha. Every generation thinks it is Columbus discovering “a new world”. Mine in its youth, yours…
I agree that the pandemic regulatory changes regarding out door drinking and dining might bring a change in a more desirable Latin direction.
 
sidewalks said:
I agree with GAC108...I think nightlife is poised for a renewal and will continue to liberalize as the culture changes. Boston is becoming less staid, less Yankee, less Irish. Younger generations want more vitality and are less repressed than the older generations. The advent of outdoor dining alone will bring a totally different vibe to the city even after the pandemic ends. I was walking down the street in front of Union Oyster House last night. It has become a pedestrian way with outdoor dining. I can imagine that being a fun environment post pandemic. The profusion of beer gardens is a huge advantage. When I moved back to Boston in 2004 the best "waterfront" place to drink was Tia's!! It wouldn't rank in the top 20 today.
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These people have to get up at 6 AM to go to work. Can't exactly party till 3 AM.
 
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