Logan Airport Flights and Airlines Discussion

[737900er]

The SkyTeam/Delta international network is really becoming impressive in BOS.

AMS: 2.6(2 DL; 0.6 KL)
ATH: 1
CDG: 3 (2 AF; DL)
CPH: 1
CUN: 1
DUB: 1
EDI: 1
FCO: 1
ICN: 1
LHR: 3 (DL; 2 VS)
LIS: 1
MEX: 1
TLV: (suspended)
YYC: 0.6

 

[adamh8297]

The SkyTeam/Delta international network is really becoming impressive in BOS.

AMS: 2.6(2 DL; 0.6 KL)
ATH: 1
CDG: 3 (2 AF; DL)
CPH: 1
CUN: 1
DUB: 1
EDI: 1
FCO: 1
ICN: 1
LHR: 3 (DL; 2 VS)
LIS: 1
MEX: 1
TLV: (suspended)
YYC: 0.6

GRU is served with Delta JV partner LATAM but they are not in SkyTeam.

Also AUA, NAS, PLS, MBJ, and PUJ for international seasonal Caribbean destinations.

 

[mass88]

Lynx Air Adds Boston, San Francisco to Its Network — Ishrion Aviation

Lynx Air is expanding with two new U.S. destinations—Boston and San Francisco

ishrionaviation.com

Another airline to Canada. Lynx Air is launching non-stop service from Toronto beginning March 28, 2024. 4 times per week to start, then increasing to 6 times per week as of the end of April. Boeing 737 Max 8 equipment.

 

[Lrfox]

More regional and less Logan, but Breeze is apparently hemorrhaging money. I've had some questions about their business model (especially the quick adds and cuts to routes), but this looks bad. I realize they're still newish, and that it takes time to turn a profit, but they're burning through cash fast.

 

[TheRatmeister]

More regional and less Logan, but Breeze is apparently hemorrhaging money. I've had some questions about their business model (especially the quick adds and cuts to routes), but this looks bad. I realize they're still newish, and that it takes time to turn a profit, but they're burning through cash fast.

• To save on costs, Breeze flights aren’t bookable through online travel agencies, which is a major issue for an airline without much name recognition
• Breeze has done very little to actually market itself, so unless you happen to be searching through Google Flights (which shows Breeze flights, while online travel agencies don’t), you’d never otherwise come across this airline

Well there's your problem. Word of mouth is how you start a lawn-mowing business, not an airline.

 

[JS38]

More regional and less Logan, but Breeze is apparently hemorrhaging money. I've had some questions about their business model (especially the quick adds and cuts to routes), but this looks bad. I realize they're still newish, and that it takes time to turn a profit, but they're burning through cash fast.

Damn, think will still be around by June to go see the Sox in Cincy? Have heard great things from those who've flown them, and why would you look for flights anywhere other than Google Flights?

 

[TheRatmeister]

Damn, think will still be around by June to go see the Sox in Cincy? Have heard great things from those who've flown them, and why would you look for flights anywhere other than Google Flights?

Soooooo many people use Expedia, kayak, Orbitz, etc. They're big brands that (rightfully) realize the value of advertising.

 

[Stlin]

Soooooo many people use Expedia, kayak, Orbitz, etc. They're big brands that (rightfully) realize the value of advertising.

Also, despite the fact that they've got different names, behind the scenes they're like 2 companies, which means once you list on one, regardless of what site your customers use you show up.

Booking Holdings owns Booking.com, Kayak, Priceline, and Agoda.

Expedia Group owns Expedia, Orbitz, Hotwire, Travelocity, Hotels.com and Vrbo, and both companies own more smaller brands.

Southwest is the biggest airline I can think of that doesn't use OTA channels at all but they're established and have a loyal following and people who want to fly them know to look for them. Allegiant is missing from some, but still use at least some of them.

 

[TheRatmeister]

Also, despite the fact that they've got different names, behind the scenes they're like 2 companies, which means once you list on one, regardless of what site your customers use you show up.

Booking Holdings owns Booking.com, Kayak, Priceline, and Agoda.

Expedia Group owns Expedia, Orbitz, Hotwire, Travelocity, Hotels.com and Vrbo, and both companies own more smaller brands.

Southwest is the biggest airline I can think of that doesn't use OTA channels at all but they're established and have a loyal following and people who want to fly them know to look for them. Allegiant is missing from some, but still use at least some of them.

Ultimately people don't care what company owns the site they book at, they care what the URL says. Yes, Southwest and Allegiant aren't plugged into the GDS, so clearly the model can work, but I think it's important to look at differences.

Southwest is older than many booking sites, exploding in popularity during the 1990s. It has huge name recognition and brand loyalty. A lot of people will just go to Southwest.com when they want to fly somewhere.

Allegiant almost exclusively flies out of very small airports, like Portsmouth NH or Billings MT. At these airports they're basically the only name in town with direct flights to popular vacation destinations like Florida or California. Word of mouth advertising is very effective when there's no competition and the market you're serving barely has 100k people. Once you get this foothold you can start expanding to larger markets, like Allegiant has done recently with flights to Boston or Chicago. This seems to be the strategy taken by the other recent upstart airline Avelo.

Breeze doesn't really fit either of these. They're targeting medium sized cities like Columbus or New Orleans that have sizable markets and decent competition, albeit mostly through connecting flights. Many people already have an airline loyalty, and those that don't are usually infrequent fliers and don't follow airline news, nor will airline news filter down significantly through local news like it does in small cities and towns. They will book flights using these GDS services, and are unlikely to encounter Breeze. The obvious solution here is to aggressively advertise locally to kickstart growth, but they don't seem to be doing that either, and without that they'll naturally struggle to get that foothold that they can grow from.

 

[bakgwailo]

I will say from a bit of time in the industry: never use OTAs for air travel, always book directly through the carrier. Vastly superior custom service if things go wrong, and the carrier sets pricing so will also generally be the best deal.

 

[Lrfox]

I will say from a bit of time in the industry: never use OTAs for air travel, always book directly through the carrier. Vastly superior custom service if things go wrong, and the carrier sets pricing so will also generally be the best deal.

Definitely true for most air travel - I've rarely encountered an OTA offering a better price than direct with the airline and they're not equipped to help when things don't go as planned. I've worked on the hotel side of things, and I'd offer the same advice for lodging as well. While hotel rates are different than airfare (you can often find cheaper rates via OTAs/third-party sites), there's not nearly as much recourse should things go wrong. I've also witnessed hotels treating third-party guests worse than those who booked direct through the brand/chain.

 

[TheRatmeister]

Definitely true for most air travel - I've rarely encountered an OTA offering a better price than direct with the airline and they're not equipped to help when things don't go as planned. I've worked on the hotel side of things, and I'd offer the same advice for lodging as well. While hotel rates are different than airfare (you can often find cheaper rates via OTAs/third-party sites), there's not nearly as much recourse should things go wrong. I've also witnessed hotels treating third-party guests worse than those who booked direct through the brand/chain.

Hotels it's sometimes $60 vs $100 per night or something, while flights are usually like $100 vs $110. I'm willing to take risk on the former, but $10 is a reasonable peace of mind tax.

 

[737900er]

Breeze's model less than daily flights into midsize airports seems really well suited for the OTAs actually, but a massive annoyance for anyone who wants/needs to fly on the days they don't operate. The OTAs could sell PVD-CHS // CHS-IAD-PVD as one ticket. Southwest basically operates the same schedule every weekday.

I don't even know what competitor would swoop in to pick up the pieces that are left.

 

[Stlin]

I will say from a bit of time in the industry: never use OTAs for air travel, always book directly through the carrier. Vastly superior custom service if things go wrong, and the carrier sets pricing so will also generally be the best deal.

While I would agree, I feel that the more infrequent leisure traveler that Breeze is targeting is the same audience that OTAs cater to. I feel that low friction in the transaction is the best way to get that group to book something, even if that creates a ton of friction in irregular situations - by making folks book on their own website, it creates a hassle hurdle that a lot of folks won't jump over.

Anecdotally, I have a friend who will be flying Breeze to CHS from PVD for a wedding, despite living in Somerville, because that's a better option for her than the competition out of BOS - but she didn't know that Breeze existed and flew the route until I told her, because it didn't come up in her flight research.

 

[tysmith95]

While I would agree, I feel that the more infrequent leisure traveler that Breeze is targeting is the same audience that OTAs cater to. I feel that low friction in the transaction is the best way to get that group to book something, even if that creates a ton of friction in irregular situations - by making folks book on their own website, it creates a hassle hurdle that a lot of folks won't jump over.

Anecdotally, I have a friend who will be flying Breeze to CHS from PVD for a wedding, despite living in Somerville, because that's a better option for her than the competition out of BOS - but she didn't know that Breeze existed and flew the route until I told her, because it didn't come up in her flight research.

It's usually not profitable to be the option that people go out of their way to take to save money.

Reminds me of driving to PVD in 2018 to get one of Norwegians cheap Ireland flights.

 

[Stlin]

Lynx Air, the new Canadian ULCC, is launching flights to BOS from YYZ (Toronto Pearson). Every other day to start on Mar 28, moving to daily-except-Saturday on April 22. BOS and SFO are interesting choices for an airline that to date has focused on getting Canadians to warm places further south.

Lynx Air announces summer network expansion, adding service to Boston and San Francisco from Toronto

To celebrate, Lynx is launching a seat sale, offering up to 25 per cent off base fares on all transborder routes...

www.globenewswire.com

 

[BosDevelop]

Lynx Air, the new Canadian ULCC, is launching flights to BOS from YYZ (Toronto Pearson). Every other day to start on Mar 28, moving to daily-except-Saturday on April 22. BOS and SFO are interesting choices for an airline that to date has focused on getting Canadians to warm places further south.

Lynx Air announces summer network expansion, adding service to Boston and San Francisco from Toronto

To celebrate, Lynx is launching a seat sale, offering up to 25 per cent off base fares on all transborder routes...

www.globenewswire.com

Unless you are connecting in YYZ (or they intend to vastly undercut the prices of Porter's flights to YTZ) I am not sure I understand the target market for these flights.

 

[mass88]

Looks like Norse Atlantic will not be returning to Boston for the NS24 season. Both Boston and Washington - Dulles will see their service not return.

 

[TheRatmeister]

Looks like Norse Atlantic will not be returning to Boston for the NS24 season. Both Boston and Washington - Dulles will see their service not return.

darn no more venture capital subsidized flights to London.

 

[adamh8297]

Unless you are connecting in YYZ (or they intend to vastly undercut the prices of Porter's flights to YTZ) I am not sure I understand the target market for these flights.

They must be trying to stimulate leisure travel. Porter is not really a Low Cost Carrier.

I just checked a sample weekend in Toronto for mid-Summer. 7/18-7/21/24

Porter - $503
United coded Air Canada - $476
Air Canada $ 497
Lynx - $265 - includes 35 each way add-on for carry-on.

I did the reverse for Toronto originating

Porter - $423
United coded Air Canada - $444
Air Canada $ 467
Lynx - $283 includes 35 each way add-on for carry-on.