Manchester Infill & Small Developments

pel, I think that's an excellent idea, and fortunately not far off of what the city is calling for in the Master Plan. It specifically calls for shops and restaurants in the mills, and for the Riverwalk to extend from Sundial Ave (Hesser) to West Brook Street, where I think it can connect to the dam via the PSNH Energy Park. I'm not sure about an docks, but it sounds like part of the Riverwalk might be cantilevered over the river from the mills in several sections where the mills line the river.
 
Patrick said:
Oh and I forgot to add that continuing the riverwalk should be the TOP priority. People like to walk along scenic vistas. Nashua has something like that if I am not mistaken. Exeter does, too, and it is beautiful.
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I sometimes walk across the footbridge over the Merrimack. Its nice.
 
FrankLloydMike said:
The UL online provides just a summary of an article about relocating the Armory from its current Canal Street location:



Anyone have any more information on this?

I think it's a bit of a stretch to consider this part of downtown... I'd say it's straddling the area between the North End and what the city is calling The Nob (North of Bridge). Still, this is a very important gateway to the city coming over the Amoskeag Bridge. It's also right next to one of the city's tallest buildings and an apartment high-rise. I think you could see a nice collection of high-rise buildings complimenting the downtown skyline up here. I'd like to see more development in the downtown proper, the Gaslight and a few neighborhood centers first, but this is an important site and good to see some action on Gatsas' part. Let's just hope it doesn't become another Market Basket.
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I agree. Gatsas has been pretty good so far.
 
I agree too, I think Gatsas is helping the city move in the right direction. I really would love to see the armory site redeveloped, just as long as it's not a mini mall. This could be another nice gateway into the city and link the northern end of the Millyard to Elm Street.
 
It definitely seems that Gatsas is more in the vein of Baines than Guinta--he seems to really care about the city and is working to spur development and continue to improve the city.

For anyone unfamiliar with the Armory site in question, I wanted to just post an image of it from an old postcard (it should be noted that a bridge onramp now blocks it from the river and it is surrounded by parking lots not woods), as well as a map of the site. My understanding is that the site includes the armory building, the parking lots to the south and east, plus possibly the parking lot at the corner of Elm and West Salmon Streets.

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I'm wondering what people think about the possibility of retaining the armory building as part of a larger site redevelopment. Manchester preserved an earlier armory building, which I wound consider a more attractive building, right downtown as part of the Center of NH, and Portland has preserved a similar armory downtown. The armory is a reasonably attractive building and seems to function well as a large hall. It also fits nicely with the old, art deco part of the New Hampshire/Brady-Sullivan Tower north of West Salmon (though they face opposite directions and are never seen together). I think with new buildings along Canal and West Pennacook, and especially at the corner of Elm and West Salmon, the armory could fit nicely into a redevelopment scheme. I'm just not sure what role the armory would fill. I could just as easily see losing the armory building with new mid or high-rise buildings on the site. I'm not in favor of saving every older building simply for sentimental reasons, especially one so detached from the urban fabric, but I do think Manchester should at least carefully consider all the options before demolishing any more older buildings.
 
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FrankLloydMike said:
It definitely seems that Gatsas is more in the vein of Baines than Guinta--he seems to really care about the city and is working to spur development and continue to improve the city.

For anyone unfamiliar with the Armory site in question, I wanted to just post an image of it from an old postcard (it should be noted that a bridge onramp now blocks it from the river and it is surrounded by parking lots not woods), as well as a map of the site. My understanding is that the site includes the armory building, the parking lots to the south and east, plus possibly the parking lot at the corner of Elm and West Salmon Streets.

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I'm wondering what people think about the possibility of retaining the armory building as part of a larger site redevelopment. Manchester preserved an earlier armory building, which I wound consider a more attractive building, right downtown as part of the Center of NH, and Portland has preserved a similar armory downtown. The armory is a reasonably attractive building and seems to function well as a large hall. It also fits nicely with the old, art deco part of the New Hampshire/Brady-Sullivan Tower north of West Salmon (though they face opposite directions and are never seen together). I think with new buildings along Canal and West Pennacook, and especially at the corner of Elm and West Salmon, the armory could fit nicely into a redevelopment scheme. I'm just not sure what role the armory would fill. I could just as easily see losing the armory building with new mid or high-rise buildings on the site. I'm not in favor of saving every older building simply for sentimental reasons, especially one so detached from the urban fabric, but I do think Manchester should at least carefully consider all the options before demolishing any more older buildings.
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I think that the armory could be redeveloped to be a museum. Either that or a mini Quincy Market, if there were a market for it. Give incentives for the tenants to stay there and invest in the area and to the future of the riverwalk.
 
I think that the armory could be redeveloped to be a museum. Either that or a mini Quincy Market, if there were a market for it. Give incentives for the tenants to stay there and invest in the area and to the future of the riverwalk.
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It's pretty obvious, but in thinking about the site as a gateway and the very end of what can be considered downtown, I completely forgot that it's pretty ideally situated at the end of the Riverwalk, too.

I could be wrong, but I think it might be too big to support a Quincy-style market (or even a Portland Public Market type), and personally I'd rather see a market more downtown, but who knows. I could see it as part of a larger convention center, but again I think that should be closer to the center of the city.

It's certainly not the most exciting use, but I wonder if the building and the rest of the site could be adapted to retail use (with residential and offices above in the new construction). The site is huge, and with a parking structure and better transit, I think the city could lure some retailers who typically head farther afield to move in. I could see a bookstore, grocery store, or outdoors store respectfully renovating the armory space into a great retail area. Especially given the location at the end of the Riverwalk, I think something like an EMS flagship (closest big-ish city to their Peterborough HQ) or LL Bean store could be great, and would serve as a sort of anchor for downtown retail maybe.
 
There won't be word until the fall, but the Nashua Telegraph sees the extension of the Downeaster to Brunswick (construction began today) as a positive sign looking forward to development of the Capitol Corridor between Concord and Boston:

Downeaster boosts hopes for NH rail (editorial)

While New Hampshire officials await word on their second bid for a $1.4 million federal rail grant, perhaps they can take some encouragement from what?s happening less than 100 miles away in their neighbor to the north.
First, the Northern New England Passenger Rail Authority announced last week that Amtrak?s Downeaster service finished the fiscal year with an increase in ridership over the previous year and an all-time high in ticket revenue.
Then, on Monday, Maine and federal rail officials marked the ceremonial start of a two-year construction project to expand Downeaster passenger rail service between Portland and Brunswick, thanks to a $35 million infusion of federal stimulus money.
That?s the kind of activity New Hampshire passenger rail enthusiasts can only dream about as they await the next step in the process to restore commuter rail service to the southern part of the state.
While all its New England neighbors got a portion of $8 billion set aside for high-speed passenger rail projects under the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, the state was shut out in its bid for a mere $1.4 million for design and engineering work on its New Hampshire Capitol Rail Corridor.
That project, which was approved in 2008, calls for providing passenger rail service from Concord to Boston at speeds up to 79 mph in less than 90 minutes. When complete, up to six passenger rail stations would be built in Concord, downtown Manchester, Manchester-Boston Regional Airport, Merrimack, Hooksett and Nashua.
Should the state be successful in this round of funding ? it should know sometime this fall ? then the next step would be to apply for $300 million to cover its capital costs, which would include a locomotive and rail cars, four train stations and the necessary track improvements along the 73-mile corridor.
But additional federal funding isn?t the only hitch ? there?s still the matter of working out an agreement with Pan Am Railways, which has emerged as a key obstacle to the New Hampshire Rail Transit Authority?s plans to provide daily passenger rail service between Concord and Boston.
Pan Am, which owns the track between Concord and the Massachusetts line, broke off negotiations last year after state transportation officials blocked its bid to operate a freight line between Milford and Bennington.
Coincidentally, Pan Am also owns the track in Maine, but it has an agreement with Amtrak to operate the Downeaster between Portland and Boston. In fact, David Fink, the president of Pan Am Railways, was among the dignitaries present for Monday?s ceremony marking the beginning of the 35-mile expansion of rail service between Portland and Brunswick.
During the fiscal year that ended June 30, ridership on the Downeaster rose 1 percent over the previous year to 474,058 passengers. To put that figure into some perspective, the Portland-to-Boston rail service carried 245,135 passengers in its initial year, meaning ridership has nearly doubled during that eight-year period.
Moreover, ticket revenue reached a record high of $6.7 million, which pretty much equaled the combined federal ($5.3 million) and state ($1.3 million) subsidies for the 2009-10 fiscal year.
Closer to home, we have been a strong advocate for reintroducing passenger rail service between Nashua and Boston for a long time ? hence its spot this year on our Agenda 2010.
And while we don?t object to the state?s more expansive plan to provide rail service between Concord and Boston, our primary interest is in the Nashua-to-Boston leg, which but for a one-year pilot program in 1981 hasn?t been an option for Greater Nashua commuters in 43 years.
We can only hope the excitement that was evident Monday among train enthusiasts in Maine will soon be felt here in southern New Hampshire as well.
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I'm really looking forward to being able to take the train to visit home personally, plus all the development commuter rail should spur.
 
The development will definitely come with the train. I think the Downeaster has certainly helped the communities it serves. For example, downtown Dover has evolved from a sleepy downtown to one that is trying to become more like Portsmouth. Exeter is already expanding their station and Durham had to add a new commuter lot. The new service will benefit Manchester the most. Not only will the city get a boost with new downtown development, but the airport will have easy access to any city without the need of a rental car. Additionally, a new parking garage will earn the city a lot of money. I wonder where the station will go now that Market Basket is going on the old site of the original train station. I think a good site would be by the Amoskeag Bridge with the armory site for a garage and a mixed use development. The ballpark area could also work.
 
ManchVegas said:
... I wonder where the station will go now that Market Basket is going on the old site of the original train station. I think a good site would be by the Amoskeag Bridge with the armory site for a garage and a mixed use development. The ballpark area could also work.
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My hope is that the Market Basket will be treated like any other retail lessor (assuming the city isn't selling them the land) and will be given space in a larger redevelopment of that site. The master plan of just a few months ago still calls for an intermodal station on that site, and even includes an example of a possible site plan. The one they show has a station along Canal & West Auburn streets with a large parking garage lining the tracks behind this (not sure if there would be retail on the first floor or just parking), with mixed-use redevelopment along the corner of West Auburn & Elm and continuing down Elm Street. I know a study awhile back suggested attracting a grocery store as part of the intermodal redevelopment, so whether it was on the first floor of the garage or as part of the mixed use along Elm, I don't think the Market Basket is necessarily out-of-line with the long-term goal, but it has to be properly integrated into a larger project.

This really is the best site for a station, it's the historic location, it would anchor the south end of downtown, spur development of the Gaslight district, use the new Granite Street gateway, and drop people by destinations like the arena and ballpark. And the site is really ripe for huge redevelopment--I hope a short-term gain like attracting a downtown grocery store doesn't destroy the huge gains of an intermodal station here that would actually make this area part of downtown. I remember seeing somewhere (I can't remember where) that the alternative site for an intermodal station is on the Bedford Street lot between Spring Street and Bridge Street overpass. This wouldn't be bad as it would drop people right in the middle of downtown, but it wouldn't be part of a huge site redevelopment, which would also be part of the Armory site as you suggested.
 
I think retaining the armory as part of a larger development is a great idea. Portland's armory, though, is kind of off the beaten trail, not so much downtown. I guess its better that we kept ours, now used primarily for high school basket ball and discount fairs (oh yeah, and the Redclaws, which are great), because I can only imagine a gas station there if we removed it, but it doesn't really count in my opinion as part of the "Portland" that people come to see. That "portland" is up the hill, so the city vibe in general would not have changed much if we demolished it. That being said, I don't know where this is in Manchester, so I can't comment about whether it would be better to preserve or replace. The building certainly looks neat. Facadism is generally frowned upon, so any larger development might have to connect in another way (from the side, or not at all, i.e. be located next to the building but not touch it). I like the idea of turning it into a market. I think once this stupid recession ends, Manchester is poised to continue its long climb back to prominence. It was doing great, as were many places, until the economy tanked. Its not doing terrible now, but I think once people are in more of an entrepreneurial mood, the place will liven up again naturally.
 
Just saw an article from the UL online about the Market Basket, and it doesn't sound like it bodes well for positive redevelopment there:

MANCHESTER ? Engineers for Market Basket have asked the city to install another traffic light on Elm Street and change the driving lanes in front of the store.
The request is making its way through both the Planning Board process and to the Board of Mayor and Aldermen, both of which need to sign-off on these traffic plans.
Kenneth Rhodes, senior vice president of CLD Consulting Engineering, the firm designing the new Elm Street Market Basket, gave a presentation to the Committee on Public Safety, Health and Traffic last night, one of the committees that must give the go-ahead on their proposal.
The committee gave its recommendation and the proposal is heading to the full Board of Mayor and Aldermen.
Rhodes said the Market Basket stairwell tower on Elm Street will have a roof and awning that extends above the right-of-way. The stairwell bringing people from the sidewalk to the Market Basket parking lot would be built entirely on private land, Rhodes said, but the proposal needs approval to use the air rights above the public sidewalk.
The aldermen would also have to agree to installing a new traffic light at the driveway on the southern end of the former Rockwell Automation facility. Rhodes also requested making Elm Street two lanes heading south-bound and one travel lane heading north, with left-hand turning lanes at the new traffic light and the lights at Auburn and Valley streets.
CLD also proposed renovating the sidewalk along the property, narrowing it from 14 to 12 feet wide, eliminating 21 parking spaces on Elm Street and building a new curb bump-out at the corner of Elm and Auburn.
The proposed store would be the largest Market Basket in the state when it's slated to open in early 2011. The proposed hours would be from 7 a.m. to 9 p.m. Monday through Saturday and 7 a.m. to 7 p.m. on Sundays.
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It's frustrating how much digging it takes to find any information about development and planning on the city's website these days. I know how much the UL hates the idea of rail transit, but it's also frustrating that neither the paper nor the city seems to even mention how long this site has been planned as a future intermodal station site.

I doubt this will be the case, but if the Market Basket would build something along Elm Street like this store in Chelsea with some parking behind or below it, and reserving the back of the site for the intermodal station, I'd be satisfied.

Chelsea_mb.jpg
 
I suggest you write an editorial. The paper will probably publish it. Highlight the points you've made here and raise some eyebrows (and attention). I think all of your ideas are great and I am quite frankly surprised that they aren't more commonsensical to others. Also, the hours should be increased, to make downtown more of a 24 hour destination. Supermarkets in Portland don't close until 11. I don't know about elsewhere.
 
good thinking on the editorial/letter... those of us who want to see a better Manchester, but are otherwise involved should speak up more, including myself. I think I'll do it.

As far as the armory in Portland, I was actually thinking of the one that is part of the Regency Hotel downtown, which is similar to the older armory that is part of a hotel/convention center in downtown Manchester. I wasn't aware that the Expo had been an armory, but that seems pretty similar to the one in question in Manchester. The current armory is still much closer to downtown than the Expo in Portland and very prominent when entering from the north, though still on the far fringe of downtown.

Some better news than what is (presumably) being proposed at the Rockwell/460 Elm site (Market Basket) is what the city is seeking to get built just across the river. They're dubbing what is now a high school parking lot at Granite & Second Streets "Granite Landing" and the conceptual plans they have look like they'd make an excellent impression entering the city as well as extending some urban vibrancy to Granite Square. From the Economic Development website:

...approximately three-quarters of an acre, along with air rights over a public right-of-way between the parcels, and a second approximately three-quarters of an acre parcel owned by the Manchester Development Corporation (MDC) for urban-scale, commercial office, retail or mixed-use development. These properties are located in a highly visible, high traffic area adjacent to I-293 Exit 5 at the gateway into Downtown and West Side Manchester.
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video of a conceptual building for the site
 
Wow that would be an incredible addition to the city if it were built, especially at that particular spot. That corner IMO has a lot of potential to be a little concentration of great development especially if even one project like that is put up. I posted a lot on here about Manch about six months ago and at the time it seemed like nothing was going one, where is all this development new coming from all of a sudden?
 
FrankLloydMike, the Armory that Patrick is referring to is not The Expo on Park Avenue. Our Armory is actually located on Stevens Avenue which is about 3 or 4 miles from downtown and I think it is still used by the Army National Guard.

The Expo has always been used as an arena for concerts, basketball, trade shows and a lot of boxing in the old days. It now has a seating capacity of around 3500 for the Maine Red Claws D League basketball games.
 
Thanks for the correction, for some reason I thought the expo used to be an armory. The armory lounge and regency hotel downtown are a major improvement it seems. The expo on Park should be part of a more vibrant all day neighborhood, but instead it empties out whenever an event isn't going on. So much potential there as the city transitions into libbytown. anyway, yeah, listen to Portlander, I don't have my facts as straight as I thought.
 
PS cool rendering for Manchester...concept or proposal? Looks like the surrounding neighborhood needs to be built up a bit too if this is to fit in.
 
FrankLloydMike,

You should send a letter to the Hippo too. I really like your idea of putting the Market Basket right up against Elm St. I think setting it back in the current building will add nothing to that part of Elm in terms of pedestrian traffic or a downtown kind of atmosphere. The UnionMisLeader hates rail, but the good news is that it isn't dead yet.

I didn't know about the Granite Square project until now. How long has that been in the works? This would be a perfect addition to that side of the river.
 
FrankLloydMike said:
Just saw an article from the UL online about the Market Basket, and it doesn't sound like it bodes well for positive redevelopment there:



It's frustrating how much digging it takes to find any information about development and planning on the city's website these days. I know how much the UL hates the idea of rail transit, but it's also frustrating that neither the paper nor the city seems to even mention how long this site has been planned as a future intermodal station site.

I doubt this will be the case, but if the Market Basket would build something along Elm Street like this store in Chelsea with some parking behind or below it, and reserving the back of the site for the intermodal station, I'd be satisfied.

Chelsea_mb.jpg
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That would be awesome if they would build the Market Basket right up along the street.

BTW I frequently have problems opening up some of you links. I tried opening you link to the Union Leader in Firefox and Google chrome and it didn't work for me.
 
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