Mattapan

[rinserepeat]

If you look past the crime in the northern part of the neighborhood, I actually think Mattapan has potential - you're still relatively close in to the city, if the Fairmount line gets DMUs and much more frequent service you're 10 minutes from downtown, although there aren't many parks within the neighborhood, you have easy access to Franklin and Harambee in the north, the nature center on the western edge, the Neponsit River Greenway along the south, and you're only a few miles from Blue Hills. The housing stock is a bit of a mix - many pre-war modest (and cute) houses, a handful of weird streets with post-war homes, some triple deckers and small apartment buildings, and then there's that depressing urban renewal era housing project next to Harambee. I remember reading someplace that Mattapan has a fairly high rate of home ownership - so that means there are many people invested in the community - which is good.

there are several small commercial areas that could be built up (especially around the new Fairmount Stops), and Mattapan Square, which unfortunately is somewhat cut off from the northern part of the neighborhood by the CR tracks surrounding by an expanse of parking, is a major node that has direct connections between Roslindale and Milton.

The main issues are that there are several vacant lots and abandoned buildings in crucial commercial areas, Blue Hill Ave is way too wide in many spots (IMO, should be a focus of revitalization - I'd like to see it get the "silver line" extension, could definitely use some nice "street-scaping...), Morton Street And Talbot Ave needs some serious attention - and next to Franklin Park - both American Legion and Morton street really needs to be made more bike/ped friendly. it's currently impossible to walk down morton street to the park.

Anyone else's thoughts?

 

[Shepard]

I doubt that Mattapan will see gentrification anytime soon. Much more likely to first see Roxbury (already happening), Upham's Corner (Fairmount Line potential), Dot Ave corridor (already happening somewhat) and Ashmont (already happening). All these places are much closer to downtown and have far better transit access than Mattapan does.

My Crazy Transit Pitch for Mattapan is to extend the "High Speed" line up Blue Hill Ave and Warren into Dudley, to meet the Green Line there - not sure where they'd find the necessary amount of PCCs for that, though.

 

[rinserepeat]

Mattapan's transit access is about as good as Roslindale's - and Roslindale is a pretty hot neighborhood right now. You're a 10 minute bus ride from Forest Hills, and if you live in the northern part of the neighborhood - a short bike ride through a nice wooded area to the SW corridor and emerald necklace paths (although navigating shea circle is a major issue). You can get from mattapan square to the back bay in about 30-35 minutes by bike - or to coolidge corner in about 40 minutes.

 

[underground]

For whatever reason(s), seems like gentrification is pushing north faster than it's pushing south. Somerville's already the new Cambridge, Medford's quickly getting there too, and even the 6-months-behind-trend Globe has articles about Everett and Chelsea. South of downtown we've got the slow push of the desirable South End towards Melnea Cass and 93, the slow push of desirable JP towards Washington St and Forest Hills, Roslindale, and not much other than that. Mattapan's got a lot going for it, and could be a good long term investment for someone looking to buy, but I'd give it a long time.

 

[Max Power]

For whatever reason(s), seems like gentrification is pushing north faster than it's pushing south. Somerville's already the new Cambridge, Medford's quickly getting there too, and even the 6-months-behind-trend Globe has articles about Everett and Chelsea. South of downtown we've got the slow push of the desirable South End towards Melnea Cass and 93, the slow push of desirable JP towards Washington St and Forest Hills, Roslindale, and not much other than that. Mattapan's got a lot going for it, and could be a good long term investment for someone looking to buy, but I'd give it a long time.

South Boston?

Anyways, I don't see gentrification happening any time soon in Mattapan. It's too far away from the action. Maybe 20 years from now.

 

[commuter guy]

Back in the late 90's to early to mid 2000's, I lived in Roslindale and was involved in economic development efforts as a resident and volunteer. Roslindale Sq. saw dramatic change in that era with much new investment and restaurant openings etc. In particular, a critical mass of new restaurants opened. We conducted surveys of diners and were quite surprised to see a very large number of restaurant patrons coming from Brookline and Newton. This extra source of consumer disposable income gave a shot in the arm to the neighborhood during the early stages of this economic revitalization.

From time to time I'd meet people from Dorchester, Ashmont etc. who would wonder what the secret was to Roslindale's success, Dorchester had not yet been able to jump start itself. I always speculated Roslindale benefited from the high disposable income of those coming in from adjacent high income areas. It took longer and perhaps the changes were not as dramatic, but eventually the same type of changes did spread to parts of Dorchester and W. Rox.

I think it's going to take Mattapan longer than Dorchester to gentrify. There are areas of Dorchester that are just better located. Overall the housing mix is more varied in Dorchester, but the area's that are desirable have more aesthetic charm and potential than Mattapan.

 

[George_Apley]

I doubt that Mattapan will see gentrification anytime soon. Much more likely to first see Roxbury (already happening), Upham's Corner (Fairmount Line potential), Dot Ave corridor (already happening somewhat) and Ashmont (already happening). All these places are much closer to downtown and have far better transit access than Mattapan does.

My Crazy Transit Pitch for Mattapan is to extend the "High Speed" line up Blue Hill Ave and Warren into Dudley, to meet the Green Line there - not sure where they'd find the necessary amount of PCCs for that, though.

Hell, HRT the "High Speed Line." Convert it to full Red. Get 18-20 min headways on Indigo, 60' articulated for the 28, and bring Green to Dudley. That's the sort of transit investment this neighborhood deserves.

 

[Matthew]

Route 28 uses 60' buses already.

I think the key to revitalization of Mattapan will be fixing Blue Hill Ave. That street is like a highway, and it shouldn't be. Whether or not that means bringing a trolley back, I don't know. The Blue Hill Ave station on Fairmount should help a bit when it finally opens with decent amounts of service.

Also, hopefully the city can bring along lessons learned about affordable housing with what's going on right now at Dudley.

 

[George_Apley]

Route 28 uses 60' buses already.

I think the key to revitalization of Mattapan will be fixing Blue Hill Ave. That street is like a highway, and it shouldn't be. Whether or not that means bringing a trolley back, I don't know. The Blue Hill Ave station on Fairmount should help a bit when it finally opens with decent amounts of service.

Also, hopefully the city can bring along lessons learned about affordable housing with what's going on right now at Dudley.

Traffic calming would be great. Either bus lanes or cycle tracks or both...

 

[rinserepeat]

South Boston?

Anyways, I don't see gentrification happening any time soon in Mattapan. It's too far away from the action. Maybe 20 years from now.

That whole area of green along American Legion might as well be an ocean separating Mattapan from from the western half of the city.

right now the "gentrification" in JP is butting up against Franklin Park from the west and is currently spilling into Egleston. The crime problems in Four Corners is unfortunately acting as a bit of a buffer... but once the Casey overpass comes down, suddenly we've got the beginning of a better connection between Mattapan and Forest Hills. A couple things need to happen, though - American legion and Morton Street should become a signaled intersection - and then all that weird area (and that lot where people in stony brook wants to move the bus depot) could get developed (either buildings or more green space).

You're not THAT far from the action if you consider the Morton Street connection.

Also - if you think about it this way, then Councilor Yancy's objections to the arborway yard relocation proposal start making a little more sense. it's too bad that all that newer development along that edge is so suburban...

 

[FK4]

That whole area of green along American Legion might as well be an ocean separating Mattapan from from the western half of the city.

right now the "gentrification" in JP is butting up against Franklin Park from the west and is currently spilling into Egleston. The crime problems in Four Corners is unfortunately acting as a bit of a buffer... but once the Casey overpass comes down, suddenly we've got the beginning of a better connection between Mattapan and Forest Hills. A couple things need to happen, though - American legion and Morton Street should become a signaled intersection - and then all that weird area (and that lot where people in stony brook wants to move the bus depot) could get developed (either buildings or more green space).

You're not THAT far from the action if you consider the Morton Street connection.

Also - if you think about it this way, then Councilor Yancy's objections to the arborway yard relocation proposal start making a little more sense. it's too bad that all that newer development along that edge is so suburban...

It's funny/disgusting how JP is agitating, successfully, to get all the public works and MBTA stuff on Washington to move into Mattapan - and on top of FRANKLIN PARK land, no less.

I don't care that the area of Franklin Park is currently used for a landscaping business - it's revolting that a gentrifying neighborhood is able to push unsightly operations into a less affluent neighborhood. And even worse still, that it's on land that originally was meant to be parkland.

Washington Street is ugly and blighted. At least the Am. Legion Hwy looks nice, regardless of how pedestrian unfriendly/divisive it may be. I'm sad that someday buses will be sitting around leaking oil down by Walk Hill. I don't think that's cool at all.

Edit: I'm really glad Yancy is speaking up (didn't see anything about the pole yard, though, which I think is already a definite). Until Yancy spoke up, nobody seemed to care about how blatant this is.

 

[JohnCostello]

Ashmont (already happening).

I hate this comment. As someone who lived on Ashmont Street from 1974 until 1991 (and my mother still lives there), it was always a nice area, with fraying around the station. Just because someone from Oberlin is now living in the area doesn't mean it is gentrifying. They are just someone else who has a little bit of more money than the rest of Dorchester replacing someone who has a little bit more personal income than the rest of Dot.

The area was built from the ground up as a middle class area. Ashmont Hill and Carruth Street were laid out as well to do areas and have always maintained this status.

I had three doctors living within 6 houses of me in 1978. The Fitzgeralds (as in the F in JFK) lived on Rundel Park from the early 1900's until the 1980's. The housing stock has always been kept up. Do you have a Cram designed church in your neighborhood?

What is happening there is not gentrification. It is status quo with Audi 3's instead of Lincolns for transport.

Is Douglas Shand Tucci on these boards? He will back me up.

 

[Shepard]

^ Not denying parts of Dot are and have been very nice. I've spent some time in the area and know first hand. I'm using the word gentrification in a very narrow sense, and perhaps it's the wrong word: a neighborhood to which recent college grads, young professionals, and empty-nesters are increasingly moving. This makes no judgment about the state of the neighborhood beforehand.

Anyway - I'm not up for arguing the definition of "gentrification" - I'll leave that to others...

 

[JohnCostello]

^ Not denying parts of Dot are and have been very nice. I've spent some time in the area and know first hand. I'm using the word gentrification in a very narrow sense, and perhaps it's the wrong word: a neighborhood to which recent college grads, young professionals, and empty-nesters are increasingly moving. This makes no judgment about the state of the neighborhood beforehand.

Anyway - I'm not up for arguing the definition of "gentrification" - I'll leave that to others...

You could have written "recent college grads, young professionals, and empty nesters" about my neighborhood in 1978.

 

[rinserepeat]

It's funny/disgusting how JP is agitating, successfully, to get all the public works and MBTA stuff on Washington to move into Mattapan - and on top of FRANKLIN PARK land, no less.

I don't care that the area of Franklin Park is currently used for a landscaping business - it's revolting that a gentrifying neighborhood is able to push unsightly operations into a less affluent neighborhood. And even worse still, that it's on land that originally was meant to be parkland.

Washington Street is ugly and blighted. At least the Am. Legion Hwy looks nice, regardless of how pedestrian unfriendly/divisive it may be. I'm sad that someday buses will be sitting around leaking oil down by Walk Hill. I don't think that's cool at all.

Edit: I'm really glad Yancy is speaking up (didn't see anything about the pole yard, though, which I think is already a definite). Until Yancy spoke up, nobody seemed to care about how blatant this is.

The weird strip-mall section of American Legion in Roslindale isn't so great, though - but I think that development happened sometime in the 70s...

There is a ton of interest in building up Washington street - it won't be as ugly and blighted for much longer... I think there are ways to accommodate the bus yard behind more street-focused development, though... it's a shame that the MBTA has sat on it for so long that people in the neighborhood are now proposing to move it. I keep thinking that the MBTA really should only be focusing on operations, and leave property development up to MassDOT and the municipalities.

I'm also glad Yancy is speaking up - there are 4 councilors who essentially represent areas around Franklin Park - so it's unfortunately a bit of a forgotten corner of the city. It really shouldn't be a place where we just dump all the "unwanted uses" out of sight - and I really wish there was better leadership from the city to make sure that the WHOLE area is thought of and not just neighborhoods pitted against other neighborhoods and council districts pitted against other council districts and different orgs only focused on their own little corners. It's our largest and most central green space in the city, and IMO, really should be thought of as the heart of the city - a connected whole - not our backyard.

 

[Randomgear]

The Arborway Yard is an inappropriate use along the Arborway that will exist once the Casey comes down. The proposed yard itself is a quarter billion dollar transportation boondoggle for a measly 100 buses. Since it appears that the MBTA will no longer be needing a CNG bus yard once the current fleet goes out of service, it's going to have to be redesigned at the very least to accommodate diesel; hopefully some thought will go into relocating it, possibly to the proposed site on ALH or another location.

Land adjacent to a transit hub needs to be used for Transit Oriented Development if we ever want to reduce automobile mode share.

FK4, Let's see if I'm understanding this right, Zoo New England leases a chunk of land from DCR 30 years ago for overflow parking, never used it for overflow parking, and because of that, the area becomes part of Olmstead's Franklin Park?

And Yancey seemed miffed that he wasn't consulted before anyone else looked at it. True, bus yards in Boston have gotten bad raps, but honestly, how much worse can they be than a composting center?

 

[George_Apley]

Where are some ideas for these sorts of undesirable land uses? I find that I fall into the trap of wanting to redevelop every plot of desirable land for "better uses" but quickly realize that infrastructure supports like bus yard have to be somewhere...