MBTA Fare System (Charlie, AFC 2.0, Zone, Discounts)

[Badusername]

will Cubic aggregate all taps from a single card and run it at the end of each day, so that your round trip is a single charge?

Are there systems that do this? I would assume batch processing of transactions would create loopholes where you could use a prepaid debit card with 0$ value on it and the transaction wouldn’t fail until the end of the day, giving unlimited free rides.

 

[Teban54]

It also means that if you're visiting NYC from a Wednesday to next Tuesday you'll cap twice, which is annoying. Last time I went to NYC I got a Metrocard because it lets you use a 7-day pass starting at any point.

That's not how it works though. From the OMNY fare capping explanations:

Your first tap starts a new seven-day cap. If you spend $34 within seven days, you ride free for the rest of the cap period. If you spend less, you only pay for the rides you take.

The cap resets every seven days and restarts with your next tap. Express buses, group trips, and transfers do not count toward the cap. The Reduced-Fare cap is $17.

So if you visit NYC on Wednesday, May 8 and tap for the first time on that day, the 12-trip fare cap period lasts until Tuesday, May 14. If your next tap after the period is on May 18, it starts a new 7-day period that ends on May 24.

 

[TheRatmeister]

That's not how it works though. From the OMNY fare capping explanations:

So if you visit NYC on Wednesday, May 8 and tap for the first time on that day, the 12-trip fare cap period lasts until Tuesday, May 14. If your next tap after the period is on May 18, it starts a new 7-day period that ends on May 24.

It appears this was changed at the end of last year, so I did not have access to that when I visited. Still a welcome change though.

 

[thepixelnation]

It appears this was changed at the end of last year, so I did not have access to that when I visited. Still a welcome change though.

Yeah I also remember a slew of ads on the subway saying "if you hit 13 before sunday, you ride free", but I guess they didn't want to make a whole new slew of ads

 

[Stlin]

Are there systems that do this?

I can't tell you which transit systems do so, but given that there's a entire section entitled "Contactless Transit Aggregated Transactions" in the Mastercard Rules (similar exist in Visa/Amex) it definitely happens.

I would assume batch processing of transactions would create loopholes where you could use a prepaid debit card with 0$ value on it and the transaction wouldn’t fail until the end of the day, giving unlimited free rides.

A Visa subsidiary has an API for that, which follows this flowchart, but in short if your card is declined it'll add to a deny list, which means it won't open a gate for that card in the future. However if you did tap that denied card again in the future, and you now have money in the account, it'll charge it for your debts (previously unpaid rides + any fees) and then unblock it if it goes through. I think this counts on the fact that cards don't grow on trees, so there's a hassle hurdle in getting an unending supply of invalid cards.

 

[as02143]

I can't tell you which transit systems do so, but given that there's a entire section entitled "Contactless Transit Aggregated Transactions" in the Mastercard Rules (similar exist in Visa/Amex) it definitely happens.
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This sounds similar to how Uber and Lyft process their payments as aggregated single payments for the course of a day.

 

[bakgwailo]

Are there systems that do this? I would assume batch processing of transactions would create loopholes where you could use a prepaid debit card with 0$ value on it and the transaction wouldn’t fail until the end of the day, giving unlimited free rides.

Loopholes? Just wait for some kids from MIT to bust out the war cart again. Or maybe just some high school kids will figure out some workarounds in the new system.

 

[Justbuildit]

Can't find the official announcement on their website (classic) but it looks like the MBTA told their Board that the new fare system is coming online this summer for the T and buses, with full rollout across the system by 2026(!!). As reported by the Globe...

Soon, T riders will be able to hop on the subway or bus with a tap of their phones or credit card - The Boston Globe

Come summer, riders will be able to tap their smartphones or credit cards to pay MBTA subway and bus fares.

www.bostonglobe.com

Come summer, riders will be able to tap their smartphones or credit cards to pay MBTA subway and bus fares, the agency said Thursday. The announcement marks the long-awaited roll out of the T’s new fare system that is years behind schedule and hundreds of millions over budget.

After more than six years of starts and stops, MBTA staff told the agency’s board of directors Thursday that the new fare system will be fully functional by Spring 2026, including new Charlie Cards, new vending machines, and contactless payment on commuter rail and ferries.

“Contactless payment — bus and subway — is right around the corner,” said T General Manager Phillip Eng in an interview. “It’s that type of thing not only for our regular riders but for visitors that make it so much better to use our system, and we’re excited about it.”

 

[WestMedford]

AFC 2.0 Amendment Deck

Here’s the presentation to coincide with the Board discussion and approval later today to amend AFC 2.0 agreement to allow public rollout to happen this summer and also save $41 million.

 

[RandomWalk]

Nice to see the progress. Selfishly, I am annoyed that my corporate pass won’t be covered until next year.

 

[as02143]

Did anyone catch when they are going to do all door boarding?

If they are pushing that back to trade for contactless payment, they have their priorities backward.

 

[BosMaineiac]

Did anyone catch when they are going to do all door boarding?

If they are pushing that back to trade for contactless payment, they have their priorities backward.

Don't you need contactless payment in order to have all door boarding? I would assume they start out with contactless boarding at the front of the bus for a while and then they activate the rear door terminal

 

[TheRatmeister]

Did anyone catch when they are going to do all door boarding?

If they are pushing that back to trade for contactless payment, they have their priorities backward.

I'd assume contactless payment and all-door boarding will be simultaneous.

 

[as02143]

I'd assume contactless payment and all-door boarding will be simultaneous.

Don't you need contactless payment in order to have all door boarding? I would assume they start out with contactless boarding at the front of the bus for a while and then they activate the rear door terminal

I don't see a "why" for contactless and all-door to be simultaneous. The all-door boarding only needs a reader - it doesn't necessarily have to be a contactless reader.

One of the biggest original hype points from the T was the ability to do all-door boarding but they tied this to fare inspectors. I have seen nothing that says the T is hiring fare inspectors.

This makes me very worried that they're either going to put T police on trains with all the awkwardness (and politics) that would comes with visibly-armed officers on the train, or that they've punted on the all-door boarding.

 

[HenryAlan]

Did anyone catch when they are going to do all door boarding?

From the Globe article:

By the end of the summer, riders will be able to board buses and subways by tapping credit cards or smartphones with mobile wallets, allowing for all-door boarding on buses and Green Line trains.

 

[HenryAlan]

I have seen nothing that says the T is hiring fare inspectors.

Also from the Globe article:

The T is in the process of hiring 16 fare engagement officers who will be trained and start interacting with riders of buses and the Green Line by early winter, the agency said. Later, the officers will begin writing tickets for people they find have not paid fares.

 

[TheRatmeister]

"allowing for all-door boarding on buses and Green Line trains." doesn't necessarily mean they will do it though, it just means that they could do it if they wanted to. Is this a meaningful distinction? Probably not, but I figure it's worth pointing out.

 

[HenryAlan]

Yes, I thought about that particular wording, too. It might be wishful thinking, but I'm going to take that to be a confirmation that all door boarding is a planned feature.

 

[WestMedford]

I’m all for speeding things up with all door boarding. However, won’t this worsen fare evasion? I’ve been on enough surface trolleys where the driver opens the back doors because of a big crowd and everyone says to themselves “hey, a free ride” as they all pile in through the non- driver doorways. The T has in a way conditioned folks to think this way because it’s always been this case in the past. It’s going to difficult IMHO to shake this expectation with the new all door offering.

I’ve seen fare engagement personnel active on Seattle’s LINK LRVs and probably for personal safety reasons they travel in pairs at a minimum. So if the T is hiring 16 of them we’re talking about at the most eight pairs of enforcement personnel across all MBTA buses and Green Line surface coverage? That seems like a drop of water in a bucket.

Once monthly pass riders start to see the freeloaders walk into through the back I can’t imagine they’ll be renewing their passes. I’d hope the all-door boarding would be reserved for crush boarding situations and not all the time. Maybe there are controls like this that’ll be implemented to reduce fare evasion, but it’s going to take a lot of public education to get folks to tap if a driver isn’t glaring at them.

Maybe this line of thinking / viewpoint is antiquated nowadays, but I feel like it’s a reasonable concern about human behavior that may not always be honorable.

 

[HenryAlan]

I agree that 16 fare engagement officers seems too low, but that may just be the initial class of hires, not a limit on total number. As far as how it works, proof of payment is pretty well established around the world and has shown to be quite effective. Most people will pay because we are conditioned to see that as the right thing to do. Those who won't, will risk hefty fines. It is one thing to board through a back door and pretend that you have a monthly pass when there is a crush load. But once people are accustomed to always being able to board at any door, coupled with the fare tap pads being located at each door, I suspect most will pay.