MBTA Fare System (Charlie, AFC 2.0, Zone, Discounts)

Wonk said:
It won't be laid out as currently shown.
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Why would they bother getting NFPA and vendor approval and then move it?? lol. Bathrooms tend to be outside of gated areas at stations. Vendors tend to be a mixture of both. Notice how N Station now has a DD on both inside the proposed fare area and outside? Probably not coincidental...
 
Well, the "Bar Access" shown is by itself illegal, unless they mean that will be an new ungated entry into the bar, which defeats the purpose given it has two exits in the gated area. The booze is behind a fence currently for a reason (see pouring license). And then try to convince CR users that they have to pay to pee, given all the seating would be gated.
 
SEPTA recently added gates to access the waiting area. However, there are restrooms on both sides of the fare gates. All the vendors are outside the waiting area.

IMO, the gates should only be to access the platforms. Waiting area + bathroom + vendors should all be outside.

You shouldnt have to chose between grabbing a seat and using the restroom.
 
jass said:
IMO, the gates should only be to access the platforms. Waiting area + bathroom + vendors should all be outside.
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Won't work with our station layouts. Period. The crowding and refuge areas would not work under NFPA nor would it work from a simple crowding perspective. You need an area post ticket gates for people to stand and wait otherwise you get crazy crowds all approaching the barriers at once. Watch south station at rush hour, everyone congregates under the time board then when their train is announced they all swarm at once towards the platform.That would cause crazy traffic jams and lots of unhappy customers if you put ticket gates between there and the platforms. Thats why the plans have the gates pre-waiting area. The idea is people all come in at their average pace from outside, tap in as a steady flow then congregate post ticket gates.
 
HelloBostonHi said:
Won't work with our station layouts. Period. The crowding and refuge areas would not work under NFPA nor would it work from a simple crowding perspective. You need an area post ticket gates for people to stand and wait otherwise you get crazy crowds all approaching the barriers at once. Watch south station at rush hour, everyone congregates under the time board then when their train is announced they all swarm at once towards the platform.That would cause crazy traffic jams and lots of unhappy customers if you put ticket gates between there and the platforms. Thats why the plans have the gates pre-waiting area. The idea is people all come in at their average pace from outside, tap in as a steady flow then congregate post ticket gates.
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Heres a novel idea: Announce the tracks in advance. Like the rest of the 1st world.

Also, you should probably call SEPTA and let them know that it will cause crazy traffic jams and lots of unhappy customers if you put ticket gates between there and the platforms

2016-06-rendering-3.png
 
jass said:
Heres a novel idea: Announce the tracks in advance. Like the rest of the 1st world.
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Bad idea for terminal stations. Works fine for non-terminal stations. Even "the rest of the developed world" doesn't announce tracks very far in advance for terminal stations. For example, back to London Kings Cross somewhere I have experience: they don't announce the track number until boarding, just like here. If you announce it too early you have people crowding the platform while people are trying to get off, you have people getting in the way of staff/engineers etc and it just doesn't work. I agree 100% for just stop-off stations that tracks should be announced well in advance, but terminal stations are just different animals. Imagine south station, you announce two tracks that share a platform before the trains arrive. The crowds would be straight up unsafe, our platforms are narrow.
 
HelloBostonHi said:
https://www.theverge.com/2019/4/30/...omny-contactless-payment-may-31-summer-launch

New York rapidly overtaking us in development speed for their new fare system I see...
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Eh yes and no. They're only testing it at certain stations along the 4/5/6 and it's been works for a while. I think I first heard the grumblings of a fare replacement system before I moved down here almost 5 years ago. I also feel personally that MTA is starting somewhat starting from behind MBTA in terms of fare collection. Right now it's just the paper card that the MTA uses, which you have to swipe manually as oppose to feeding it through the turnstile like MBTA. Not the end of the world, but I feel like when the machine runs it through your less likely to bend it, which could ruin the card. The biggest thing that the MBTA has over the MTA is the charlie card, which isn't new technology by any means, but man do I miss being able to just pull out my wallet and tap it at the turnstile.
 
bobthebuilder said:
Eh yes and no. They're only testing it at certain stations along the 4/5/6 and it's been works for a while. I think I first heard the grumblings of a fare replacement system before I moved down here almost 5 years ago. I also feel personally that MTA is starting somewhat starting from behind MBTA in terms of fare collection. Right now it's just the paper card that the MTA uses, which you have to swipe manually as oppose to feeding it through the turnstile like MBTA. Not the end of the world, but I feel like when the machine runs it through your less likely to bend it, which could ruin the card. The biggest thing that the MBTA has over the MTA is the charlie card, which isn't new technology by any means, but man do I miss being able to just pull out my wallet and tap it at the turnstile.
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I mean March 2016 (https://www.wcvb.com/article/mbta-w...ds-but-it-will-take-more-than-2-years/8233180) the MBTA announced they were going for a new fare collection system and 3 years on I'm still waiting for even the pilot to roll out. Something seems to have stalled and the update scheduled for an April FMCB meeting was postponed to May unfortunately. As far as my internet search can tell the MTA proposed its new system at the same time April 2016 (https://www.amny.com/transit/metrocard-replacement-design-ideas-sought-by-mta-1.11686817)
 
HelloBostonHi said:
Won't work with our station layouts. Period. The crowding and refuge areas would not work under NFPA nor would it work from a simple crowding perspective. You need an area post ticket gates for people to stand and wait otherwise you get crazy crowds all approaching the barriers at once. Watch south station at rush hour, everyone congregates under the time board then when their train is announced they all swarm at once towards the platform.That would cause crazy traffic jams and lots of unhappy customers if you put ticket gates between there and the platforms. Thats why the plans have the gates pre-waiting area. The idea is people all come in at their average pace from outside, tap in as a steady flow then congregate post ticket gates.
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Even worse--we Old Colony riders know our trains will be on tracks 11-13 about 90% of the time, so instead of waiting under the board in the station, we wait at the end of the platform instead. It's a mess, and it happens only because we tend to have everyone worried that they won't get a seat if their train is a small set.
Also, the area by track 13 is open to the post office property--they'll need to fence that off in the future, which means even more people on the platforms. Personally, I hope they'll have enough space between the gates and the platforms to allow those of us running to catch another train in the morning enough time to get where they're going. I come in on the Kingston line and run over to catch a PVD train to go to Back Bay. If I miss that one, I take the subway, but I don't want to get forced into doing that every day because the crowd coming off the train takes too long to clear through the gates.
 
HelloBostonHi said:
I mean March 2016 (https://www.wcvb.com/article/mbta-w...ds-but-it-will-take-more-than-2-years/8233180) the MBTA announced they were going for a new fare collection system and 3 years on I'm still waiting for even the pilot to roll out. Something seems to have stalled and the update scheduled for an April FMCB meeting was postponed to May unfortunately. As far as my internet search can tell the MTA proposed its new system at the same time April 2016 (https://www.amny.com/transit/metrocard-replacement-design-ideas-sought-by-mta-1.11686817)
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MTA actually started testing their replacement....in 2006.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OMNY#Predecessors
 
I really wish there could have been some overarching coordination on these fare system upgrades to allow usage between systems - thinking like how the FastPass basically works across states. Would be nice to use one card to hop on the MBTA, switch to Amtrak, and hop on the MTA at Penn (or DC, or Philly, etc).
 
bakgwailo said:
I really wish there could have been some overarching coordination on these fare system upgrades to allow usage between systems - thinking like how the FastPass basically works across states. Would be nice to use one card to hop on the MBTA, switch to Amtrak, and hop on the MTA at Penn (or DC, or Philly, etc).
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Essentially, you will be able to ride transit in Boston, NYC, Philadelphia, Chicago and a few other places with a Mastercard or Visa. Just tap and go. No need to carry a separate fare card.

SEPTA_Key_Bus_Validator.png
 
jass said:
Essentially, you will be able to ride transit in Boston, NYC, Philadelphia, Chicago and a few other places with a Mastercard or Visa. Just tap and go. No need to carry a separate fare card.

SEPTA_Key_Bus_Validator.png
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Eh, none of my current cards support tapping anymore (and not really wanting that anyways, chip and pin is the way to go). Now, if, I could link my Charlie Card 2.0 and tap that and have it deduct from a linked bank account in other cities (obviously I wouldn't expect my monthly to work), then, that would be perfect and really cool. Just needs some Amtrak integration on the NEC :)
 
bakgwailo said:
Eh, none of my current cards support tapping anymore (and not really wanting that anyways, chip and pin is the way to go). Now, if, I could link my Charlie Card 2.0 and tap that and have it deduct from a linked bank account in other cities (obviously I wouldn't expect my monthly to work), then, that would be perfect and really cool. Just needs some Amtrak integration on the NEC :)
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Outside of the dear USA chip and pin is very 2012 and the world has moved on to contactless cards and apple/Android pay. I use Android pay almost exclusively in Boston but I still don't feel comfortable leaving my house without a wallet like I did in London. Soon hopefully...
 
HelloBostonHi said:
Outside of the dear USA chip and pin is very 2012 and the world has moved on to contactless cards and apple/Android pay. I use Android pay almost exclusively in Boston but I still don't feel comfortable leaving my house without a wallet like I did in London. Soon hopefully...
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Id say chip and pin is very 2002. Contactless it very 2012.

The USA is a decade behind the developed world, like usual on these things.
 
jass said:
Id say chip and pin is very 2002. Contactless it very 2012.

The USA is a decade behind the developed world, like usual on these things.
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I remember listening to a podcast about how the US has a much more decentralized banking and credit card system than most countries and that is why coordinated changes here are so much harder than for other countries. Sheer size is part of it too - the next largest advanced economy (Japan) is less than half our population and the largest European country (Germany) is a quarter.
 
jass said:
Id say chip and pin is very 2002. Contactless it very 2012.

The USA is a decade behind the developed world, like usual on these things.
Click to expand...

Also unrelated to the main thread topic but the US never did chip and pin correctly, they seem to have forgotten the pin..? Credit cards (and debit) in the UK both have pins and must be entered for every transaction. In the USA I've never seen a credit card with a pin but they have a chip, and my debit card rarely seems to ask for my pin even though it has one.
 
HelloBostonHi said:
Also unrelated to the main thread topic but the US never did chip and pin correctly, they seem to have forgotten the pin..? Credit cards (and debit) in the UK both have pins and must be entered for every transaction. In the USA I've never seen a credit card with a pin but they have a chip, and my debit card rarely seems to ask for my pin even though it has one.
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I have pins for my chip cards (credit and debit), but I've never been prompted for pin overseas (they're for ATMs only, apparently. At least according to the rep from Chase I spoke with). Instead, it's always that awkward situation where the person at the store or restaurant has to scramble to find a pen for me to sign a receipt. Fine, but a little awkward in London or Dublin. It's an actual obstacle in off the beaten path places. Apple Pay is my default when traveling abroad now. It really sucks to not have better options with the actual cards - even the so-called "travel" cards.
 
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