MBTA Fare System (Charlie, AFC 2.0, Zone, Discounts)

Lrfox said:
We'll see about this afternoon, but the gates were locked open this morning - nobody had to scan to enter/leave the platform.
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They’re scanning this evening. Lots of Keolis (or MBTA) assisting, but it seems to be going smoothly. Albeit with lighter crowds.
 
How are the new gates supposed to work with Charlie Cards for the Fairmount Line?

Like, how is it supposed to work? But also, how will it actually work? I don't ride Fairmount much but I have never, not once, ever seen one of the Charlie Card validation machines actually work. Are people on the Fairmount Line about to effectively lose their free transfers because these machines don't work?
 
ritchiew said:
How are the new gates supposed to work with Charlie Cards for the Fairmount Line?

Like, how is it supposed to work? But also, how will it actually work? I don't ride Fairmount much but I have never, not once, ever seen one of the Charlie Card validation machines actually work. Are people on the Fairmount Line about to effectively lose their free transfers because these machines don't work?
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I'm not sure, but the gates have the tap pads for Charlie Cards as well as the QR scanner for the mTicket app/paper tickets. Presumably it might work like a bus transfer (where you're not charged if you tap within a certain amount of time after the initial tap)?

I wonder if conductors will become more lax about checking tickets on trains? They're not supposed to. The onboard checks are supposed to continue without change. But I can easily see a world in which they slack a bit now that everyone has to scan on/off the platform at South Station. And the easy workaround for anyone looking for a price break would be to buy a zone 1a ticket regardless of where they're coming from to scan to exit the platform after not having had a ticket check heading in.
 
Can Zone 1A stations with existing fare gates like Ruggles and Porter be configured so there is a single fare control area where CR and subway can be accessed? This would be particularly valuable on the Orange line where the commuter rail can act as an express option if the timing is right.
 
From /u/Ok-Stress3044 on Reddit

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I would appreciate a little more of the Eng Honesty(tm) applied to the AFC 2.0 project. We have way too many kit bash projects layered on top of the S&B AFC 1.0 infrastructure, and no clear vision for what the 2.0 endpoint is.
 
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cubbe8 said:
Are we serious? Like the GLX…
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The Fairmount Line has been operating this way since 2024. It's so that riders could use Charlie Cards to ride all the Zone 1A stops in a similar way to riding the subway lines. Platforms have fare readers so that you can tap your Charlie Card and it dispenses a single ride Zone 1A receipt. This made it so people didn't have to pay separately on MTicket or on board and keep all their fare payments on one card. All this was done in conjunction with frequency increases to make the line a more subway-like experience, and in anticipation of the fare gates at the core stations. Doing this also properly stores the tap data on the Charlie Card as a paid fare and opens up the transfer window so that when you go to tap (or already tapped) you get the free transfer, unlike with MTicket. Having to do it this way at South Station is because it's unknown what zone you'll be going to off just a normal tap, so validating the $2.40 is putting the data for a "Zone 1A commuter rail trip" onto your card for when you tap onto the platforms. This is the stopgap way of making the fare gates, which are made for the AFC 2.0 technology, sort of compatible with the old 2006 system with limited functionality.
RandomWalk said:
I would appreciate a little more of the Eng Honesty(tm) applied to the AFC 2.0 project. We have way too many kit bash projects layered on top of the S&B AFC 1.0 infrastructure, and no clear vision for what the 2.0 endpoint is.
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Is there an aspect you're specifically unsure about with the endgame? It seems pretty definitive but maybe I'm missing an important point: All modes will be payable via a Charlie Card that's essentially a modern tap debit card that can be loaded from an app account or physical fare machines whilst also being addable to virtual wallets, just like a bank card. Or people can just use their regular debit and credit cards in the same way. The infrastructure is already there just not completely activated for everything except the commuter rail, which is a WIP figuring out how to best go about that for our system. That could be tap points on platforms that you need to tap in and out to calculate distance like on BART, but that would involve rebuilding a lot of stations, concerns of how to power them in the respective cities and towns, and how to make them weather-resilient, so on and so forth. So that's all down the line.

If you've been to Montreal within the last 3 years, it seems the way the AFC 2.0 will work once operational (minus commuter rail) is the same as STM based on the info page and my experience using the new Montreal fare media system in 2024.
 
Lrfox said:
I wonder if conductors will become more lax about checking tickets on trains? They're not supposed to. The onboard checks are supposed to continue without change. But I can easily see a world in which they slack a bit now that everyone has to scan on/off the platform at South Station. And the easy workaround for anyone looking for a price break would be to buy a zone 1a ticket regardless of where they're coming from to scan to exit the platform after not having had a ticket check heading in.
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Anecdotal response, but on the North side the fare gates have been in place for a few years and conductors continue to check tickets at each stop inbound and outbound for boarding passengers. I was not looking forward to having to use the fare gates, but they really haven't been an issue. Scan, it opens, go on your way.
 
As of my commute yesterday 1/2/2026 the fare gates from platforms 8-13 were still covered and inactive.
 
Koopzilla24 said:
Is there an aspect you're specifically unsure about with the endgame? It seems pretty definitive but maybe I'm missing an important point: All modes will be payable via a Charlie Card that's essentially a modern tap debit card that can be loaded from an app account or physical fare machines whilst also being addable to virtual wallets, just like a bank card. Or people can just use their regular debit and credit cards in the same way. The infrastructure is already there just not completely activated for everything except the commuter rail, which is a WIP figuring out how to best go about that for our system. That could be tap points on platforms that you need to tap in and out to calculate distance like on BART, but that would involve rebuilding a lot of stations, concerns of how to power them in the respective cities and towns, and how to make them weather-resilient, so on and so forth. So that's all down the line.
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The original AFC 2.0 plans that I saw back in 2018/19 were for all new fare gates, all new fare vending machines, and brand new street side bus stop fare machines, along with new tap points and fare machines at all commuter rail stations (I've saw the plans for some of these back in 2019 and it's not nearly as disruptive as you make it sound, see Caltrain for a similar system). Those plans were all firmed up years ago and in the over $1 billion contract that we are paying Cubic for.

So far we've seen add on validators stuck to existing fare gates, new onboard tap targets, and a beta test of the new fare vending machines at select subway stations. So literally everything else in that $1 billion contract remains outstanding at this point.
 
Koopzilla24 said:
As of my commute yesterday 1/2/2026 the fare gates from platforms 8-13 were still covered and inactive.
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Came off an inbound CR this Sunday on the lower tracks (1-6) and it was a total mess. The cluster over by Track 1 (5 or so gates?) was offline and being actively worked on by one worker in a high-vis vest. The cluster closer to Track 4 had only 2 gates working (green check) with the rest broken (red x). Two T agents were trying to shepherd our entire train through the process of scanning the two working gates, and having a LOT of trouble with a man using a walker. Instead of flagging it as an exception and opening the gate for him, they were having him attempt to rescan his mTicket app over and over, his walker confusing the presence sensor, while the line of confused people piled up. I left through the one gate that was offline in an open configuration and the T employees were too distracted to notice.
 
HelloBostonHi said:
The original AFC 2.0 plans that I saw back in 2018/19 were for all new fare gates, all new fare vending machines, and brand new street side bus stop fare machines, along with new tap points and fare machines at all commuter rail stations (I've saw the plans for some of these back in 2019 and it's not nearly as disruptive as you make it sound, see Caltrain for a similar system). Those plans were all firmed up years ago and in the over $1 billion contract that we are paying Cubic for.

So far we've seen add on validators stuck to existing fare gates, new onboard tap targets, and a beta test of the new fare vending machines at select subway stations. So literally everything else in that $1 billion contract remains outstanding at this point.
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These will most likely be installed after the old charlie card is removed.
 
The info page says both Charlies will coexist “for the time being”. That is going to be awkward from a branding POV, because folks will elide the version number in conversation when it’s important.

Clarity would be served by stating what the end point is, what is going to change (hardware, software, services, etc.), what is staying the same, and (ideally) a timeline for all of this.
 
HelloBostonHi said:
The original AFC 2.0 plans that I saw back in 2018/19 were for all new fare gates, all new fare vending machines, and brand new street side bus stop fare machines, along with new tap points and fare machines at all commuter rail stations (I've saw the plans for some of these back in 2019 and it's not nearly as disruptive as you make it sound, see Caltrain for a similar system). Those plans were all firmed up years ago and in the over $1 billion contract that we are paying Cubic for.

So far we've seen add on validators stuck to existing fare gates, new onboard tap targets, and a beta test of the new fare vending machines at select subway stations. So literally everything else in that $1 billion contract remains outstanding at this point.
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That was an initial plan for the system with renderings the MBTA "cautioned that the design could change down the road." The proposed new fare gates are meant to be wider and have tap in and out capabilities, which I dont like, but back in 2018 they stated "During the transition between new and old fare gates, the MBTA plans to fit the existing gates with areas for tapping in order to accept the new system" which is the stage were in now. All they offered for the Commuter Rail are renderings and the statement "If the commuter rail system moves ahead with fare gates at some locations, the new system is expected to dovetail with that." So I imagine once they get Back Bay and Ruggles set that'll be the next project. California climate/weather is not New England. They can come up with renderings of what the potential tap points could look like but that doesnt mean when they go to plan the actually installation of them they won't run into design challenges that alter the efficiency of installation. Also, what to take into consideration with installation is what platforms are going to be reconstructed anyway such as Islington which is currently a very short inaccessible station that sees a lot of riders. The street side bus fare machines are the same deal of they have renders but not more plans beyond that. Much like with installing BlueBike stations, installing these at bus stops requires coordination with utilities, property abutters (some stops are on private business property), etc.

In terms of costs, the plan changed from ~$500mil capital + ~$200mil 10 year operations to ~$700mil capital + ~$200mil 10 year operations. According to the 2024 audit, the MBTA has only paid Cubic $217mil for what had been completed at that point. So we havent just thrown all the money at them for only 1/3 of the project.
 
Koopzilla24 said:
California climate/weather is not New England. They can come up with renderings of what the potential tap points could look like but that doesnt mean when they go to plan the actually installation of them they won't run into design challenges that alter the efficiency of installation.
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NYC made it work for the SBS validation machines, and Toronto has Presto tap points at every (I think) GO station. There is nothing exceptional about New England weather than precludes their use.
 
MjolnirMan said:
Came off an inbound CR this Sunday on the lower tracks (1-6) and it was a total mess. The cluster over by Track 1 (5 or so gates?) was offline and being actively worked on by one worker in a high-vis vest. The cluster closer to Track 4 had only 2 gates working (green check) with the rest broken (red x). Two T agents were trying to shepherd our entire train through the process of scanning the two working gates, and having a LOT of trouble with a man using a walker. Instead of flagging it as an exception and opening the gate for him, they were having him attempt to rescan his mTicket app over and over, his walker confusing the presence sensor, while the line of confused people piled up. I left through the one gate that was offline in an open configuration and the T employees were too distracted to notice.
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Just got off an inbound rush-hour weekday train. Most fare gates were marked as active. A confused lady who didn’t speak English was in front of me trying to figure out how to exit, so I confidently, mTicket app already open, said "excuse me" and scanned the code. Unfortunately, this didn't work after several tries and instead the screen on the gate said "tap to exit." I tried requesting help from the one T employee attempting to help the entire train through the gate, but she couldn’t hear me or was distracted by everyone else having problems. I left through a handicap gate left in the open position.
 
MjolnirMan said:
Just got off an inbound rush-hour weekday train. Most fare gates were marked as active. A confused lady who didn’t speak English was in front of me trying to figure out how to exit, so I confidently, mTicket app already open, said "excuse me" and scanned the code. Unfortunately, this didn't work after several tries and instead the screen on the gate said "tap to exit." I tried requesting help from the one T employee attempting to help the entire train through the gate, but she couldn’t hear me or was distracted by everyone else having problems. I left through a handicap gate left in the open position.
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Exited an Acela at about 4:30 today at South Station, with eTix up on my phone ready. All gates on my platform were open.

There was a Commuter Rail boarding at the next berth as we exited, and given the cross traffic crush at the limited gates, it was nice to see them open.
 
MjolnirMan said:
Just got off an inbound rush-hour weekday train. Most fare gates were marked as active. A confused lady who didn’t speak English was in front of me trying to figure out how to exit, so I confidently, mTicket app already open, said "excuse me" and scanned the code. Unfortunately, this didn't work after several tries and instead the screen on the gate said "tap to exit." I tried requesting help from the one T employee attempting to help the entire train through the gate, but she couldn’t hear me or was distracted by everyone else having problems. I left through a handicap gate left in the open position.
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They were actively escorting people through the handicap gates this morning when I arrived. Though I think that was largely due to two trains arriving on the same platform around the same time and the crush of people just being way too large.

For some reason, the scanning of the mTicket QR codes doesn't seem to be supper efficient - I've had issues too. We'll try again this afternoon.

JeffDowntown said:
Exited an Acela at about 4:30 today at South Station, with eTix up on my phone ready. All gates on my platform were open.

There was a Commuter Rail boarding at the next berth as we exited, and given the cross traffic crush at the limited gates, it was nice to see them open.
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When I took the Northeast Regional on Tuesday, the Amtrak (I think) employee at the platform was opening the gate herself for anyone with Amtrak tickets. I'm not sure they gates are reading Amtrak codes yet or if Amtrak just isn't trying to enforce it.

Has anyone else been asked to scan their Amtrak tickets yet?
 
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