MBTA Red Line / Blue Line Connector

[WestMedford]

"With the permanent closure of Bowdoin station, many have called for the emergency head house west of Government Center to be converted to a regular-use head house.

MBTA senior project manager Shannon Greenwell said the MBTA has no plans to make the conversion.

According to Greenwell, the decision to close Bowdoin was based on both accessibility and ridership. Bowdoin is the only non-accessible station on the Blue line, and has the second lowest ridership with about 1,700 passengers as of early October."

This doesn't seem like a big lift - is it really such a cost blowout to open an existing staircase?

The same condition exists at Medford/Tufts station. The north platform contains an emergency ramp system leading up to street level. Given that there’s no fare control and it’s ADA compliant, I don’t understand why it’s not used as a second entrance. Would shave off a couple minutes to the platform, especially if you park further north on Boston Ave or walking from Winthrop Street.

 

[Brattle Loop]

Didn't the Government Center overhaul include plans to reopen that entrance, and then it got cut?

Yes

This doesn't seem like a big lift - is it really such a cost blowout to open an existing staircase?

My understanding is that they would have had to install elevators, which was presumably deemed excessive for a secondary entrance.

 

[WestMedford]

Yes



My understanding is that they would have had to install elevators, which was presumably deemed excessive for a secondary entrance.

And they already have redundant elevators at the main entrance.

So the ramp system isn’t enough. ADA then must has a similar access clause that requires an elevator with the significant elevation from the street to platform / # of ramp turnbacks (I think it’s six turnbacks which is a lot). Makes sense.

 

[Brattle Loop]

And they already have redundant elevators at the main entrance.

So the ramp system isn’t enough. ADA then must has a similar access clause that requires an elevator with the significant elevation from the street to platform / # of ramp turnbacks (I think it’s six turnbacks which is a lot). Makes sense.

To be clear, my comment was about Government Center, and I think the elevator thing there was a state requirement, not necessarily federal ADA.

I don't know if similar reasons are why Medford/Tufts' emergency exit wasn't made a full headhouse. I know in one of Baker & Company's value engineering rounds they deleted the bridge in favor of crossing at track level to the ramps, and while they subsequently added the bridge back, it could well be they simply didn't see value in paying for a headhouse there even if there was no accessibility issue.

 

[ceo]

I was not saying modern Els have no negative effects on their surroundings. I was saying 1) their impacts are often blown out of proportions in public engagement, because people think of them like the old Els, which have additional issues that can be avoided; and 2) wherever feasible, they're a cost-effective way to bring quality transit that can be far cheaper than the alternatives.
[...]
Edit: Here are some examples of the kind of Els that I'm talking about.

I'm sorry, those are still huge, hideous and visually disruptive. No thanks.

 

[737900er]

I'm sorry, those are still huge, hideous and visually disruptive. No thanks.

In general I agree, I just wish there was more openness to considering them in corridors that are already visually disrupted with little chance of that condition improving.

 

[JeffDowntown]

In general I agree, I just wish there was more openness to considering them in corridors that are already visually disrupted with little chance of that condition improving.

The problem is the kind of corridor where those ELs are not intrusive is the kind of corridor with a lousy walkshed -- like the center median of a major highway.

 

[Charlie_mta]

The problem is the kind of corridor where those ELs are not intrusive is the kind of corridor with a lousy walkshed -- like the center median of a major highway.

I hear you about the intrusiveness of elevated structures. But I'm thinking there are some wide multi-lane streets in the Boston area that could accommodate elevated rail without undue impacts on the immediate area.

 

[BosMaineiac]

I hear you about the intrusiveness of elevated structures. But I'm thinking there are some wide multi-lane streets in the Boston area that could accommodate elevated rail without undue impacts on the immediate area.

I’ve always thought route 1 north of Boston is a good candidate for an El (post Tobin replacement). It pretty much parallels the 111 and there’s a pretty large, underserved population past it in Revere (although the cemeteries to the west put a big dent in the catchment area)

 

[Delvin4519]

That's what it seems like. Based on a picture from zombie reddit:

View attachment 58647

Here's the link: mbta.com/lasttrip
And from that link:

I've been curious for a bit, if we actually did build Red-Blue, and wanted to guarantee every single last connections between last trains for the night downtown (a.k.a "East-West"), how would this process change if the Blue Line had a OSR with the Red? Kinda a shame that if the T is actually getting rid of guaranteed subway-subway connections for the last trains of the night, we won't be able to see how Red-Blue would interact with the T's "East-West" procedure of guaranteeing last connections for the night.

A single letter costs the T $2â3 million every year

Every night in Downtown Boston at about 12:45 a.m., a procedure, in theory, occurs to allow passengers to transfer between trains downtown a...

amateurplanner.blogspot.com

The process works like this (as quoted from the article), but it only works this way since Red-Blue has not been built yet.

Every night in Downtown Boston at about 12:45 a.m., a procedure, in theory, occurs to allow passengers to transfer between trains downtown and not miss the last train. (This dance is called "East-West"; the name probably goes back decades.) Here's how it should work (note that this is from an operations standpoint; passengers transfer as they normally would):

1. The final Green Line trains from Lechmere, Boston College, Cleveland Circle, Riverside and Heath Street arrive at Park Street.
2. The last southbound Orange Line train waits at State Street for the last inbound Blue Line train.
3. Once it arrives, the Blue Line train continues to Bowdoin, loops, and waits at Government Center. The Orange Line train proceeds south to Downtown Crossing.
4. The last Alewife Red Line train leaves Downtown Crossing when this Orange Line train arrives and runs to Park.
5. Passengers at Park transfer between Red and Green Line trains. Once this occurs, these trains are released, and a domino effect takes place.
6. When the Ashmont-bound Red Line train gets to Downtown Crossing, the Orange Line trains waiting there are released. (There's no guaranteed last connection for Braintree passengers.)
7. When the northbound Orange Line train gets to State, the Blue Line train there is released. There is a second meet (which is not necessary) between this train and the Lechmere Car at North Station.
8. As these trains propagate out through the system, 56 "w" trip buses (the schedule notation of "w" means that a given bus will wait for the last train, although a few schedules use other letters) wait for transfers before making their last trips outbound, completing the domino effect.

The rail portion of this ballet, again in theory, should take about 8 minutes. The last trains out of Park Street are scheduled out between 12:45 and 12:53 (the later times because four Green Line trains have to all leave in succession on a single track). The system can then be shut for the night, leaving a bit more than three hours for track maintenance before the first trains the next morning.

(Also the "East-West single letter costing the T millions" post is so old, it doesn't even show how GLX works with guaranteeing last connections to Union Square and Medford heading northbound)

 

[themissinglink]

It's crazy that we haven't seen/heard more about the Red/Blue connector project. The connector is so vital, but it's still unclear whether it's actually happening or not. I don't understand why we didn't try to line up funding from the Infrastructure Bill for Red/Blue. Seems like it should've been the top priority.

 

[Semass]

This whole thing is just exhausting. If they just had two guys start digging with spoons back when the settlement was inked it would be long done by now.

 

[Jeremi]

This whole thing is just exhausting. If they just had two guys start digging with spoons back when the settlement was inked it would be long done by now.

It’s never supposed to happen. The MBTA will not construct another linear foot of new rail while any of us are alive.

 

[as02143]

I'm still not very convinced about Red-Blue by itself, it seems to be mostly supported by people who think transit planning is a visually-satisfying network map. Red-Blue as part of a Blue to Kenmore seems like a worthwhile effort, but, that's not what people are pushing.

 

[themissinglink]

it seems to be mostly supported by people who think transit planning is a visually-satisfying network map.

That's not why people support Red/Blue. You're seriously downplaying how huge and vital Red/Blue would be for connectivity and crowding relief at the downtown transfer stations.

It's baffling to me when I see people downplaying the importance of Red/Blue. I want Red/Blue because there have been multiple times when I've had to go between Cambridge and East Boston and I've been SOL. I either had to walk from Charles/MGH to Bowdoin, or I had to use Green to transfer between Blue and Red. Countless other people have this same issue with the lack of a direct transfer between Red and Blue. People don't want it for a "visually-satisfying network map", they want it for better connectivity and improved transit options.

 

[Delvin4519]

That's not why people support Red/Blue. You're seriously downplaying how huge and vital Red/Blue would be for connectivity and crowding relief at the downtown transfer stations.

It's baffling to me when I see people downplaying the importance of Red/Blue. I want Red/Blue because there have been multiple times when I've had to go between Cambridge and East Boston and I've been SOL. I either had to walk from Charles/MGH to Bowdoin, or I had to use Green to transfer between Blue and Red. Countless other people have this same issue with the lack of a direct transfer between Red and Blue. People don't want it for a "visually-satisfying network map", they want it for better connectivity and improved transit options.

I'm still not very convinced about Red-Blue by itself, it seems to be mostly supported by people who think transit planning is a visually-satisfying network map. Red-Blue as part of a Blue to Kenmore seems like a worthwhile effort, but, that's not what people are pushing.

I've had to have myself reimagine Red-Blue and NSRL to be akin to the Metro Tunnel in Melbourne, the Cross River tunnel in Brisbane, or I guess, the Sydney Metro? (I have no idea why I needed to correlate with those projects).

Basically, it's to fix the broken downtown transfers that today cause congestion (whether with vehicle dwell times, infrastructure capacity limits, or passenger load) and/or currently make cross-CBD trips from one side of the CBD to the other basically impossible.

Have you tried travelling from OL northside to Allston Brighton? Get a bus to get to the OL, then get on the OL, change to Green but the E train is the first to show up, so you need to take a 2nd Green Line trolley to Kenmore, then finally at Kenmore, pick up another bus to some place that doesn't have a frequent north-south bus route. (because the T charges an extra fare if you take 4 buses, so travelling crosstown doesn't work)

That's a 5 seat ride to travel 5 - 7 miles, all within the BERy streetcar suburbs entirely, and it takes 2 hours but it's so wildly unpredictable with all that transfers you can never time a bus connection ever. And in the space from OL northside to Kenmore, it requires making 4 transfers in the space of 2.5-4 miles. Take a bus, change, ride OL for like 5-7 minutes, change trains, take GL for like 6-7 minutes, change trains, take another GL for 6-7 minutes, then change again to a final bus.

This is what Red-Blue would fix, but for Red-Blue Line trips, not OL-Northside-Kenmore bus trips. (There's so little interest in fixing OL Northside <---> Kenmore bus trips , not even the T7 in BNRD will have OSR with the B/C/D, just 1 stop away past Govy on Green or Blue to go to meet the T7)

 

[F-Line to Dudley]

I'm still not very convinced about Red-Blue by itself, it seems to be mostly supported by people who think transit planning is a visually-satisfying network map. Red-Blue as part of a Blue to Kenmore seems like a worthwhile effort, but, that's not what people are pushing.

It's worth a projected +6500 daily ridership increase on the Blue Line for fixing the broken connections between East Boston/Revere and Cambridge/Downtown-south, +2800 daily all-new transit riders who aren't taking any transit right now because the connections to Red-aligned destinations are so broken, and 5,800 daily transfers at Charles MGH that reduces the overcrowding on Downtown Crossing and Park Street transfers.

But sure...it's nothing but somebody's spider map feng sui, not a service that lots of people will actually use.

 

[Equilibria]

I'm still not very convinced about Red-Blue by itself, it seems to be mostly supported by people who think transit planning is a visually-satisfying network map. Red-Blue as part of a Blue to Kenmore seems like a worthwhile effort, but, that's not what people are pushing.

I'm not sure if you're referring to the people supporting it in the wider world or here on aB, but on this site it has only been supported for its operational benefits.

 

[bigpicture7]

A dream that is very much all about operational and function excellence, not how pretty the map looks:
Harvard and Kendall Squares are substantial airport end-destinations, both as major employment centers and for transient students. The situation most certainly deserves the full solution of: speedy automated people-mover at the airport connecting to Blue Line which connects directly to Red Line. That's functional excellence.

The irony is that the falsely pretty-looking spider map for sake of pretty-looking spider map is what actually we already have: the airport Silver Line-to-Red Line being depicted as legit transit on the map.

(And this is just one use case. The East Boston/points North -to- employment center link is super important too.)

 

[Equilibria]

Not to mention that RBX will actually make MBTA maps less pretty, since they will require a serpentine with two bends for the Blue Line to keep anything like the current configuration of the other lines. The fact that this will be required for an extension that is perfectly-straight tells you everything you need to know about subway mapmaking post-Beck .