MBTA Red Line / Blue Line Connector

cubbe8 said:
According to this article from boston.com, it seems like the project is moving forward however it states that the environmental review should be finished by early 2025 which means the project is about 2 years behind schedule.
www.boston.com

Here’s where the MBTA’s Red-Blue Connector stands

Touted by transit advocates, the Red-Blue Connector has idled for decades. Now, new funding aims to inch the long-awaited project forward.
www.boston.com
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If it takes two years to do an environmental study on this things have gotten way out of control. It’s a thousand feet of cut and cover subway tunnel in a city.
 
TallIsGood said:
If it takes two years to do an environmental study on this things have gotten way out of control. It’s a thousand feet of cut and cover subway tunnel in a city.
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It's not really supposed to ever get built. The goal is to continue studying it and doing preliminary design work over and over again to keep advocates sated. The project will become "shovel-ready" and will sit on the shelf for a few years. Then, when funding becomes available, the EIS and design documents will be considered out-of-date and will need to be started again.
 
Early 2025 is not two years away. It is barely over one year away in business terms.

The T's project page anticipates their MEPA filing to establish the project in early Oct, 2023. Let's see if that happens and take it from there.

TallIsGood said:
If it takes two years to do an environmental study on this things have gotten way out of control. It’s a thousand feet of cut and cover subway tunnel in a city.
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No, that is not how it works. They need to advance the actual engineering design in order to do these environmental filings. They are not spending a year simply on environmental paperwork.
 
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TallIsGood said:
If it takes two years to do an environmental study on this things have gotten way out of control. It’s a thousand feet of cut and cover subway tunnel in a city.
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And yet it does. Shit is indeed out of control. Seemingly nobody in state or national government has any interest in cutting thru the fact that literally doing anything in any division of any executive branch takes an absurd amount of time. This why people lose faith in the government.
 
The EGE said:
Notice of Project Change released today. Nothing surprising, basically just a summary of the design changes made since the original environmental documentation.

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I'm still not sure I totally agree that closing Bowdoin is best, especially with Bowdoin Yard right there, but at least they ditched that stupid proposal to bring in a TBM for this project, which was a blatant attempt to increase cost.
 
TheRatmeister said:
I'm still not sure I totally agree that closing Bowdoin is best, especially with Bowdoin Yard right there, but at least they ditched that stupid proposal to bring in a TBM for this project, which was a blatant attempt to increase cost.
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Bowdoin basically has to get nuked to eliminate the atrocious speed restriction on the loop, though.
 
I understand the reasons for ditching the existing Bowdoin (tight curve, limits train size, limits train speed, ADA problems, etc). But what is reason for not building a new station, probably under Cambridge Street, centered around Staniford? I can see that that was considered, but I can't find why it was rejected.

Also, even if a new Bowdoin Station isn't in the current plans, are they keeping that available as a later infill?
 
It was considered in the 2010 DEIR, but unfortunately not recommended due to cost. I agree it would be valuable; unfortunately, there's no one powerful advocating for it.
 
FYI, these two figures were from the 2010 DEIR and quoted again in the 2021 Concept Design Report:
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I somehow always thought that elevation change was the reason why it was rejected, but looking at this again, it doesn't seem to be undoable. Nevertheless, the close proximity to Government Center is still a valid concern, in addition to cost.
 

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Also, this notice of project change explicitly noted the potential for BLX beyond Charles/MGH:
The DEIR also described station locations, anticipated access points and circulation, and conceptual station layout. The North Tail Track will be located approximately 400 feet from the proposed west end of the Charles/MGH Blue Line platform to beneath the Massachusetts Eye and Ear Infirmary (MEEI) parking lot. The South Tail Track will be located approximately 300 feet from the west end of the Charles/MGH Blue Line platform to beneath the eastern sidewalk of Charles Street on the south side of Charles Circle. A full crossover will be provided east of Charles/MGH Station Blue Line platform and a left-hand crossover will be provided east of Government Center Station. I encourage MassDOT, as project design advances, to consider comments received regarding the location and layout of the two proposed tail tracks. Notably, but not limited to, ensuring that design does not preclude future transit expansion of the Blue Line and confirming that location of tail tracks will not conflict with reasonably foreseeable work on the Longfellow Bridge or within the Charles River Reservation.
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(Thanks to this comment on Reddit for pointing this out.)

Edit: Here are the details of public meetings for those who want to voice out any comments:
The MBTA is voluntarily offering two public meetings on the Project and the NPC, at 6:00 PM on Monday, October 16, 2023 at the Paul S. Russell, MD Museum at MGH and 6:00 PM on Thursday, October 19, 2023 at the East Boston Branch of the Boston Public Library, to receive comments on the Project and for MEPA’s and the Federal Transit Administration’s (FTA’s) use in determining the scope for a state SDEIR and federal NEPA review document.
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If the Blue Line platform at Government Center were extended to Orange lengths would the emergency exit staircase (or potential second entrance) have to be moved, or would that end up in the middle of Cambridge Street? The platform gets quite narrow there.
 
A user on Reddit is claiming that the public meeting revealed that there will be no provision for future expansion of the blue line as part of the build. The claim is that the cut and cover tunnel is not able to be waterproofed to the necessity required for either expansion and a deep bore tunnel would be to cost prohibitive to complete.
 
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jbray said:
A user on Reddit is claiming that the public meeting revealed that there will be no provision for future expansion of the blue line as part of the build. The claim is that the cut and cover tunnel is not able to be waterproofed to the necessity required for either expansion and a deep bore tunnel would be to cost prohibitive to complete.
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This just shows the T and the state have zero interest in forward planning besides the one single project that they're working on, if we're lucky.

Not putting in provisions now will inevitably make things even harder and more costly to build in the future. One recent example is NYC's 7 extension and the 10th Ave station.

(Edit: At least I hope the current design won't completely preclude an extension. In the 2021 plan shown below, elevators and stairs in several alternatives are directly at the end of the tracks, potentially preventing any extension from being built.)
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