MGH Ragon Building | 55 Fruit Street | West End

[Equilibria]

I thought that project was dead, dead and dead or at least in the attic with a bunch of other mothballed projects. The last I see for Blue-Red is a possible pedestrian tunnel between State and Downtown Crossing stations. Granted I haven't been following that thread.

Then you haven't been following MassDOT's planning efforts for the last 2 years. It was dusted off for Amazon and appears in Focus40 ALONGSIDE a superstation at DTX/State.

 

[navigator4]

Mass General could afford to build the Red Line-Blue line connector without sweating as mitigation for its many building projects (past, now and future). Think big people!

 

[odurandina]

^^absolutely true....

 

[stick n move]

This whole building boom is great, hopefully the next boom is a transit boom to catch everything up while also leaving room to fill out. We have to forget about the big dig, it worked out good in the long run anyways, and start making bold moves with transit. It HAS to happen, the only question is when. If not the city will be a mess for the forseeable future. Boston loves to seem so forward thinking, well lets start forward thinking about transit before commuting is a complete disaster.

We may have to make some tough, expensive choices now, but costs only go up as time goes by and it would be for the greater benefit of Boston/metro Bostons future. This also HAS to involve towns along the commuter rail building transit oriented housing like Quincy and Framingham are. Boston wont be able to do it all on its own, the state needs a more comprehensivve approach. This will allow cheaper housing than within city limits as well which is key towards retaining the middle class work force.

Acela was also approved for those Aveila liberty leaning “higher speed” rail trainsets which can go 160 and supposedly up to 220 and are going to make the Bos-Wash metro area more accessible...but the NSRL will always be a missing piece until finished. I wish when biden signed off of the new trains we got some gov money for NSRL, but who knows what the future holds. Either way these trainsets are a positive.

 

[estyle]

Re: Mass. General Hospital says it plans large addition

Also, hospitals have very strict understanding of floor plan. So you might need clusters of six patient rooms for staffing and every eight clusters you need x amount of support space and so on. It's a functional model that lends itself to large floor plates rather than tall buildings.

No, the hospital doesn’t want to go to tall. That’s for a number of reasons, most of which were already articulated by stefal. But most importantly, hospital construction is even more tightly regulated than “normal” construction and you can’t just say you’re going to add x number of beds - there’s multiple regulatory agencies involved in deciding whether or not that’s going to be allowed to take place and more than likely that there isn’t going to be justification (in the eyes of said agencies) for more patient beds than is currently proposed. I’m sure people on this forum could argue all night about the pros and cons of regulation, but one of them is showing a “Determination of Need” and the basic reason as far as i understand it is that unfilled beds actually lead to price inflation, since the facility needs to make up the loss.

Moreover, it’s very unclear where healthcare is going right now and despite what you might think about titans like Partners, they need to be very cautious about next moves: the nature of care, care delivery and reimbursement/payment structures are without question going to change significantly over the next 20 years, and yet, especially given uncertainty as far as regulation and payment goes, nobody can really say what the landscape will be.

Finally, as the Globe reports, this, as is, is already the largest hospital expansion project ever proposed in the state, ever (I guess despite the height it’s still bigger than Ellison/Blake in the 90s, not exactly sure if we are talking about net increase in number of beds or number of square feet). Either way, healthcare construction doesn’t work like free market construction (or, if you like, what goes for it in this state), and building on spec or gambling on distant-future-needs is not a thing.

 

[tangent]

Then you haven't been following MassDOT's planning efforts for the last 2 years. It was dusted off for Amazon and appears in Focus40 ALONGSIDE a superstation at DTX/State.

You are reading the same thing I am reading... the pedestrian connection is under "We’re Planning", a Downtown Superstation and the Red Blue Connection and Extension to Lynn among other items are "We’re Imagining (Big Ideas)"

"A pedestrian connection between State and Downtown Crossing stations offers the potential to connect the Red and Blue Lines much sooner and at significantly lower cost than the “Big Idea” of a Red–Blue rail connection."

If Red Blue Connection is listed along with extension of the Blue Line to Lynn in the imagination section then I don't see it happening by 2030 let alone in time to be considered in MGH planning.

 

[stick n move]

Massgeneral.org

 

[Arenacale]

Re: Mass. General Hospital says it plans large addition

Also, hospitals have very strict understanding of floor plan. So you might need clusters of six patient rooms for staffing and every eight clusters you need x amount of support space and so on. It's a functional model that lends itself to large floor plates rather than tall buildings.

For anyone who's interested, the VA has design guides for various healthcare services available publicly at https://www.cfm.va.gov/til/dGuide.asp. Lots of information if your curious about how much patient care drives design in hospitals.

 

[vanshnookenraggen]

Massgeneral.org

These architects are getting lazier and lazier. Just paint the roof green and call it a day.

 

[FK4]

Massgeneral.org

This shows how enormous these buildings actually are - Ellison doesn't even look that much bigger.


For historical context,

... now it's a four lane road with median and parking lanes.

 

[FK4]

Massgeneral.org

This shows how enormous these buildings actually are - these are massive.


For historical context, notice how Blossom St used to be a tiny way, the width of an alley, barely visible... now it's a four lane road with median and parking lanes.

 

[JumboBuc]

This shows how enormous these buildings actually are - Ellison doesn't even look that much bigger.

Yeah, I was struck by how small the Wang building looks in that render next to these two.

I also knew that these buildings would take the place of the Parkman Street garage, but didn't realize that the Fruit Street garage would be going too.

 

[FK4]

Yeah, I was struck by how small the Wang building looks in that render next to these two.

I also knew that these buildings would take the place of the Parkman Street garage, but didn't realize that the Fruit Street garage would be going too.

I actually edited my quote out, I guess while you typed this reply - I realized after posting that I think Ellison is not shown correctly. Now, looking again, it might be, but it's a weird perspective. I feel like the White Building is way too tiny compared to Wang, too. Either way, these buildings are big.

 

[tangent]

Massgeneral.org

Back when they built the White and Wang buildings it was a seriously tragic decades old mistake of architectural/landscaping design to encroach so much on the courtyard in front of the historic Bulfinch building. I think the new proposal is fine, but it does nothing to remedy that mistake.

It would be really good to also eventually replace Wang and White, preferably with a new building where they show that new grassy area being created to replace the parking garage. That new grassy common area will likely be too small and too shadowed to be very useful or enjoyable by patients visitors, doctors, nurses and staff as an outdoor space. But a restored green in front of Bulfinch would really provide that useful outdoor space with that historic and beautiful building as a backdrop.

With Wang and White replaced you create an opportunity to really have that Bulfinch and the green in front of it be the center of the MGH campus again. Creating that great Boston architecture of the classic buildings juxtaposed with the glassy or modern new.

 

[FK4]

Back when they built the White and Wang buildings it was a seriously tragic decades old mistake of architectural/landscaping design to encroach so much on the courtyard in front of the historic Bulfinch building. I think the new proposal is fine, but it does nothing to remedy that mistake.

It would be really good to also eventually replace Wang and White, preferably with a new building where they show that new grassy area being created to replace the parking garage. That new grassy common area will likely be too small and too shadowed to be very useful or enjoyable by patients visitors, doctors, nurses and staff as an outdoor space. But a restored green in front of Bulfinch would really provide that useful outdoor space with that historic and beautiful building as a backdrop.

With Wang and White replaced you create an opportunity to really have that Bulfinch and the green in front of it be the center of the MGH campus again. Creating that great Boston architecture of the classic buildings juxtaposed with the glassy or modern new.

The Wang Building and West End demo between Fruit and Cambridge Streets was what really wrecked the lawn. I've seen photos taken from Cambridge Street looking down what used to the several narrow side streets toward Bullfinch, and you can see the old green surrounded by a wrought iron fence, with the building behind it. Majestic and secluded, but in a good way. Wang blocks this view, and when they built Wang and Thier, they excavated the area under the green (the entire green now sits atop basement), so it inevitably has that look of a phony greenspace atop a tunnel. The landscaping also is banal. But if they replace Wang with a more slender structure, it would do wonders for the visual presentation of Bullfinch. The older pre-Wang building shown below was far more congruent with Bullfinch, I don't have an image showing the green but you can see how it was less bulky and domineering even from here.

On another note, the other day I noticed how similar 784 Mem Drive is to the White Building and looked it up - same architect, and interesting heritage of the firm.

 

[odurandina]

Globe; $50m gift to Mass. General will support several projects

https://www.bostonglobe.com/busines...al-projects/xLvbRXfpjXFAgT5gRUcaXN/story.html

Massachusetts General Hospital has received one of its largest gifts ever — $50 million from philanthropists James S. and Carol J. Herscot..... The money will fund a variety of capital projects and initiatives, and continue support for the Herscot Center for Children and Adults with Tuberous Sclerosis Complex.... In honor of the gift, Mass. General will name the building that houses the center, at 175 Cambridge St., the Carol and James Herscot Building.....

Some other notable gifts to MGH in recent years: $100 million from tech magnate Phillip T. Ragon and his wife, Susan, in 2009 to create a joint institute with other research powerhouses, including MIT and Harvard, to accelerate the quest to find an AIDS vaccine; and $35 million in 2007 for the hospital’s burn unit and emergency department from media mogul Sumner Redstone.
Contd

 

[sm89]

"for Children and Adults" - why is that necessary in the name?

 

[odurandina]

Marketing scheme.... people get their MBA's to learn how to include the word 'children' for every corporate hospital expansion.

They need to commit somewhere in the range of $60~80M toward the Red/Blue Line connector.

 

[JumboBuc]

"for Children and Adults" - why is that necessary in the name?

Just a guess but:

I know that treatment for lots of chronic conditions -- especially genetic conditions -- frequently gets interrupted in the transition from pediatric care to adult care. There's often one set of pediatric specialists who deal with the unique challenges children face when a condition first presents and then there's a whole different set of adult specialists who deal with the condition as it progresses. This creates a discontinuity in care as patients transition in life, especially as these two sets of specialists are often associated with different institutions.

So if you're born with, say, sickle cell disease or cystic fibrosis, you might have a really good relationship with your hematologist or pulmonologist at Children's. But then when you hit your 20s it can be weird to keep going back to the pediatric specialists at Children's but also difficult to find a whole new team at an adult hospital and give up on the established relationships you've formed over the last two decades. So for chronic life-long conditions, there's value in being treated by a team that welcomes both children and adults, as this avoids the unfortunate transition. It sounds like Tuberous Sclerosis Complex fits this description, so hence the name.

 

[CSTH]

...and / or theyre really committed to a CATS acronym?