Midtown Hotel Redevelopment | 220 Huntington Avenue | Back Bay

beck4537 said:
How does that work with the bars/restaurants facing the CSC on mass ave? Also, doesn't one Dalton also have a Japanese restaurant with a bar? Same thing goes for the restaurants at the Pru center facing the plaza.
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Not sure exactly how each location works. One Dalton had to put their bar and restaurants upstairs, not visible AT ALL from the ground level. Other restaurants on Huntington have in the past been barred from getting liquor licenses (and failed), or had to hide their bottles from street view. When the old Brasserie Jo had outdoor seating they could not bring wine bottle out to the sidewalk tables, only glasses. I don't think The Westland is on CSC property. Mumbai Spice may be the only restaurant facing the church with a liquor license.
 
JeffDowntown said:
Other restaurants on Huntington have in the past been barred from getting liquor licenses (and failed), or had to hide their bottles from street view. When the old Brasserie Jo had outdoor seating they could not bring wine bottle out to the sidewalk tables, only glasses.
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Is there any link you can share discussing this? Seems insane to me that a business a block up and across the street would need to comply with any of the CSC regulations concerning alcohol. Where does this CSC "radius" end?
 
beck4537 said:
How does that work with the bars/restaurants facing the CSC on mass ave? Also, doesn't one Dalton also have a Japanese restaurant with a bar? Same thing goes for the restaurants at the Pru center facing the plaza.
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It works in the case of the Midtown because the CSC owns that property. The Mass Ave and other Huntington properties, not so much. As for Zuma, it's pretty well hidden, even from the upstairs lobby. I had to ask a few different people where it was when I dined there.
 
beck4537 said:
How does that work with the bars/restaurants facing the CSC on mass ave? Also, doesn't one Dalton also have a Japanese restaurant with a bar? Same thing goes for the restaurants at the Pru center facing the plaza.
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The Church does not own the Pru land so they can do as they please. i believe that the Church will not allow any visible signs promoting a bar, and none on the ground floors.
 
BosDevelop said:
Seems insane to me that a business a block up and across the street would need to comply with any of the CSC regulations concerning alcohol. Where does this CSC "radius" end?
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It is not a zoning issue, the Church owns the land and it is leased to whomever built the buildings there.
 
CSC doesn't allow bars / alcohol but would allow for hundreds of college students? That seems paradoxical.
 
JeffDowntown said:
Actually it is a poor location for true mixed use, because of the lease restrictions from the Christian Science Church. Hard to site a restaurant here, for example, because of the strict no-visibility requirements for any liquor licensed establishment.
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Well, not all mixed-use implies restaurants, liquor, etc.
 
BosDevelop said:
The Church owns the land where the Colonnade Hotel is located?
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I believe so. The Church bought up most of the Huntington frontage and Mass Ave frontage, as well as St. Germain and Clearway Streets many, many decades ago.

Colonnade Hotel was part of the overall Master Plan for the area, like the Symphony Towers, GreenHouse Apartments and Church Park.

In recent years, the Church has sold some of the parcels in the area (such as the land under One Dalton), but always with long-term use restriction covenants in agreement.
 
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JeffDowntown said:
In recent years, the Church has sold some of the parcels in the area (such as the land under One Dalton), but always with long-term use restriction covenants in agreement.
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I thought Carpenter & Co. entered into a longterm lease, rather than purchasing the actual land at 1 Dalton, which is why the church was able to impose the "no bars on ground-level" rule (rather than due to the "restrictions convenants" you allude to above).

Could easily be wrong here; just curious what the actual situation was/is.
 
The old dumpster file of pertinent articles seems to indicate that some of the parcels are ground leases but, for instance, the 30 Dalton and 1 Dalton parcels were sales. However, an old BBJ article explains that there were long term use restrictions incorporated into the deeds:

This particular article is about 30 Dalton, but I am sure it is likely similar for 1 Dalton. From the above link:
The Church Realty Trust, which administers property for the First Church of Christ Scientist, dictated in a deed conveying a parcel at 30 Dalton St. to developers that the land was subject to long-term use restrictions ...

In the recently-filed deed, an entity controlled by Pritzker agreed to the limitations while paying $21.9 million for the parcel. The Christian Science church took extra steps to make it clear the land comes with the restrictions, noting in the deed that because the Christian Science Plaza is next door, the church "desires to reduce confusion and conflict with the teachings of Christian Science in connection with the conveyance of the property"...

The prohibitions expire if the Christian Science church leaves its property adjacent to the land it's selling or in 90 years, whichever comes first.

Lawrence DiCara, a partner in the real estate practice at Boston law firm Nixon Peabody who isn't involved in the Christian Science Plaza project, said arrangements dictating how property may be used by future owners have a history far beyond the Christian Science Church.

"It's not common, but it does occur," he said...
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Just checked on this thread and I can't believe this dump of a motel is still rotting here. Get real.
 
bigpicture7 said:
The old dumpster file of pertinent articles seems to indicate that some of the parcels are ground leases but, for instance, the 30 Dalton and 1 Dalton parcels were sales. However, an old BBJ article explains that there were long term use restrictions incorporated into the deeds:

This particular article is about 30 Dalton, but I am sure it is likely similar for 1 Dalton. From the above link:
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Good thing no one tried to build a research lab, hospital, or medical facility on one of their parcels. Would run right up against the totally modern and normal belief in the healing power of prayer.
 
Justbuildit said:
Good thing no one tried to build a research lab, hospital, or medical facility on one of their parcels. Would run right up against the totally modern and normal belief in the healing power of prayer.
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I am pretty sure that the CSC would never have allowed such a development on their land.
 
TomOfBoston said:
I am pretty sure that the CSC would never have allowed such a development on their land.
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The point is not merely about their land, but also about how they orchestrated 90-year deed restrictions on land they sold to also restrict land uses post-sale
 
bigpicture7 said:
The point is not merely about their land, but also about how they orchestrated 90-year deed restrictions on land they sold to also restrict land uses post-sale
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Likely the buyer had to agree to that or no sale. Maybe before the 90 years is up some court will rule the deed restriction invalid.
 
I didn't realize the church is the reason why the ground level experience of One Dalton is so lousy. Very lame.
 
chrisbrat said:
Ah, come on. Every downtown core needs at least one (marginaly) clean-ish hookup spot with rooms for under $160/night.
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Most major world cities have scores of them - at under 100. It was wild to visit Tokyo in 2015 and see overnight stays in the 'net cafes' for 30 and well those love hotels at per-hour rates that would still be under 100 for a night.
 
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