Montreal-to-Boston Overnight "Hotel" Train Via Portland

Bolt is (partially?) owned by Greyhound, no?

Greyhound and Peter Pan split the east coast ownership. Greyhound owns the western U.S. But it's more a financial stake than an operating subsidiary, so it operates as a mostly independent entity with few direct ties to the mothership. Bolt's variable price ticketing is totally foreign to Greyhound's, they have their own fleet, and they have a cheaper labor structure than Greyhound's or Peter Pan's rigid union contracts to keep their costs down. The whole point of launching the service was to mimic Megabus's fare and operating structure and steal business away from the sketchy Chinatown carriers. Different space than what Greyhound serves, and very much favoring fast point-to-point vs. hub-and-spoke.

Fast point-to-point happens to be a pretty big unmet need for Boston where these guys can help. Given the dizzying rate at which Bolt and Mega have expanded their route networks in such a short span of time, it's probably only a matter of time before they start spreading across New England and start tying together these destinations. In Mega's case you only need to take one look at their route map to see where the next wave of route expansion is likely to go: right here. With that 4-hour Boston-Burlington route up I-89 being just 90 miles shy of giving us a real BOS-MTL discount bus that beats the pants off every Greyhound schedule on travel time.
 
Bolt is (partially?) owned by Greyhound, no?

Correct, Bolt in the Northeast is a joint operation of Peter Pan and Greyhound (as is Yo!). Greyhound, on their own has started to use the Bolt brand outside of the northeast for new services on the West coast, to compete with the expansion of Megabus. Megabus is owned by Coach USA which is a subsidiary of the U.K. firm Stagecoach. Coach USA has partnered with DATTCO of CT to jointly operate some of the Megabus service in New England, much the way Greyhound partners with Peter Pan,

And since 2007, Greyhound itself has been owned by U.K. based First Group, a major competitor of Stagecoach in the U.K.

http://www.greyhound.com/en/about/historicaltimeline.aspx
 
Being too lazy to check, I wonder if Greyhound Express operates between Boston and Montreal. Its the exact same thing as Bolt, minus the color. Same buses and all.
 
Being too lazy to check, I wonder if Greyhound Express operates between Boston and Montreal. Its the exact same thing as Bolt, minus the color. Same buses and all.

NYC, Hartford, Cleveland (Cleveland...really??? :confused:), Pittsburgh. That's all GH Express offers out of Boston right now.
 
G Bolt's variable price ticketing is totally foreign to Greyhound's, they have their own fleet, and they have a cheaper labor structure than Greyhound's or Peter Pan's rigid union contracts to keep their costs down. .

Although they wear Bolt uniforms, the drivers are regular Peter Pan and Greyhound drivers that are represented by ATU (Amalgamated Transit Union) locals. The buses are painted for Bolt, but they are maintained at the regular Greyhound and Peter Pan maintenance facilities. If you go past the Peter Pan garage in Chelsea or the Greyhound garage in South Boston, you will see the Bolt painted buses mixed in with everything else. The Bolt buses built by Prevost are owned by Greyhound and have the Greyhound Dallas legal tags on them. The Bolt buses built by MCI are owned by Peter Pan and have the Peter Pan Springfield legal ownership markings on them. Legally, they are not a corporate entity at all (not even a subsidiary), its just branding as far as the Mass DPU or the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration are concerned. One big way they keep Bolt costs down compared to regular Greyhound/Peter Pan service (but not in Boston) is to use curbside boardings without terminal facilities as much as possible.

Additional edited link:
Greyhound ATU local 1700 proudly mentions that they represent the Bolt drivers:
http://atu1700.org/our-history-0
 
Great. One discussion about Green Line maps and the art of plotting a short-turn has now gone off the cliff with "NO U!" dissertations on the mechanical switches on Chestnut Hill Ave. One thread about Montreal train service is now about Greyhound bus driver unions.


What's the next one you want to nag off-topic, winston, to show your utter contempt for the discussion? Should we pitch in by voting in a poll?
 
Greyhound still runs four round-trips a day on the old Vermont Transit route between Boston and Montreal via Manchester NH, White River Junction and Burlington VT


http://extranet.greyhound.com/Revsup/schedules/pdf/062.pdf

Oye. I left Mont at 815am and didn't reach S. Station until 5pm. That thing stopped in every nook and cranny. Next time I would have to consider Porter Airline. That route stopped like 7-8 times. (Also Concord / Montpelier, and Manchester Airport).
 
Great. One discussion about Green Line maps and the art of plotting a short-turn has now gone off the cliff with "NO U!" dissertations on the mechanical switches on Chestnut Hill Ave. One thread about Montreal train service is now about Greyhound bus driver unions.


What's the next one you want to nag off-topic, winston, to show your utter contempt for the discussion? Should we pitch in by voting in a poll?

Someone mentioned that there weren't many alternatives to driving to Montreal and I replied that Greyhound still operates service on the old Vermont Transit route. Go back through the thread and let me know who was the first person to mention Bolt Bus. If you feel the need to go off on tangents (like mentioning Bolt Bus at all) at least don't submit complete fabrications ("Bolt Bus is non-union") as fact.
 
Someone mentioned that there weren't many alternatives to driving to Montreal and I replied that Greyhound still operates service on the old Vermont Transit route. Go back through the thread and let me know who was the first person to mention Bolt Bus. If you feel the need to go off on tangents (like mentioning Bolt Bus at all) at least don't submit complete fabrications ("Bolt Bus is non-union") as fact.

Yep. We got a That Guy here. If you're a regular on RR.net you know who That Guy is. That Guys are everywhere. There could be a mundane thread about "What's That Smell On My Train This Morning?". And a number of posters positing theories about what that smell was on the train this morning. One poster observes that one time he was on this train that slammed the brakes after blowing a signal...and he smelled something. Maybe that meant something, maybe it didn't...he's just sayin'.

And That Guy shows up. Not because he has any interest whatsoever in the scintillating discussion about what that smell was on the train this morning...but because the poster who mentioned the brakes slammed after the train passed what he thought was a restricting signal. That Guy is so offended that anyone could mistake a restricted signal for [something else it really is, but who the hell cares] he proceeds to lecture the entire board about the rulebook. Accuse people of spreading misinformation. Goad other people into a good long catfight about this signaling rulebook vs. that signaling rulebook, and dig in and dig in with ever more obscure minutia about what this red light over that red light means because this asshole over here must be proved fucking wrong for all that is right and pure in the world.

And the rest of the posters just look at this with mouth agape. Or shuffle away quietly. They just want to know what that smell was on the train this morning. Maybe shoot the shit about ideas for making the train not smell like that. Or...maybe...smell like daisies instead! And they're confused because that's what the thread title still says, but all they see is That Guy...and occasionally other That Guys piling on...lecturing about what the little red lights by the track mean. When they don't know much less care. That Guy will insist his motives are purely altruistic. He's really, really interested, he swears. Like, several times over the course of the thread! It just troubles him ever so much that there's misinformation out there. And by golly, it's his sacred duty to correct it. But he won't, ever, try to relate his factoid tangent to the topic at-hand.

Which is...what was that smell on the train this morning. No. Somebody in a throwaway anecdote--"Blah blah blah...saw signal...brakes slammed...ooh, what's that smell? I dunno what it means."--got a completely fucking irrelevant detail about a signal wrong. Therefore...this thread is now about signals and the galling wrongness of what that other guy said in 4 words cherry picked from 1 post. And everyone else starts backing away slowly, because this discussion is useless now. That Guy doesn't have anything to say about the smell. That Guy doesn't appear to have read one single post about the smell. That Guy will disappear back do lurking or doodling in some obscure corner of the site the second it does get back on-topic. Or the thread will just wither and die or change the subject. Because this isn't the first time That Guy has shown up. And it sure won't be the last.



For all his protestations to the contrary, That Guy doesn't really give a shit what's being discussed. He just takes satisfaction in springing gotchas and setting semantic traps. The more he does it, the more That Guy's dripping contempt for discussion becomes plainly obvious. That Guy has no intention of being a participant in the community. That's why he's That Guy and not Joe Poster.


that-guy.jpg
 
Why don't you be the guy who says "I didn't know that, I stand corrected, thanks for the info!"
 
Why don't you be the guy who says "I didn't know that, I stand corrected, thanks for the info!"

Sure thing, pardner! And if you want to be the guy to share suggestions in a lively exchange of ideas with other human beings about urban planning needs and possible solutions, you feel right at home engaging the community on the topic at-hand for a change. You know...volunteer observations of your own. Not sit on a 35-year-old document from the Transportation Library until the perfect opportunity comes to hit someone you don't like upside the head with it.


Here's an excellent thread to start: http://www.archboston.org/community/showthread.php?t=4721. Go on...don't be bashful.
 
Sure thing, pardner! And if you want to be the guy to share suggestions in a lively exchange of ideas with other human beings about urban planning needs and possible solutions, you feel right at home engaging the community on the topic at-hand for a change. You know...volunteer observations of your own. Not sit on a 35-year-old document from the Transportation Library until the perfect opportunity comes to hit someone you don't like upside the head with it.


Here's an excellent thread to start: http://www.archboston.org/community/showthread.php?t=4721. Go on...don't be bashful.

I guess you must have missed message #13:
http://www.archboston.org/community/showpost.php?p=191325&postcount=13
where I'm the first to mention that intercity bus service still remains between Boston and Montreal, which seems relative to a discussion on train service from Boston to Montreal. (and look, I wasn't even replying to you)

And I even provided a link to the present PDF schedule for the through route, which shows that travel time for the four direct northbound trips ranges from 6 hour 55 minutes to 8 hours. I did not incorrectly tell people that it is faster to take a bus from Boston to Montreal via transfers in Albany, which takes between 9 hours and 20 minutes and 11 hours 50 minutes.
https://www.greyhound.com/farefinder/step2.aspx?SessionId=0a4c3122-495c-4c06-94de-417ef520452d

And trying to get back to the topic after a post with Bill Murray's photo that has nothing to do with Boston-Montreal transportation....the intercity bus industry is still more tightly regulated in Canada than in the U.S., which may contribute to it being more difficult for a carrier other than Greyhound to get border crossing slots on the Montreal-Burlington segment. Looking back at old Vermont Transit and Greyhound schedules, they did at one time operate 6-7 through trips a day vs. the present four trips. In the summer time, they also used to put in an extra non-stop trip that left Boston in the late morning, but it has been quite a few years since they offered that.
 
The Greyhound isn't so bad honestly. I took it earlier this year on long weekend trip. On the way there there were a lot more stops, but on the way back there was a much longer stop at customs (thanks America!)

Two things I noticed:

-Many people from Boston got off at Burlington.
-Many people got on at the Burlington Airport (probably because flying to Burlington is usually much cheaper than flying to Montreal).


I bet an express (or single stop in Burlington) bus would do well though.
 
The Greyhound isn't so bad honestly. I took it earlier this year on long weekend trip. On the way there there were a lot more stops, but on the way back there was a much longer stop at customs (thanks America!)

Two things I noticed:

-Many people from Boston got off at Burlington.
-Many people got on at the Burlington Airport (probably because flying to Burlington is usually much cheaper than flying to Montreal).


I bet an express (or single stop in Burlington) bus would do well though.

Has anyone ever tried Megabus's Burlington route? That keeps to a pretty impressive 4 hours by keeping its intermediate stops to the barest essentials. I don't know what is available for transfers out of Burlington to complete the last leg to Montreal, but if it's even a half-match on layover time that's still got potential to beat most or all of the one-tix BOS-MTL options. Albeit at cost of two-tix. But it's proof-of-concept that convenient travel times by bus are well within reach between the two cities.

At the dizzying rate Mega is expanding the only thing preventing a BOS-MTL run that meets or beats the 6-hour mark is giving them a couple years to infill the territorial gaps in its fledgling northeast network and add schedule reinforcements. They're just laying down their baseline now, so it only takes a small amount of reinforcing like a couple more Burlington runs on the schedule to give them flex for taking a gander at sending a couple of those expansion Burlington slots the extra 90 miles across the border.
 
Has anyone ever tried Megabus's Burlington route? That keeps to a pretty impressive 4 hours by keeping its intermediate stops to the barest essentials. I don't know what is available for transfers out of Burlington to complete the last leg to Montreal, but if it's even a half-match on layover time that's still got potential to beat most or all of the one-tix BOS-MTL options. Albeit at cost of two-tix. But it's proof-of-concept that convenient travel times by bus are well within reach between the two cities.

At the dizzying rate Mega is expanding the only thing preventing a BOS-MTL run that meets or beats the 6-hour mark is giving them a couple years to infill the territorial gaps in its fledgling northeast network and add schedule reinforcements. They're just laying down their baseline now, so it only takes a small amount of reinforcing like a couple more Burlington runs on the schedule to give them flex for taking a gander at sending a couple of those expansion Burlington slots the extra 90 miles across the border.

The Hound is the only carrier that has provincial operating rights from Quebec to operate Montreal-Burlington, there is no other connector. And in non-deregulated bus industry Quebec, it will be hard for another carrier to get competing route rights. The Megabus Boston-Burlington route is actually operated by DATTCO of Hartford using Megabus painted equipment. They also do the Burlington-NYC, Boston-Hartford, Providence-NYC, and some of the Boston-NYC trips as Megabus. Megabus LLC runs part of the Boston-NYC trips themselves and runs the Boston-Washington trips with equipment out of their Coach USA garage in New Jersey.

Looking at old schedules, it appears that the last summer that Greyhound (actually still their subsidiary Vermont Transit at the time) ran a non-stop trip from Boston to Montreal was 2005. The bus left Boston at 9:00 AM and got into Montreal at 3:15 PM, only stopping at customs. So it can be done in 6 hours, 15 minutes. The present overnight trip that Greyhound still runs is the fastest of the four existing trips, it leaves Boston at 11:50 PM and gets into Montreal at 6:45 AM. Not too bad considering it makes stops at Manchester Airport, White River Junction, Montpelier, Burlington downtown at 4:00 AM and Burlington Airport.
 
FWIW...Mega has an 11:30-3:30 to Burlington. Just misses the 3:05 Greyhound departure from Burlington to Montreal, with the next nearest Greyhound from Burlington @ 5:30. 2 hrs. 30 mins. to MTL on Greyhound. $15 on Mega BOS-BUR; $26 nonrefundable on Greyhound BUR-MTL. $75 on the web-only fare if you're doing Greyhound all the way BOS-MTL.


So...there's your price-buster today--two-seater half the price of one--if you're willing to lay over 2 hours in Burlington. It's too much to ask Mega to bump it up a half-hour to catch the Greyhound 3:05 departure, because Greyhound can just monkey right back with its schedules to play keep-away. But Mega adding more schedule slots to Burlington increases odds that it's going to hit a window where the dis-coordinated transfer is at 1 hour's layover give or take. Bigger odds the fuller that daily schedule gets. Then it is time-competitive with the league-average Boston directs, with the huge price advantage. That's enough motivation for Greyhound to improve its directs options with more expresses and/or better pricing.


While I am sure the intricacies of Quebec's unions are a fascinating sidebar for dragging this thread down another semantics wormhole for personal shits-and-giggles...positing one potential example of a service expansion does not by omission preclude every other one in the universe of plausible options. There are a lot of ways to do this.
 
FWIW...Mega has an 11:30-3:30 to Burlington. Just misses the 3:05 Greyhound departure from Burlington to Montreal, with the next nearest Greyhound from Burlington @ 5:30. 2 hrs. 30 mins. to MTL on Greyhound. $15 on Mega BOS-BUR; $26 nonrefundable on Greyhound BUR-MTL. $75 on the web-only fare if you're doing Greyhound all the way BOS-MTL.


So...there's your price-buster today--two-seater half the price of one--if you're willing to lay over 2 hours in Burlington. It's too much to ask Mega to bump it up a half-hour to catch the Greyhound 3:05 departure, because Greyhound can just monkey right back with its schedules to play keep-away. But Mega adding more schedule slots to Burlington increases odds that it's going to hit a window where the dis-coordinated transfer is at 1 hour's layover give or take. Bigger odds the fuller that daily schedule gets. Then it is time-competitive with the league-average Boston directs, with the huge price advantage. That's enough motivation for Greyhound to improve its directs options with more expresses and/or better pricing.


While I am sure the intricacies of Quebec's unions are a fascinating sidebar for dragging this thread down another semantics wormhole for personal shits-and-giggles...positing one potential example of a service expansion does not by omission preclude every other one in the universe of plausible options. There are a lot of ways to do this.

Quebec unions? Huh? The Quebec government (not unions) has much tighter regulatory control over intercity bus operators compared to what is found in the United States and that makes it difficult for a competitor to take on an established operator on the same route. In the U.S., if a bus company meets insurance and safety requirements, they are free to start a new competing service (that crosses state lines) against an established operator. Not so in Quebec, an established operator can protest attempts from a new operator to establish a new competing route.

I’m sure DATTCO would be very interested in extending their Megabus Boston-Burlington service to Montreal to compete directly against Greyhound, but the regulatory hurdle in Quebec would be substantial.
Greyhound on the other hand, would be free to start operating a direct Bolt Bus service between Boston and Montreal if they chose, as legally, a Bolt Bus is simply a Greyhound bus in a different paint scheme, and Greyhound is already the established operator between Burlington and Montreal as far as the Quebec government is concerned.

When I look up DATTCO/Megabus Burlington departures from Boston for next Friday, I see two departures, one at 6:30 AM and 3:30 PM

http://us.megabus.com/JourneyResult...inboundPcaCount=0&promotionCode=&withReturn=0


DATTCO’s 6:30 AM Boston departure to Burlington gets to Burlington UVM at 10:00 AM. Greyhound’s 7:00 AM Boston departure gets into Burlington UVM at 11:30 and continues to Montreal. Transfering from the DATTCO bus to complete the trip on the Greyhound adds 30 minutes to the total trip time when the wait in Burlington is factored in. Wasn’t reducing the travel time, not the cost, the original concern raised about existing Boston-Montreal service in this thread?
 
The greyhound cost, while more than I'd like it, is still much cheaper than renting a car (for <=2 people) or flying
 
Funny. The harder he insists he's not That Guy, the louder and more single-mindedly he acts the part of That Guy.

110 posts and counting...90% of them chompin' that same ol' bit: http://www.archboston.org/community/search.php?searchid=1483869


Have it your way, winston. The discussion will go on whether you want to participate in it or show your contempt for it.

I am participating in a discussion about transportation between Boston and Montreal by pointing out that bus industry regulation in Quebec makes it very difficult for there to be more than one bus company operating service from Vermont to Montreal. The legally protected lack of competition on that segment impacts the potential for schedule and price changes on the existing Boston-Montreal intercity bus route.
 

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