MY TOP 15 NEW ENGLAND CITIES

I'd agree with your assessment of Market Square. However, I think Post Office and Tommy’s Park in the Old Port, and Monument Square, as well as Church Street in Burlington, come close. But you’re right, Market Square wins by more than a slight margin—it’s a wicked cool spot. Sometimes I wonder if it’s too cute for words, though, like a stage set (a la Exchange Street). This gets back to your point about liking a little bit of grit. I don’t know.

Tommy's Park slipped my mind, but it's definitely up there. Market Square is almost too perfect, but I can't actually find a way to put into text why that's wrong. But I do see what you're saying.

I would differ in the last list (urban dynamism). I think you’d get the first two right (1) Boston/Cambridge, (2) Providence, then I’m not sure. I don’t know a ton about New Haven, so maybe you’re right. But what I’ve heard is that it’s nothing compared to what it was, or what it could be. I’ve never heard anything good about it from anyone other than urban enthusiasts who look through rose colored glasses.

Which is precisely what I do when I got there. New Haven is the birthplace of the hamburger (Louie's Lunch) and home to the best pizza in the country (Sally's... though some prefer Frank Pepe's). It's tough to knock a place that really knocks two American culinary classics out of the park. It's home to Yale, it's right on the coast and has a lot of good architecture (including a great train station). I've also only spent time in New Haven as a visitor and have never experienced the down sides (high crime, good deal of urban poor). That said, as an urban enthusiast, I have no doubt that I could find a great place in the core of the city to live and be happy. Especially when I can take the MNRR right into Grand Central any time I want.

I think you’re right Portsmouth’s proximity to Boston gives it an edge in some respects, but then again that factor would only matter to people who value a larger city for its amenities. In that case, I think you get more out of Portland at only another 45 minute distance from the big city. In my opinion, this probably puts Portland—especially with its educational institutions and cheaper housing—ahead of Portsmouth.

I didn't really take education into account. But you're right, it gives Portland a big advantage.

This is all very subjective, so I think the only real way to rank a place’s comparative importance is by population. The numbers speak for themselves. But that gets tricky because of density and square mileage making it an apples to oranges comparison sometimes. Then, the metro area becomes a good proxy for population. I think comparing metro areas is the best way to do it. And not combined metro areas, just metro cores. I could be wrong.

It's absolutely subjective. I composed my lists with very little other than my own experiences and preferences on my mind. Ranking using metros is probably the easiest way to do it.
 
Lrfox, the debate between Portsmouth and Newport when it comes down to tourism is such a tough call. They are really mirror images of each other due to similar populations, both are seaports, both have US Navy connections, and they both are extremely popular cities to visit and explore. I think downtown Newport is more quaint/charming and downtown Portsmouth is more commercial/urban in feel. I like them both equally but still have a problem sneaking either ahead of Burlington.

That's a pretty fair assessment and I'm tempted to re-do my ranking. But again, it's based simply on my opinion and I've spent only a limited time in Burlington. Burlington probably does better year-round than Newport and there's zero doubt in my mind that Burlington is the larger (fact) and more regionally important city
 
That's a pretty fair assessment and I'm tempted to re-do my ranking. But again, it's based simply on my opinion and I've spent only a limited time in Burlington. Burlington probably does better year-round than Newport and there's zero doubt in my mind that Burlington is the larger (fact) and more regionally important city

In my personal, subjective opinion, Portsmouth is ahead of Burlington. Both get sleepy in the winter, like Portland used to until 5-10 years ago and still does at some points today.
 
I just looked up and saw that Portland has ten downtown parking garages (soon to be 11 and then maybe 12) and that Manchester has just 3. Found that to be kind of odd for a city half it size to outnumber it that much. Then I see that Manchester has double the metered/city controlled street parking spaces.

This info means nothing but I wanna see Patrick break it down
 
I just looked up and saw that Portland has ten downtown parking garages (soon to be 11 and then maybe 12) and that Manchester has just 3. Found that to be kind of odd for a city half it size to outnumber it that much. Then I see that Manchester has double the metered/city controlled street parking spaces.

This info means nothing but I wanna see Patrick break it down

Haha I’ll do my best. In Manchester, there are no mandated parking minimums, so if you build a skyscraper and think everyone can walk to it, you can cover the whole site and not include one parking space because it’s up to your own assessment of demand. In Portland, the City mandates that there be a certain number of parking spots per unit or per square foot of space depending on the project (residential is unit based, retail/commercial is square footage based, I believe). So, the City determines that even if everyone could and would walk to surrounding areas, there still should be parking provided. This might be because of a greater level of neighborhood involvement in Portland than Manchester (people in the neighborhoods demanding parking be off street so as not to crown them out) but I don’t know for sure. What I do know is that many people think they are entitled to free and abundant public onstreet parking in Portland, and if you tell them otherwise you cause a stir. I’ve done it. The City made some steps in the right direction when it adopted a fee in lieu of parking ordinance, which allows a developer to pay $5k instead of creating one space. I’ve also seen waiver requests, too, but where the waiver standard can’t be met the fee in lieu exists. This is strange because presumably if, in the developer’s own assessment, a fee is better than a spot, then the space isn’t needed. If it’s not needed, it should be able to meet a waiver request. If it can’t, it calls into question the whole legitimacy of the parking requirement in the first place. So, the reason is probably twofold – a. Portland has a much more urbanized downtown, whereas Manchester is a bigger city but one with less going on during the daytime, and b. Portland forcefeeds parking minimums on all new developments.

PPH parking behind city hall
Intermed parking
Maine med parking
Parking beneath 100 Middle street
Public market garage
Monument square/free st. garage
Spring st. garage
Maine state pier garage
Ocean gateway garage
Maine med garage
Pearl St./Fore St. garage
Nickelodeon garage
Cumberland ave. garage
Jetport garage 1,
jetport garage 2
Fore street garage next to proposed new hotel

That’s at least sixteen parking garages or structured parking facilities, with at least two more planned in Bayside, one planned at the Forefront, one considered previously for the Amtrak pad on commercial street, and the split level structured parking beneath the Newbury St. lofts, not to mention the Bay House structured parking, and on and on.
 
Which city among Manchester, Portland and Burlington has the most street/homeless/drunks people in their downtown? I only ask this cause it's really embarrassing walking from Monument Square to the Eastland intersection side by side with tourists from the Cruise ship and trying to wonder what they're thinking about our city seeing this absolute foolish stretch of humanity for that many blocks. I don't recall seeing anything that bad in Manch and I have no idea about Burlington. A city our size should not have this much tomfoolery and it leaves a horrible impression.
 
Haha I’ll do my best. In Manchester, there are no mandated parking minimums, so if you build a skyscraper and think everyone can walk to it, you can cover the whole site and not include one parking space because it’s up to your own assessment of demand. In Portland, the City mandates that there be a certain number of parking spots per unit or per square foot of space depending on the project (residential is unit based, retail/commercial is square footage based, I believe). So, the City determines that even if everyone could and would walk to surrounding areas, there still should be parking provided. This might be because of a greater level of neighborhood involvement in Portland than Manchester (people in the neighborhoods demanding parking be off street so as not to crown them out) but I don’t know for sure. What I do know is that many people think they are entitled to free and abundant public onstreet parking in Portland, and if you tell them otherwise you cause a stir. I’ve done it. The City made some steps in the right direction when it adopted a fee in lieu of parking ordinance, which allows a developer to pay $5k instead of creating one space. I’ve also seen waiver requests, too, but where the waiver standard can’t be met the fee in lieu exists. This is strange because presumably if, in the developer’s own assessment, a fee is better than a spot, then the space isn’t needed. If it’s not needed, it should be able to meet a waiver request. If it can’t, it calls into question the whole legitimacy of the parking requirement in the first place. So, the reason is probably twofold – a. Portland has a much more urbanized downtown, whereas Manchester is a bigger city but one with less going on during the daytime, and b. Portland forcefeeds parking minimums on all new developments.

That's a good assessment, but I'm not sure where the idea that downtown Manchester has only three parking garages comes from. According to the Downtown Parking Map, maintained by the City of Manchester's parking department, there are three garages downtown with short-term parking, plus another four with permit parking. I know of at least four more that are private or dedicated to particular buildings. Unfortunately, there are four sizable surface parking lots at the periphery of downtown (including Arms Park along the river and the Hartnett Lot near NHIA and the main library, both of which should be better developed) with a handful of smaller ones scattered throughout the area. This doesn't include garages at the airport and elsewhere outside of downtown. I'd guess that the majority--or at least a very sizable portion--of downtown parking is where it should be: on the street. Between the absence of a minimum parking requirement, programs like the Green DASH (free downtown bus), and deliberately building projects like the Verizon arena and ballpark without parking, Manchester has a surprisingly progressive parking policy.

I'd also say that, while Portland has an unarguably more bustling urban core, I'm not sure that Manchester is far behind during business hours. It might be, but I'm not sure. At night and on the weekend, downtown Portland is much more packed and vibrant than downtown Manchester, but Manchester's downtown swells from 9-5. Now it needs to find a way to extend that vibrancy after-hours, but that's a different discussion. But it seems like the City's lack of minimum parking standards--and I remember reading this in regards to the Millyard apartments nearing completion now--allows for fewer parking spaces to work more: apartments (where some residents may drive to work during the day) can share parking spaces with daytime office-workers, and so on.

I'm also not sure what role this may play, but Manchester's downtown revival is relatively new compared to Portland's. Even though downtown Manchester has been going strong for at least the past decade, I think the idea of going downtown is still something of a novelty to many suburbanites and people living outside downtown. Not parking right out front is part of going downtown and part of the novelty, and I get the sense that while many businesses understand that better parking or better transit options are needed, a lot people are more willing to put up with some trouble finding parking as part of the experience. I'd like to see the City get out front of the issue by further improving public transit, extending hours for the Green DASH for instance, so to people know that when the visit (or live) downtown, they can park once (or not at all) and get around without their car, rather than building more garages and parking lots.

Which city among Manchester, Portland and Burlington has the most street/homeless/drunks people in their downtown? I only ask this cause it's really embarrassing walking from Monument Square to the Eastland intersection side by side with tourists from the Cruise ship and trying to wonder what they're thinking about our city seeing this absolute foolish stretch of humanity for that many blocks. I don't recall seeing anything that bad in Manch and I have no idea about Burlington. A city our size should not have this much tomfoolery and it leaves a horrible impression.

Personally, I definitely notice them more in Portland than in Manchester, and hardly at all in Burlington. I'm not sure that means there is more homelessness in Portland, though. In Manchester, Veterans Park serves as the major concentration of homeless people. It's a beautiful park and used for many festivals, but I've never been in it otherwise. I'm assuming the homelessness there dissuades visitors and development around it, but I also see plenty of non-homeless enjoying it. The same is true, on a smaller scale, of Victory Park outside the main library. In Portland, on the other hand, there are far fewer big parks right downtown, so it seems like the homeless there tend to concentrate in Monument Square, where they are inevitably right outside shops and restaurants, so it might just be that they are more visible there.
 
Which city among Manchester, Portland and Burlington has the most street/homeless/drunks people in their downtown? I only ask this cause it's really embarrassing walking from Monument Square to the Eastland intersection side by side with tourists from the Cruise ship and trying to wonder what they're thinking about our city seeing this absolute foolish stretch of humanity for that many blocks. I don't recall seeing anything that bad in Manch and I have no idea about Burlington. A city our size should not have this much tomfoolery and it leaves a horrible impression.

San Francisco is one of the greatest cities in the country by many peoples' estimation, and it has a per capita homeless population on par with Portland's. Just saying, I don't think it negatively impacts perception, as that's just a part of being urban in many ways.

Burlington has a higher poverty level than Portland (20% as compared to 14%), and Manchester has a lower poverty level. I don't recall seeing as many homeless in Burlington.
 
That's a good assessment, but I'm not sure where the idea that downtown Manchester has only three parking garages comes from. According to the Downtown Parking Map, maintained by the City of Manchester's parking department, there are three garages downtown with short-term parking, plus another four with permit parking. I know of at least four more that are private or dedicated to particular buildings. Unfortunately, there are four sizable surface parking lots at the periphery of downtown (including Arms Park along the river and the Hartnett Lot near NHIA and the main library, both of which should be better developed) with a handful of smaller ones scattered throughout the area. This doesn't include garages at the airport and elsewhere outside of downtown. I'd guess that the majority--or at least a very sizable portion--of downtown parking is where it should be: on the street. Between the absence of a minimum parking requirement, programs like the Green DASH (free downtown bus), and deliberately building projects like the Verizon arena and ballpark without parking, Manchester has a surprisingly progressive parking policy.

I'd also say that, while Portland has an unarguably more bustling urban core, I'm not sure that Manchester is far behind during business hours. It might be, but I'm not sure. At night and on the weekend, downtown Portland is much more packed and vibrant than downtown Manchester, but Manchester's downtown swells from 9-5. Now it needs to find a way to extend that vibrancy after-hours, but that's a different discussion. But it seems like the City's lack of minimum parking standards--and I remember reading this in regards to the Millyard apartments nearing completion now--allows for fewer parking spaces to work more: apartments (where some residents may drive to work during the day) can share parking spaces with daytime office-workers, and so on.

I'm also not sure what role this may play, but Manchester's downtown revival is relatively new compared to Portland's. Even though downtown Manchester has been going strong for at least the past decade, I think the idea of going downtown is still something of a novelty to many suburbanites and people living outside downtown. Not parking right out front is part of going downtown and part of the novelty, and I get the sense that while many businesses understand that better parking or better transit options are needed, a lot people are more willing to put up with some trouble finding parking as part of the experience. I'd like to see the City get out front of the issue by further improving public transit, extending hours for the Green DASH for instance, so to people know that when the visit (or live) downtown, they can park once (or not at all) and get around without their car, rather than building more garages and parking lots.



Personally, I definitely notice them more in Portland than in Manchester, and hardly at all in Burlington. I'm not sure that means there is more homelessness in Portland, though. In Manchester, Veterans Park serves as the major concentration of homeless people. It's a beautiful park and used for many festivals, but I've never been in it otherwise. I'm assuming the homelessness there dissuades visitors and development around it, but I also see plenty of non-homeless enjoying it. The same is true, on a smaller scale, of Victory Park outside the main library. In Portland, on the other hand, there are far fewer big parks right downtown, so it seems like the homeless there tend to concentrate in Monument Square, where they are inevitably right outside shops and restaurants, so it might just be that they are more visible there.

Not doubting Manchester is bustling during the day, just assuming, perhaps inaccurately, that Portland is moreso given the presence of tourists/shoppers in addition to office workers for at least half the year.
 
When we were talking best urban spaces in New England, a lot of good ones were mentioned. For some reason, however, I felt like I was missing one in the discussion. After spending last night in Providence, I remembered. DePasquale Square is easily one of the best:

depasqualesquare_zpsb99bdbb3.jpg
 
When we were talking best urban spaces in New England, a lot of good ones were mentioned. For some reason, however, I felt like I was missing one in the discussion. After spending last night in Providence, I remembered. DePasquale Square is easily one of the best:

depasqualesquare_zpsb99bdbb3.jpg

THREE thumbs up. That place looks fantastic. Why am I missing this and other places like it when we go to Providence? Where is this in relation to down city or Thayer St. (those are the two areas I've spent the most time, Thayer and surroundings on the hill being the more preferable in my opinion, with the Down City Arts Dist. being an exciting place of 'potential').
 
THREE thumbs up. That place looks fantastic. Why am I missing this and other places like it when we go to Providence? Where is this in relation to down city or Thayer St. (those are the two areas I've spent the most time, Thayer and surroundings on the hill being the more preferable in my opinion, with the Down City Arts Dist. being an exciting place of 'potential').

Obviously you have never been to Federal Hill. De Pasquale is off of Atwells Ave. It is greatly used during the May-October season. On weekends it offers Classical and Italian music. And there are 4-5 restaurants on the plaza.

On a side note. I have always thought of Newport as an International City. Its tourism draws not only from the U.S. but from Europe, South America and Asia. It has international draws with the mansions, the many international boating events and boat shows. This international draw is probably second to Boston in New England. I don't know if the tourism draw to Burlington, Portsmouth or Portland has as much of an international flavor other than Canadian. To me Burlington is a great college town and has a beautiful setting beside the lake. Nice restaurants and it is equal to Portsmouth. But where does Portsmouth's tourism come from? Nearby Boston, Mass or New Hampshire?

Portland is above Burlington and Portsmouth because it is part of the Maine mystique. You are not really Down East until you pass Portland. It was not by accident that People Express chose Portland as one of its initial starting airports. Its location on the water is really second to none in New England. Portland, New Bedford, Portsmouth and Newport involve their waterfronts more than any other New England cities. This includes Boston, Providence and New Haven. These cities have long been divorced from their waterfronts.

My last thought: isn't it amazing that L.L. Bean still has this magical draw to it and has allowed the restof Freeport to become involved to make it a destination point!
 
THREE thumbs up. That place looks fantastic. Why am I missing this and other places like it when we go to Providence? Where is this in relation to down city or Thayer St. (those are the two areas I've spent the most time, Thayer and surroundings on the hill being the more preferable in my opinion, with the Down City Arts Dist. being an exciting place of 'potential').

Probably because this one isn't downtown. It's on Federal Hill. Federal Hill is the "little Italy" of Providence, but it's also a great urban neighborhood. Outstanding restaurants and good nightlife too. Downcity and College Hill make up two of the three areas any visitor to PVD needs to see. Federal Hill is the other. DePasquale Square is the focal point of that neighborhood and feels distinctly European. But because it's not in the city center, it's easy to forget it exists if you don't live there or go to Federal Hill all the time (and I don't).

As Mark24 pointed out, one of the best aspects of the square is that you have a number of restaurants and bars opening onto it with live music, a fountain and good lighting making it an outstanding public space that's rarely ever empty.

In terms of feel, it's completely different from Tommy's Park or Market Square which are outstanding urban spaces and have that distinctly charming "old world" New England feel. This space doesn't really have that New England look or feel, but it's no less charming.
 
1. Pittsfield
2. Lawrence
3. Pawtucket
4. Springfield
5. Holyoke
6. Haverhill
7. New Bedford
8. Fall River
9. Fitchburg
10. Brockton
11. Lynn
12. Saugus
13. Chelsea


Elite world class cities. One even has a major sport's hall of fame, and another will even be the site of the New England FBI headquarters.

Believe you left out the gem that is Everett.
 
Obviously you have never been to Federal Hill. De Pasquale is off of Atwells Ave. It is greatly used during the May-October season. On weekends it offers Classical and Italian music. And there are 4-5 restaurants on the plaza.

On a side note. I have always thought of Newport as an International City. Its tourism draws not only from the U.S. but from Europe, South America and Asia. It has international draws with the mansions, the many international boating events and boat shows. This international draw is probably second to Boston in New England. I don't know if the tourism draw to Burlington, Portsmouth or Portland has as much of an international flavor other than Canadian. To me Burlington is a great college town and has a beautiful setting beside the lake. Nice restaurants and it is equal to Portsmouth. But where does Portsmouth's tourism come from? Nearby Boston, Mass or New Hampshire?

Portland is above Burlington and Portsmouth because it is part of the Maine mystique. You are not really Down East until you pass Portland. It was not by accident that People Express chose Portland as one of its initial starting airports. Its location on the water is really second to none in New England. Portland, New Bedford, Portsmouth and Newport involve their waterfronts more than any other New England cities. This includes Boston, Providence and New Haven. These cities have long been divorced from their waterfronts.

My last thought: isn't it amazing that L.L. Bean still has this magical draw to it and has allowed the restof Freeport to become involved to make it a destination point!

Thanks. We went looking for Federal Hill and headed south from the Thayer St./Brown area, wound around some local street that turned into an on ramp, and headed south for a few miles until we got offf in a really run down section. Must have missed the directions entirely, because we just got back on the highway and headed north back to Maine.

I think Portland and the others certainly are less international in appeal, but the one thing that made me hesitate to include Portland is the fact that it receives 60-75 or so major cruiseships each year. I mean, these things are so big they dominate every building in town. It's like John Hancock Center on its side or something, 600 feet long, 300 feet tall. But they bring mostly American tourists, I think. Yet, there have been days when there are literally hundreds of people from Asia wondering the streets with maps. That's the exception, though, probably twice a summer, but still interesting. On a regular sustained basis, I think Portland is most day trips from New England.

I don't know about the others, but I can say that having lived in Burlington the tourists there seem to be far fewer, and mostly related to Fall events, like leaf pepping or maple syrup. It doesn't seem to have the same proximity to the New England market for day trips, and so it sees less tourists.
 
Thanks. We went looking for Federal Hill and headed south from the Thayer St./Brown area, wound around some local street that turned into an on ramp, and headed south for a few miles until we got offf in a really run down section. Must have missed the directions entirely, because we just got back on the highway and headed north back to Maine.

The street you were probably on was Wickenden Street. This street is a local street, but it is a good place to visit. Many small restaurants, byob types, and many art studios. It is one of the main focal points for the weekly thursday night Art Studio trolley tours. Add lower Hope Street into it and you could spend the whole day there. Now that I-195 has been moved, the space left will be used to connect Wickenden Street with the smallish harbor area there. A separate location of restaurants and night clubs. Hopefully construction will compliment the 18th and 19th century buildings in the area and bring that part of the city to the water.

On a side note Stephen King has often come down to this area to play in some of the improvisational music nights at the local bars and clubs. A walk thru the area will also allow you to visit some of the haunts that Edgar Alan Poe visited. Providence was his second city for he long pursued a young lady here. This area is still mainly 18th and early to mid 19th century structures all the way to Brown University.
 
Hard to believe that it's been 8 years since I started this post. A lot has changed with the Top 15 during this period and I've decided to update my personal rankings as of 2018:

1. BOSTON, 2. PROVIDENCE, 3. HARTFORD, 4. WORCESTER, 5. NEW HAVEN, 6. SPRINGFIELD, 7. PORTLAND, 8. MANCHESTER, 9. LOWELL/LAWRENCE, 10. BRIDGEPORT, 11. STAMFORD, 12. NEW BEDFORD/FALL RIVER, 13. WATERBURY, 14. BURLINGTON, 15. BANGOR

Honorable mention: NEWPORT, PORTSMOUTH, PITTSFIELD, GLOUCESTER, LEWISTON, NASHUA, DANBURY, NEW LONDON
 
Barb, don't know about Stamford: is it nice? Haven't stopped in years, looks blah from the highway when pressing the accelerator to makeup for time lost (or about to be lost) in the New Haven- Bridgeport miasma.
 

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