New England Revolution Stadium | 173 Alford Street | Boston-Everett

This neighborhood is desolate and certainly no Fenway. If I was to bring the family, what would our dinner options be besides a $25 hotdog or dinner in a casino? In contrast, White Stadium will have a number of local restaurants that you can walk to and food trucks
 
Getting out of the revs game and walking onto the casino floor and just goin straight across to the Chinese restaurant 🔥 I love urbanism
 
Scott said:
This neighborhood is desolate and certainly no Fenway. If I was to bring the family, what would our dinner options be besides a $25 hotdog or dinner in a casino? In contrast, White Stadium will have a number of local restaurants that you can walk to and food trucks
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Those suburban girls soccer families walking around Franklin Park and surrounding streets on a Wednesday night deciding where to eat??????? Sorry, but you’re going to have to do a LOT of very locally and politically unpopular displacement (people would be pissed and rightfully so to have to move/close so Muffy and Heather’s parents feel like taking the fam on a weeknight to see the Legacy).

In the meantime, the Everett Waterfront is an open palette DEVELOPMENT. You’re speaking in the PRESENT tense. Skate to where the puck is going to be (Gretzky). The people skating to where the puck is NOW get left behind like 1970’s Southie beehive hairdos. Everett Waterfront has future development opportunity and more. If Franklin Park is going to become this suburban family magnet, you’re going to have to displace an awful lot. It’s NOT the win-win clear palette of Kraft privately cleaning up a desolate environmental disaster site along a river coast.

The obvious thing that jumps out at any observer regarding the two developments (White and Everett) is the fundamental difference in the proponents/opponents:

White - proponent is Government, opponent is constituent groups/tax hawks
Everett - proponent is private, opponent is neighboring city Government

Right now, White Stadium is getting rammed through WITHOUT any promised updates on cost. It will definitely get done (Everett development outlook is still unknown) because of government strong-arming. The Everett development is being handcuffed because of Government strong-arming.

It’s a very interesting and illustrative case study of Economics 101.
 
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The vision for Franklin Park and other large urban parks should be informed by places like Prospect Park. I am sorry you can't see that. I pointing out that the best dining option right now seems to be a casino that is expensive and not fun
 
Longfellow said:
Getting out of the revs game and walking onto the casino floor and just goin straight across to the Chinese restaurant 🔥 I love urbanism
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…..and that’s just the beginning of what could be opened up if the leaders allowed the potential on both sides of the Mystic River there (Charlestown/Somerville/Medford - Chelsea/Everett/Malden).
 
Scott said:
The vision for Franklin Park and other large urban parks should be informed by places like Prospect Park. I am sorry you can't see that. I pointing out that the best dining option right now seems to be a casino that is expensive and not fun
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Once again, you are using the word “now” regarding an open palette.

And Franklin Park is NOT an open palette. It will have to change character to attract the consumer the Legacy are targeting. That screams economic failure on every level - - the choice is stark - -either respect the present residents/ and environs and fail due to not attracting high end paid attendance with peripheral merch and entertainment spending or “change” that area to accommodate the target market of a professional female soccer franchise in order to survive.

But keep talking about “now” when there are hundreds of acres of open palette on both sides of that Mystic River - - (along with the civic benefit of private funding to pay for the environmental cleanup)

And, yes, Greater Boston has perfected the art of looking Gift Horses in the Mouth for many generations, so I wouldn’t be surprised i if this petty “now” thinking happens again.
 
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Scott said:
This neighborhood is desolate and certainly no Fenway. If I was to bring the family, what would our dinner options be besides a $25 hotdog or dinner in a casino? In contrast, White Stadium will have a number of local restaurants that you can walk to and food trucks
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There'll be a footbridge from the casino to assembly. Plenty of food options there.
 
Ruairi said:
There'll be a footbridge from the casino to assembly. Plenty of food options there.
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Yup, and also plenty of potential options on the casino/stadium riverside too. Both sides of that Mystic River could be primed to be activated with cafes, parks, etc.
 
Are there plans for that massive substation right by the new stadium to be covered/buried/relocated/removed?
 
I would argue that with White Stadium being used by the Legacy and BPS, those local establishments will get a lot of business with some turnover, but not entirely. The folks who are supporting women's sports today (at least in the current socio-economic-political climate) tend to want to shop at smaller, more local shops. That means the places that are there will probably see an influx of business. This also leverages on private entities wanting that influx of business and the city working to improve stereotypes of the area. Will it be as simple as a clean slate (ie Everett), no, but it will be where people already are. So you would be putting a horse in front of the cart instead dropping the cart without a horse (i know it is a stretched analogy, but humor me). The biggest challenge for White Stadium (beyond the current stereotypes) is the established neighborhoods surrounding the park that probably do not want more people in the area. This will be the same issue that Everett folks bring up (not that there are residential neighbors to complain) saying that it will bring too much traffic and will increase crime and all those other bad talking points that NIMBYs utilize.

Having a clean slate is always "simpler" from a planning perspective, but in today's building climate, new builds are not leaving a lot of room for smaller, local businesses. Since Encore Boston opened in 2019, what type of economic boom has it brought to that area? The shopping plaza just to the north was being built out back in 2001. Assembly Row started planning and ROW construction around 2010. The casino took advantage of the State's gambling laws and bought low cost land and hasn't brought any significant development (albeit, yet) to the area. When new development comes, sure it will be full of options, but as new construction has shown us it will be chains and larger corporations who can afford rent on these new builds, presuming people move there (and they will, because we need the housing). Adding the Revolution stadium will be a nice addition to the waterfront, but there is no guarantee that will bring any additional development (ie casino). One could argue that any development nearby the casino and a possible soccer specific stadium would only be loosely correlated rather than directly caused by those two projects. Items such as low land cost (possibly due to environmental cleanup) is a big driver in attracting some of these master planning developers like Davis Companies and so on. So the arguement of a clean slate is purely hypothetical until people actually start living in that area.

So technically, neither of the cases are "wrong" in the traditional definition of the word. It just comes down to what how each individual person is viewing it. White Stadium is making use of existing infrastructure to validate an improved (completely new, really) stadium for a sector of professional sport rising in popularity while providing for our city's schools within the boundaries of an amazing open space. The other arguement is building the new, flashy buildings that will need to manufacture space for living, gathering, working, etc. which has its own version of risk. What happens if the master planned developments don't happen for 10 years? Then there is limited new open space and nobody living there for those thriving new businesses to actually thrive. White Stadium is going where the people are and the Revolution stadium is trying to bring people to where they haven't really gone before.

There are obviously nuances to each arguement, but I still applaud the White Stadium project as well as the city's current stance on making the Kraft Group invest in the community (beyond the paltry $750,000) to get their shiny, new, money making venue.
 
CBCArch61 said:
I would argue that with White Stadium being used by the Legacy and BPS, those local establishments will get a lot of business with some turnover, but not entirely. The folks who are supporting women's sports today (at least in the current socio-economic-political climate) tend to want to shop at smaller, more local shops. That means the places that are there will probably see an influx of business. This also leverages on private entities wanting that influx of business and the city working to improve stereotypes of the area. Will it be as simple as a clean slate (ie Everett), no, but it will be where people already are. So you would be putting a horse in front of the cart instead dropping the cart without a horse (i know it is a stretched analogy, but humor me). The biggest challenge for White Stadium (beyond the current stereotypes) is the established neighborhoods surrounding the park that probably do not want more people in the area. This will be the same issue that Everett folks bring up (not that there are residential neighbors to complain) saying that it will bring too much traffic and will increase crime and all those other bad talking points that NIMBYs utilize.

Having a clean slate is always "simpler" from a planning perspective, but in today's building climate, new builds are not leaving a lot of room for smaller, local businesses. Since Encore Boston opened in 2019, what type of economic boom has it brought to that area? The shopping plaza just to the north was being built out back in 2001. Assembly Row started planning and ROW construction around 2010. The casino took advantage of the State's gambling laws and bought low cost land and hasn't brought any significant development (albeit, yet) to the area. When new development comes, sure it will be full of options, but as new construction has shown us it will be chains and larger corporations who can afford rent on these new builds, presuming people move there (and they will, because we need the housing). Adding the Revolution stadium will be a nice addition to the waterfront, but there is no guarantee that will bring any additional development (ie casino). One could argue that any development nearby the casino and a possible soccer specific stadium would only be loosely correlated rather than directly caused by those two projects. Items such as low land cost (possibly due to environmental cleanup) is a big driver in attracting some of these master planning developers like Davis Companies and so on. So the arguement of a clean slate is purely hypothetical until people actually start living in that area.

So technically, neither of the cases are "wrong" in the traditional definition of the word. It just comes down to what how each individual person is viewing it. White Stadium is making use of existing infrastructure to validate an improved (completely new, really) stadium for a sector of professional sport rising in popularity while providing for our city's schools within the boundaries of an amazing open space. The other arguement is building the new, flashy buildings that will need to manufacture space for living, gathering, working, etc. which has its own version of risk. What happens if the master planned developments don't happen for 10 years? Then there is limited new open space and nobody living there for those thriving new businesses to actually thrive. White Stadium is going where the people are and the Revolution stadium is trying to bring people to where they haven't really gone before.

There are obviously nuances to each arguement, but I still applaud the White Stadium project as well as the city's current stance on making the Kraft Group invest in the community (beyond the paltry $750,000) to get their shiny, new, money making venue.
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I appreciate your very thoughtful and in depth post on this. However, Kraft is offering much more than $750,000 to Boston - - this development is in Everett. “The community” is across the Mystic River.

In addition to the Brownfields environmental cleanup of that area along the Mystic, from what I’ve seen is Kraft also offering $15 million for a new community center/housing funds and 4 acres of parkland along the river to the City of Everett. Would I like to see a private interest like him offer more? Absolutely! I’m always in favor of pressuring private interests to pony up more for societal good.

But the billions of dollars (yes, billions) that could arise from turning both sides of the Mystic River into a dynamic, water based transportation and entertainment “riviera” is the Gift Horse that should not be looked in the mouth. In the real world, Great Boston is in competition with all other cities - - why forfeit business to them when there is such a potential sitting right under the community’s nose?
 
shmessy said:
I appreciate your very thoughtful and in depth post on this. However, Kraft is offering much more than $750,000 to Boston - - this development is in Everett. “The community” is across the Mystic River.

In addition to the Brownfields environmental cleanup of that area along the Mystic, from what I’ve seen is Kraft also offering $15 million for a new community center/housing funds and 4 acres of parkland along the river to the City of Everett. Would I like to see a private interest like him offer more? Absolutely! I’m always in favor of pressuring private interests to pony up more for societal good.

But the billions of dollars (yes, billions) that could arise from turning both sides of the Mystic River into a dynamic, water based transportation and entertainment “riviera” is the Gift Horse that should not be looked in the mouth. In the real world, Great Boston is in competition with all other cities - - why forfeit business to them when there is such a potential sitting right under the community’s nose?
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We already have had Assembly and Encore for a decade. If the "Riviera" were going to happen, it would already have happened.
 
Equilibria said:
We already have had Assembly and Encore for a decade. If the "Riviera" were going to happen, it would already have happened.
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The problem with all the sites along the river is they are all superfund sites. That is the big barrier to redevelopment. These are not clean waterfront development sites. Most commercial uses don't have big enough returns to pay for the environmental remediation. Only a few uses (like a casino and stadium) come close.

Unless you want a development scenario like Edgewater NJ, where the cleanup really wasn't done (mobbed up contractors). Now the toxic crap oozes into the lower levels of all the waterfront condos and hotels.
 
JeffDowntown said:
The problem with all the sites along the river is they are all superfund sites. That is the big barrier to redevelopment. These are not clean waterfront development sites. Most commercial uses don't have big enough returns to pay for the environmental remediation. Only a few uses (like a casino and stadium) come close.

Unless you want a development scenario like Edgewater NJ, where the cleanup really wasn't done (mobbed up contractors). Now the toxic crap oozes into the lower levels of all the waterfront condos and hotels.
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And Kraft could make the case that the cleanup of the site alone is an adequate public benefit given that he isn't asking for any public money.
 
It is some real spin to claim that Encore or Kraft are responsible for either site being viable when that credit goes to the MWRA ratepayers like you and I. Prior to that nothing waterfront got built because it fronted an open sewer. We fixed that not him. Tomorrow is the deadline for Kraft to make a deal with the city as mandated when the state bent over backwards and changed the law for him. I doubt we will see any movement just more hard line. IMHO, after all the taxpayers have done for him, upgrading Rt 1, building T stations, changing the law, if he still doesn't like how he has been treated he can take his stadium and his $35,000 World Cup seats to Hartford.

All the while taxpayers in Buffalo and DC are getting fleeced by other NFL owners for $1B each with no way of quantifying any possible benefit
 
Equilibria said:
And Kraft could make the case that the cleanup of the site alone is an adequate public benefit given that he isn't asking for any public money.
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Bingo. AND he’s still offering $15 million for Everett community center and housing plus the $750k to Boston across the river.

Look, if the NIMBY’s want to keep that potential off the table and let Mystic River be what it has been, then that is definitely the way things have almost always been done in Greater Boston.
 
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