New England Revolution Stadium | 173 Alford Street | Boston-Everett

[kdmc]

Good find @Wonk . I wonder if it's at all related to their strange proposal to ferry people to/from the casino instead of having them... walk across the street.

Per the globe "Plans also call for a dock at the stadium site for ferries going to and from the casino." Because walking across the street is too pedestrian? I suspect there would could easily be special ferry or water taxi service though.

 

[ritchiew]

Images show the facility entirely in Everett, leaving the existing structures along Alford/Broadway intact. That's an unlikely outcome but curious if it's intended to imply something about Boston's role in the project.

I was just wondering about exactly that. That's an electrical substation along Alford, and maybe that needs to stay, but I didn't think so.

In part I was wondering because if that substation needs to stay, I don't think there's any possible room for the stadium while keeping the smokestacks (for all the smokestack fans out there).

 

[stellarfun]

I was just wondering about exactly that. That's an electrical substation along Alford, and maybe that needs to stay, but I didn't think so.

In part I was wondering because if that substation needs to stay, I don't think there's any possible room for the stadium while keeping the smokestacks (for all the smokestack fans out there).

When Encore/Wynn purchased the 45 acres (the potential stadium site) from Constellation, the Eversource switching station along Alford St. was to remain. (There may be an easement providing for such.) The switching station facility seems to run northward along Alford St. all the way to where Encore is building its casino expansion / parking garage. Encore's expansion probably eliminated an option of moving the switching station to this site.

It seems unlikely that the Mystic Generating Station will close. AI has upset the applecart when it comes to demand for electricity. According to a very recent forecast by the Boston Consulting Group, 'widespread introduction and operation of AI will triple the data-center share of U.S. electricity consumption from 126 terawatt hours in 2022 to 390 terawatt hours by 2030. That’s the equivalent usage of 40 million U.S. homes'. (There are about 145 million 'homes' in the U.S.)

 

[Equilibria]

The “FOR DISCUSSION PURPOSES ONLY” disclaimers are telling. This is a placeholder and nothing more.

Yes, and there's nothing unusual about a stadium being a massing model in initial renders. It's pretty standard practice.

 

[stick n move]

The fact that many people even want the power plant buildings adaptively reused (myself included) just goes to show how much more thought went into random background infrastructure buildings back in the day than many houses or buildings that are built today. So many old warehouses are turned into prized retrofit developments where many times the old random warehouse is the best part about the whole building.

Can anyone imagine a warehouse built in the last 40 years ever being considered for an atlantic wharf or hearst building conversion in the future? No way. If were trying to pride ourself on being “green” we should be trying to reuse as many structures as possible. At the same time we should be building things that can also be reused later on down the line. I’m sure this is essentially a massing model but reusing the old buildings on a site like this should be damn near a prerequisite for developing sites like this imo. Hopefully thats a part of the picture when more representative drawings come out in the future.

 

[Wonk]

It seems unlikely that the Mystic Generating Station will close.

It's operating at a loss, and FERC's agreement to allow Constellation to charge rate payers to subsidize for that expires next month.

 

[AndrewOnTheMBTA]

Another reason why this doesn't seem serious is the specs of the design, including the preemptive arbitrary capacity of 25K. The Revolution had the 8th highest average home attendance in the MLS at over 21K per game, and that was in Foxboro, in a pretty mundane Gillette Stadium soccer configuration. The NYCFC proposed stadium for Willets Point also has a vague 25K capacity planned, and that is still being figured out, but also that team draws 19K per year in a great market and good location, yet in Yankee Stadium. Plus, I can imagine Kraft would love to have this as a prime exhibition location for Friendlys, and even a potential NCAAF bowl location.

I can't see how this stadium wouldn't benefit from being a 30K seat stadium and state of the art, like what Geodis Park turned out to be for Nashville.

 

[Hufer]

Nowadays Stadium infrastructure cannot survive as isolated islands or "white elephant monuments"- either those structures are meant to be designed for multi-purpose venues that can be used all year round, or have additional commercial, assembly, even residential (hotel) components incorporated to the main structure, so they can financially & logistically thrive. As far as this specific case, While the proposal seems exciting, the location next to that industrial site is quite discouraging TBH ...... but isn't the adjacent site's infrastructure use (petrochemical) to be removed in the future..?

 

[kingofsheeba]

What’s soccer?

What’s a care react? #blessyourheart

 

[BosDevelop]

and even a potential NCAAF bowl location.

I seriously doubt any major college football would be played at this stadium for numerous reasons. 25,000 capacity seems fine to me. 21,000 average attendance means half the Revolution games have less than that amount. Also, let's not forget that soccer around here is played in a few awful weather months so I am not sure you are getting 30,000 to any stadium for March/April games when it is 45 degrees with 20mph winds. It's really not the end of the world if a bunch of games sell out and the Revolution becomes a tougher ticket for the most desirable games.

 

[Stlin]

It seems unlikely that the Mystic Generating Station will close. AI has upset the applecart when it comes to demand for electricity. According to a very recent forecast by the Boston Consulting Group, 'widespread introduction and operation of AI will triple the data-center share of U.S. electricity consumption from 126 terawatt hours in 2022 to 390 terawatt hours by 2030. That’s the equivalent usage of 40 million U.S. homes'. (There are about 145 million 'homes' in the U.S.)

I have some expertise in this space; my opinion is we won't see any major data centers or AI compute clusters in MA at any point in the near future. You're looking for 4 things when you site a data center: Land, Power, Network, Taxes. None of those qualities are conducive to data center construction in MA; land is expensive, so is power, network access is middling, and excise taxes on your servers will kill you. The same is true of our neighboring states. There's a reason that the hyperscale Meta / Alphabet / AWS / Azure (Facebook, Google, Amazon, Microsoft) data centers are all way out in the boonies - think 200+ megawatt, million square foot facilities with a few hundred thousand servers being built out in Iowa, Ohio and the Carolinas.

While power is technically transportable, as interconnected grids prove, but its generally not a great idea. Interconnect capacity is limited, and you have line losses, so ideally you generate it close to where you use it. Mystic isn't going to be a huge help in that regard- its older and therefore more expensive to operate in the first place, and there isn't going to be the local demand. I suspect once the remaining units close, what we'll see are either a smaller more efficient peaker plant or something else that will take advantage of the installed grid interconnects, possibly even an energy storage solution like battery banks. What you'll likely see as the AI clusters begin to expand is that new facilities will get built out where is there is excess power capacity, or AI compute will get retrofitted into existing datacenters. The space moves fast; it won't wait for power plant construction. it'll go where there's excess power, but still close to their existing data centers so that you can parallel compute across separate sites rather than at a single site. (there's increasing focus on making the entire process more efficient; on the I/O side you're looking at ~15pJ/b currently but there's a roadmap to 1.5pJ/b.)

 

[stellarfun]

It's operating at a loss, and FERC's agreement to allow Constellation to charge rate payers to subsidize for that expires next month.

Constellation signed an agreement in February to keep the natural gas facility open for another six years.
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2024/02...will-stay-open-under-deal-with-national-grid/

As for AI related demand for electrical power,

Vast swaths of the United States are at risk of running short of power as electricity-hungry data centers and clean-technology factories proliferate around the country, leaving utilities and regulators grasping for credible plans to expand the nation’s creaking power grid.

In Georgia, demand for industrial power is surging to record highs, with the projection of new electricity use for the next decade now 17 times what it was only recently.

Northern Virginia needs the equivalent of several large nuclear power plants to serve all the new data centers planned and under construction. Texas, where electricity shortages are already routine on hot summer days, faces the same dilemma.

“When you look at the numbers, it is staggering,” said Jason Shaw, chairman of the Georgia Public Service Commission, which regulates electricity. “It makes you scratch your head and wonder how we ended up in this situation. How were the projections that far off? This has created a challenge like we have never seen before.”

....It also threatens to stifle the transition to cleaner energy, as utility executives lobby to delay the retirement of fossil fuel plants and bring more online. The power crunch imperils their ability to supply the energy that will be needed to charge the millions of electric cars and household appliances required to meet state and federal climate goals.

Utility projections for the amount of power they will need over the next five years have nearly doubled and are expected to grow, according to a review of regulatory filings by the research firm Grid Strategies.

In Texas, a dramatic increase in data centers for crypto mining is touching off a debate over whether they are a costly drain on an overtaxed grid. An analysis by the consulting firm Wood Mackenzie found that the energy needed by crypto operations aiming to link to the grid would equal a quarter of the electricity used in the state at peak demand. Unlike data centers operated by big tech companies such as Google and Meta, crypto miners generally don’t build renewable-energy projects with the aim of supplying enough zero-emissions energy to the grid to cover their operations.

The result, said Ben Hertz-Shargel, who authored the Wood Mackenzie analysis, is that crypto’s drain on the grid threatens to inhibit the ability of Texas to power other energy-hungry operations that could drive innovation and economic growth, such as factories that produce zero-emissions green hydrogen fuel or industrial charging depots that enable electrification of truck and bus fleets.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2024/03/07/ai-data-centers-power/

And Massachusetts is what? Fat, dumb, and happy?

 

[Wonk]

the location next to that industrial site is quite discouraging TBH ...... but isn't the adjacent site's infrastructure use (petrochemical) to be removed

The site to the east (to the right in the render) are the two remaining generating power units (8 and 9) at Mystic being retired next month. Here's a map. Wynn purchased roughly from the river north to Dexter St., and between Alford St. and Robin St. Further to east of Mystic 8/9 is the industrial scrap/recycling plot which also has been rumored to be in the long-term mix for redevelopment. Like I mentioned previously, I haven't heard anything about Constellation's plans for the land Mystic 8 and 9 are on. Constellation and National Grid signed an agreement in February to keep the LNG terminal operating for six years. That terminal is east of the scrap yard.

 

[Hufer]

The site to the east (to the right in the render) are the two remaining generating power units (8 and 9) at Mystic being retired next month. Here's a map. Wynn purchased roughly from the river north to Dexter St., and between Alford St. and Robin St. Further to east of Mystic 8/9 is the industrial scrap/recycling plot which also has been rumored to be in the long-term mix for redevelopment. Like I mentioned previously, I haven't heard anything about Constellation's plans for the land Mystic 8 and 9 are on. Constellation and National Grid signed an agreement in February to keep the LNG terminal operating for six years. That terminal is east of the scrap yard.

thanks for the info.

 

[Patrick Winn]

Nowadays Stadium infrastructure cannot survive as isolated islands or "white elephant monuments"- either those structures are meant to be designed for multi-purpose venues that can be used all year round, or have additional commercial, assembly, even residential (hotel) components incorporated to the main structure, so they can financially & logistically thrive. As far as this specific case, While the proposal seems exciting, the location next to that industrial site is quite discouraging TBH ...... but isn't the adjacent site's infrastructure use (petrochemical) to be removed in the future..?

How do you explain all the stand-alone soccer-specific stadiums being build in the US? E.g. GEODIS Park.

 

[bigeman312]

I seriously doubt any major college football would be played at this stadium for numerous reasons. 25,000 capacity seems fine to me. 21,000 average attendance means half the Revolution games have less than that amount. Also, let's not forget that soccer around here is played in a few awful weather months so I am not sure you are getting 30,000 to any stadium for March/April games when it is 45 degrees with 20mph winds. It's really not the end of the world if a bunch of games sell out and the Revolution becomes a tougher ticket for the most desirable games.

5 of their 17 regular season home games this year are before May 18, when the average high in Everett is 63F.

While it’s often chilly for the first few games, most home games will be played in warm weather, not unlike the Red Sox.

I could see an Everett-based Revolution averaging 15,000/game for the first five games and coming close to selling out the rest.

 

[New England Born & Raised]

Elsewhere in New England the South Street Power Station in Providence was converted into educational space a few years ago. The Brown Med School along with the nursing programs of both URI and RIC occupy it. The building underwent an extensive renovation and two new floors were added to its roof. The River House student housing complex was built next to it. It is along the river with a riverwalk in front of it between the Point Street road bridge and the Van Leeston pedestrian bridge.

 

[guitarguynboston]

At first I was really disappointed with how bland and simple the renders seem considering what Gillette looks and functions. But after thinking about it Kraft is a pretty smart business man and might be testing out how this investment can work. Simple, small, and basic stadium could be easily resold to a local college or school and be able to recoup his money back. But if the projections pan out or exceed he can always add more seating, retail, and other features as time goes on like what he's been doing with Gillette.

There's a lot of what ifs at this location that could make this venture one of the best destinations in New England or could fail horribly, transportation being one of them, how bad the pollution in the area could cost to fix, and even how well the casino next door grows are just a few..

 

[AmericanFolkLegend]

I was just wondering about exactly that. That's an electrical substation along Alford, and maybe that needs to stay, but I didn't think so.

In part I was wondering because if that substation needs to stay, I don't think there's any possible room for the stadium while keeping the smokestacks (for all the smokestack fans out there).

It's actually 2 substations along Alford Street. A 345kV station north of the driveway/gate and a 115kV substation to the south. They need to stay. They were identified as "Critical Infrastructure" and that's why they got the 25' tall ballistic fences around them (FERC mandate). Also, ISO New England just approved a small expansion to one of the stations that is needed to accommodate the grid when the power plant shuts down.

 

[Hufer]

How do you explain all the stand-alone soccer-specific stadiums being build in the US? E.g. GEODIS Park.

extremely wealthy investors that happen to have ownership in other sports & entertainment capital ventures get to build those stadiums for their own private benefits by LEASING THEM for other venues, IOW those stand-alone soccer specific structures aren't soccer-specific that much BTW Soccer-specific GEODIS park is hosting rock concerts this summer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geodis_Park