New Red and Orange Line Cars

Six new Red Line trains are now in service, according to the New Train Tracker.
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NETransit rosters updated. . .

Orange is still at 142 active cars. There are only 2 undelivered cars left after September's delivery of pairs 1548/1549, but there were no August deliveries on either line so we've seen more delivery slippage from CRRC. 6 cars in-testing.

Red is at 46 active cars, enough for 7 active sets although practice lately has been for operating sets to lag the active fleet by 1 set. 8 cars in testing. There were two pair delivered in September, but once again zero in August.
 
A few more stats…
  • At 46 active cars, new cars now make up 23% of the active Red Line fleet (46/198).
  • Legacy fleet retirement continues apace, with only 18 Pullmans (14 01500s and 4 01600s) remaining on the active roster. Conventional wisdom has been that the 01600s were all but retired, but I happened to ride on one last week, so they're apparently still legitimately active.
  • Another pair of 01700s has also been retired, leaving 52 on the active roster (out of 58 originally).
  • The 01800 fleet is holding steady at 82 active.
 
alewife said:
A few more stats…
  • At 46 active cars, new cars now make up 23% of the active Red Line fleet (46/198).
  • Legacy fleet retirement continues apace, with only 18 Pullmans (14 01500s and 4 01600s) remaining on the active roster. Conventional wisdom has been that the 01600s were all but retired, but I happened to ride on one last week, so they're apparently still legitimately active.
  • Another pair of 01700s has also been retired, leaving 52 on the active roster (out of 58 originally).
  • The 01800 fleet is holding steady at 82 active.
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According to the CRRC "recovery" schedule, the Pullmans should've been fully retired this month with the 66 delivered car. They're a full 12 cars behind that pace.
 
I'm so sick of this Trump Blocking everything I'll be so glad when he's out of office!!! But he's spending 3000 thou to redo the Ballroom at the White House!!!!!! :mad:
 
Yes for the LA metro and they were supposed to build commuter rail cars for Philly but SEPTA terminated the contract (wisely) before their first delivery.

la.urbanize.city

Metro's new subway cars enter service

It took a few years longer than expected, but Metro's HR4000 heavy rail subway cars finally entered service last week.
la.urbanize.city la.urbanize.city
 
Justbuildit said:
Yes for the LA metro and they were supposed to build commuter rail cars for Philly but SEPTA terminated the contract (wisely) before their first delivery.

la.urbanize.city

Metro's new subway cars enter service

It took a few years longer than expected, but Metro's HR4000 heavy rail subway cars finally entered service last week.
la.urbanize.city la.urbanize.city
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Chicago, too. Although both Chicago and L.A. passed on large option orders in favor of RFP's for all-new vehicles from different manufacturers, so both their orders are winding down. Pretty unlikely there'll be any more U.S. customers given that L.A.'s were pretty late, the T's catastrophically late, and SEPTA's commuter rail cars turned complete vaporware by the cancellation they were so late.
 
F-Line to Dudley said:
Chicago, too. Although both Chicago and L.A. passed on large option orders in favor of RFP's for all-new vehicles from different manufacturers, so both their orders are winding down. Pretty unlikely there'll be any more U.S. customers given that L.A.'s were pretty late, the T's catastrophically late, and SEPTA's commuter rail cars turned complete vaporware by the cancellation they were so late.
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Although, CTA's board voted in June this year to extend and reindex their options - they had a cost estimate done such that that all-new procurement of 9000 series cars would run the CTA ~$4.2M per car, with the reindexed CRRC options being 1.5M + 1.2 for ~$2.7M. Based on the transcript, it looks like they're "anticipat[ing] the first option to go into production somewhere -- two years out," which is reinforced by the FY26 budget request.

 

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F-Line to Dudley said:
Chicago, too. Although both Chicago and L.A. passed on large option orders in favor of RFP's for all-new vehicles from different manufacturers, so both their orders are winding down. Pretty unlikely there'll be any more U.S. customers given that L.A.'s were pretty late, the T's catastrophically late, and SEPTA's commuter rail cars turned complete vaporware by the cancellation they were so late.
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Does that mean the springfield factory will be closing?
 
Most likely yes once the MBTA and LA Metro orders are finished. CRRC has been barred from future federally-funded rolling stock procurements, with carveouts for the MBTA, CTA, SEPTA, and LA Metro (including future orders), but those agencies seem unlikely to go back to CRRC given their performance. It's possible that CRRC could sell the plant to another manufacturer looking to expand, but a bunch of stars would need to align for that to be viable.

The CTA order is being built at a different factory (in Chicago) by a different division of CRRC, so the CTA picking up their options won't make a difference in keeping the Springfield plant open. (CRRC was formed by a merger of two companies, CNR and CSR. The Springfield factory is part of the former CNR side, while the Chicago factory is part of the former CSR side. Both CNR and CSR bid on the MBTA contract, but CSR was disqualified after the technical evaluation.)
 
SEPTA wisely stepped out & walked away. They may decide to go with Kawasaki. :)
 
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alewife said:
The CTA order is being built at a different factory (in Chicago) by a different division of CRRC, so the CTA picking up their options won't make a difference in keeping the Springfield plant open. (CRRC was formed by a merger of two companies, CNR and CSR. The Springfield factory is part of the former CNR side, while the Chicago factory is part of the former CSR side. Both CNR and CSR bid on the MBTA contract, but CSR was disqualified after the technical evaluation.)
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Notably however, Chicago's ex CSR CRRC plant is the one managing to deliver cars - Between Sept 2024 and August 2025 they've delivered 124 cars, for a rate of 10+/month. CNR was better at getting orders (SEPTA, LACMTA) but the Springfield plant has been lucky to produce 4-6 a month (2-3 Married pairs.)

It rather begs the question if we would have our fleet by now if we hadn't disqualified CSR - the CTA seems happy with their fleet thus far.
 
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Stlin said:
It rather begs the question if we would have our fleet by now if we hadn't disqualified CSR - the CTA seems happy with their fleet thus far.
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The rules of the procurement was that you had to meet the technical specifications to be a valid bidder. CSR didn't do that, so they weren't allowed to bid at all and got culled before that process even started. It doesn't make much difference if their assembly process went corporately smoother; their cars weren't a technical fit for the Orange and Red Lines and the OLT/RLT improvements to begin with. I'm pretty sure it would've been illegal by state procurement rules to "aww, shucks!" them and grant a mulligan on not meeting the base requirements, so ultimately it's a moot point. We were never getting their cars because they didn't pitch a make the T could actually use.
 
F-Line to Dudley said:
The rules of the procurement was that you had to meet the technical specifications to be a valid bidder. CSR didn't do that, so they weren't allowed to bid at all and got culled before that process even started. It doesn't make much difference if their assembly process went corporately smoother; their cars weren't a technical fit for the Orange and Red Lines and the OLT/RLT improvements to begin with. I'm pretty sure it would've been illegal by state procurement rules to "aww, shucks!" them and grant a mulligan on not meeting the base requirements, so ultimately it's a moot point. We were never getting their cars because they didn't pitch a make the T could actually use.
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You're not wrong that by procurement rules it would have been very improper - but I'd say it was largely inexperience at bidding in the US and the western world generally, and thus at preparing the paperwork and less their technical ability to deliver a trainset that would have worked for the T.

The scoring workbooks are still available, and the summary calls it "a lack of understanding of North American car procurement standards and processes."
Just compare and contrast how they responded to the MBTAs vehicle safety requirements and its no surprise that the MBTA found the CSR technical proposal unacceptable as unresponsive to the RFP. CSR's scorings are notable for how often the phrases "The proposer's response is considered to be of marginal/ unacceptable quality in terms of basic content and amount of information presented for evaluation" or "The Proposer's response lacks essential information" occurs.

It shouldn't be expected for the T to hold CSR's hand and walk through the requirements - CSR rightly was dismissed as they didn't read the instructions, and its entirely fair on that basis for the T to have not trusted that they would build something the T was willing to accept.

I've had some professional contact with both parent entities in China, and CSR was, and still is, much more insular and focused on the China domestic market than CNR. Both are equally able to build subway cars, but in 2014 at the time of the MBTA bid, CSR Sifang had no exports of anything other than some locomotive hauled equipment to the developing world and a handful of DMUs to Sri Lanka and Iraq. Their Singapore MTR project, the only one approaching the level of technical specification the MBTA and the west expects, was led in design by Kawasaki. By contrast, CNR had already led their own Argentinian, Australian, Singaporean and Thai projects competing with the rest of the global transit rolling stock players, a process that CSR just hadn't engaged with when they bid for the RL & OL. Chinese cities and more importantly the centrally managed top down directed process consisting of a group of SoEs? CSR didn't exactly have to pitch its capabilities and offering against CNR. That was likely fixed by 2016 and the CTA bid, but in 2014 CSR ignored how to write a bid proposal that was actually responsive to what the T's rubric scored them on.

 

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So, we know about about the production delays, but is the T generally happy with the build quality?
 
www.wbur.org

Forced labor reviews influencing new MBTA train deliveries

Shipments of Chinese-manufactured train shells have slowed in recent months — in part because of ongoing federal forced-labor reviews — contributing to delays that pushed the builder past a September delivery deadline for the Orange Line.
www.wbur.org www.wbur.org
The manufacturer of new MBTA Red and Orange Line fleets missed the September deadline to complete all 152 Orange Line cars, after U.S. Customs officials detained multiple shipments of train shells and components under a federal forced-labor law. Transit officials say the builder, China Railway Rolling Stock Corporation MA (CRRC), remains on pace to finish the Orange Line order by year’s end.
The MBTA expects to receive another pair of Orange Line cars on Thursday, bringing the total to 150. The final two cars are scheduled to arrive next month, closing out the 152-car order required under the contract.
The new Orange Line fleet, which began entering service in September 2022, has been large enough to support reliable operations, officials said, allowing the T earlier this year to direct CRRC to prioritize Red Line production instead.
So far, the T has received 58 new Red Line cars, with two more expected in December. Those vehicles — part of a 252-car replacement fleet — are running years behind schedule.
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The NETransit roster got updated a few days ago, so here are some updates:
  • 150 out of 152 Orange Line cars are now delivered, and the last two cars are "planned" for December. It's been far too long coming (almost four years behind the original schedule!), but completion of the Orange Line side of the order will be a major milestone for the project and will hopefully allow the pace of Red Line deliveries to pick up.
  • However, another pair of Orange Line cars (1444/1445) is now listed as out of service with "derailment damage." I can't find any news coverage of a recent derailment, so I'm guessing it was a yard derailment with hopefully only minor damage that can easily be repaired.
  • The Red Line is up to 58 out of 252 cars delivered (23%) with 48 of those in service. New cars now comprise 25% of the active Red Line fleet (48/194), but that number is a bit inflated since legacy fleet retirement has been outpacing new deliveries.
  • CRRC is still not meeting the schedule outlined in the contract "reset" last year. They had been consistently delivering 4 cars per month for a while, but even that's been slipping recently. CRRC delivered at least 4 cars per month (generally 2 Orange/2 Red) from July 2024 through July 2025, and even got 6 cars delivered in August 2024 and July 2025. But then there were no deliveries in August, and it was back to 4 cars in each of September and October, with only 2 cars delivered in November. 4 cars are again listed as "planned" for December, but the ultimate production goal (and the rate set by the original contract once production was fully ramped up) is 8 cars per month. The customs issues probably didn't help, especially because part of the "reset" agreement is allowing CRRC to do some assembly work in Changchun before shipping the cars to Springfield instead of just making the shells there, but my understanding has been that all of the Orange Line shells have been stateside for years now along with a decent number of Red Line shells.
  • On the Red Line legacy fleet side, there are still 18 Pullmans kicking around, including four 01600s (even though the rest of that sub-type has been gone for months now). I managed to catch an all-Pullman consist (including two of the remaining 01600s) a few weeks back that was in pretty sorry shape, with one car isolated, multiple door leaves cut out, and an illuminated traction fault light. They've served the region very well for 56 years, but it's time for them to go. 6 01700s are now listed as out of service with "accident damage" (again, no media coverage I can find, so presumably a yard incident), so we'll see if they get repaired or not. Peak vehicle requirement is listed as 128 cars (10 trains for Ashmont and 12 for Braintree, with one four-car train per branch), which even with the current active fleet of 194 cars leaves a healthy 34% spare ratio, but it's definitely affecting service—peak vehicle requirement pre-COVID was 168 cars (12 trains for Ashmont and 16 for Braintree).
 
www.bostonglobe.com

A tough morning for the T: mechanical issues cause delays on multiple lines - The Boston Globe

Commuters on a number of lines suffered delays this morning.
www.bostonglobe.com www.bostonglobe.com
“It appears some older legacy fleet Red Line trains are experiencing propulsion power problems — the ability to move forward — as they travel southbound near Harvard,“ an MBTA spokesperson said. ”This has presented enough of a pattern that the decision was made to access the track in this area today to diagnose the issue and make a plan for repairs if needed."
The first signs of trouble arose just before 7:30 a.m., when the MBTA reported a disabled train at Harvard Square. By 8:45 a.m., the broken train had been removed from service; about 30 minutes later, the residual delays had cleared, the MBTA said.
Less than an hour later, the MBTA reported a “power problem” between Alewife and Porter Square. By 10:55 a.m., officials announced that it was single-tracking trains on the stretch between Alewife and Harvard “due to an ongoing track problem at Harvard.”
[...]
The Red Line has experienced hours of delays in recent months, according to data compiled by research and advocacy group TransitMatters. The bulk of the delays were attributed to disabled trains.
On the Orange Line, meanwhile, a train broke down at North Station just before 7 a.m., according to the MBTA. The delay cleared around 8:30 a.m.
According to agency alerts posted to X, the MBTA has documented at least 150 instances of disabled Orange Line trains delaying service since September 2022, when officials say the line’s fleet consisted only of newer cars produced by the Chinese company CRRC.
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