North End Cross Street Boutique Hotel | 42 Cross Street | North End

[bdurden]

If anywhere along the greenway is in need of a statement — it’s right here.
There should be nothing “filler” about this.
I’m not suggesting a high rise but absolutely a “look at me” building. This is the most architecturally devoid section of the greenway.

 

[dshoost88]

What all this discussion is really saying is that this is a lousy place for a hotel.

You cannot short change a hotel curb cut, all you do is generate double parked and standing vehicles. (The cars don't magically go away.) So if the traffic generated by a hotel is going to be detrimental to the plaza effect here, don't put a hotel here. Find a different use for the parcel!

Au Contraire, I am a huge fan of a hotel on this site. I don't even take much issue with the proposed massing/design of the building itself. From a market standpoint, Boston has a shortage of hotel rooms. Even factoring in the decimation of the tourism/hospitality sector during the COVID-19 pandemic, the opening date for a development proposal like this will be 2024 at the earliest... I have to believe by then the hospitality sectors will fully rebound to their pre-2020 levels by then. And when it comes to being near the Boston places people want to visit (Greenway, Quincy Market, North End, Freedom Trail, Aquarium, Harborwalk, TD Garden), this is a fantastic spot for a new hotel. Between North End brownstones from the north-exposure rooms or the unobstructed Downtown skyline from the south facing ones, kudos to the development team on the proposed use here... I was starting to get lab proposal fatigue.

There is a difference between a hotel curb cut and a swooping driveway as proposed. I've personally stayed at 20+ boutique hotels around the world that lacked any kind of special curb treatment and contributed meaningfully to the urban streetscape. Boston's full of its own urban hotel examples that have no driveway yet work: Yotel, Mandarin Oriental, W, Moxy, The Collonade, Copley Square Hotel, Lenox, Eliot, and Envoy.

 

[bigpicture7]

...There is a difference between a hotel curb cut and a swooping driveway as proposed. I've personally stayed at 20+ boutique hotels around the world that lacked any kind of special curb treatment and contributed meaningfully to the urban streetscape. Boston's full of its own urban hotel examples that have no driveway yet work: Yotel, Mandarin Oriental, W, Moxy, The Collonade, Copley Square Hotel, Lenox, Eliot, and Envoy.

How about something like this? One of the most unique local examples, IMO. Here's the aerial perspective.

There's even the possibility of having some of the upper floors overhang, like this but more so, to recover hotel square footage.

 

[curcuas]

Hotels are great and in a supply constrained city like Boston, almost equivalent to new homes, especially with Airbnb and other forms of long term rentals. Let us not forget that Boston had the highest hotel rents of the continental US pre pandemic and that this will not change as travel resumes --- the economy is hotter than ever.

 

[BeyondRevenue]

The irish pub in one rendering turns into a chase branch in the next, making it by far the most accurate rendering we've had on AB -

Sorry to disappoint: The damage is already done. That's been a Chase Bank for 2 years or more. Goody Glovers... RIP

That whole Cross Street section is carchitecture pure and simple. They ripped down tons of 60+ footers to put the tunnel in back in the 1920s and 30s. Cross Street has been an open scar ever since with the 50s' Central Artery mangling it even more. We still have a little urban surgery to do, so I welcome this.

Though, this project should be closer to the Greenway and taller! Like above, I would prefer more housing, but I'll take anything to warm up the frozen 'skirt' of windswept extra yards you have to walk to actually get in to the neighborhood. Skirts are for babes with nice gams and suburban design, not urban neighborhoods.

 

[Charlie_mta]

There's no reason not to straighten out the street wall to fit the current straight alignment of Cross Street, which used to be curved prior to the Big Dig, Why perpetuate the large setback caused by the street realignment?

 

[vanshnookenraggen]

There's no reason not to straighten out the street wall to fit the current straight alignment of Cross Street, which used to be curved prior to the Big Dig, Why perpetuate the large setback caused by the street realignment?

It's dramatic and adds more plaza space for pedestrians. I think the curve makes it stand out more (despite calling this a background building).

 

[JeffDowntown]

Au Contraire, I am a huge fan of a hotel on this site. I don't even take much issue with the proposed massing/design of the building itself. From a market standpoint, Boston has a shortage of hotel rooms. Even factoring in the decimation of the tourism/hospitality sector during the COVID-19 pandemic, the opening date for a development proposal like this will be 2024 at the earliest... I have to believe by then the hospitality sectors will fully rebound to their pre-2020 levels by then. And when it comes to being near the Boston places people want to visit (Greenway, Quincy Market, North End, Freedom Trail, Aquarium, Harborwalk, TD Garden), this is a fantastic spot for a new hotel. Between North End brownstones from the north-exposure rooms or the unobstructed Downtown skyline from the south facing ones, kudos to the development team on the proposed use here... I was starting to get lab proposal fatigue.

There is a difference between a hotel curb cut and a swooping driveway as proposed. I've personally stayed at 20+ boutique hotels around the world that lacked any kind of special curb treatment and contributed meaningfully to the urban streetscape. Boston's full of its own urban hotel examples that have no driveway yet work: Yotel, Mandarin Oriental, W, Moxy, The Collonade, Copley Square Hotel, Lenox, Eliot, and Envoy.

I cannot speak to all the hotels references, but I know that the lack of curb cuts at the W and the Moxy used to cause huge traffic headaches on Stuart Street. The City addressed that issue with the most recent lane alignments on Stuart, giving both hotels large, dedicated, on-street valet lanes, that are protected from thru traffic by the configuration of the new bike lanes. So sure, if you can give up travel lanes on a large street to provide valet spaces to a hotel on the city street, then you can get by without a curb cut.

 

[BronsonShore]

I cannot speak to all the hotels references, but I know that the lack of curb cuts at the W and the Moxy used to cause huge traffic headaches on Stuart Street. The City addressed that issue with the most recent lane alignments on Stuart, giving both hotels large, dedicated, on-street valet lanes, that are protected from thru traffic by the configuration of the new bike lanes. So sure, if you can give up travel lanes on a large street to provide valet spaces to a hotel on the city street, then you can get by without a curb cut.

The Moxy and W are both 20+ story towers with over a hundred rooms each and multiple bars and restaurants. This small boutique isn’t going to see nearly as much traffic. Moreover, this is more than a curb cut, it’s a damn driveway. This hotel needs nothing more than what you see at the XV or Godfrey:

 

[Tension Member]

God, that is so incredibly generic.

I will try my best to be nice here, but the City of Boston, with respect to urban design and architecture in certain areas of the City are being held hostage by ultra traditionists and in the North End, this is where you will find the most fervent naysayer NIMBYS (moderators, I am not shouting as this is an anacronym and must be in all caps) of this stripe.

Every project, that is every project proposed in or adjacent to the North End has come under severe scrutiny for being too tall, too much shadow and most especially "too modern" in appearance. I love the North End as the food there is great, it is a nice place to walk, it is historical as well, but please, Boston and especially the North End, is not a museum; the old guard traditionists living in the North End are essentially wrong in enforcing their own take on what should be and should not be built in their neighborhood, and sorry to say, but there is no law that states that the North End must remain an Italian enclave (the Jewish West End was completely bulldozed down to the ground, quite literally in ca. 1960), and therefore everything in Boston should be subject to change - ethnicity, racial makeup, building styles, mind sets, technology, the whole works are all subject to change, and moreover, clinging to the past is quite detrimental to all for moving forward.

Long response to your statement of this design being so generic, but my text as above is a detailed explanation as to why this hotel cannot have one bit of dash, splash or stunning architectural attributes affixed to its bland and boring façade. Such notions with respect to more dramatic architectural design will have to wait another 25 to 30 years from now when the North End will see an end to the reign of the old guard.

 

[whighlander]

I will try my best to be nice here, but the City of Boston, with respect to urban design and architecture in certain areas of the City are being held hostage by ultra traditionists and in the North End, this is where you will find the most fervent naysayer NIMBYS (moderators, I am not shouting as this is an anacronym and must be in all caps) of this stripe. Every project, that is every project proposed in or adjacent to the North End has come under severe scrutiny for being too tall, too much shadow and most especially "too modern" in appearance. I love the North End as the food there is great, it is a nice place to walk, it is historical as well, but please, Boston and especially the North End, is not a museum; the old guard traditionists living in the North End are essentially wrong in enforcing their own take on what should be and should not be built in their neighborhood, and sorry to say, but there is no law that states that the North End must remain an Italian enclave (the Jewish West End was completely bulldozed down to the ground, quite literally in ca. 1960), and therefore everything in Boston should be subject to change - ethnicity, racial makeup, building styles, mind sets, technology, the whole works are all subject to change, and moreover, clinging to the past is quite detrimental to all for moving forward. Long response to your statement of this design being so generic, but my text as above is a detailed explanation as to why this hotel cannot have one bit of dash, splash or stunning architectural attributes affixed to its bland and boring façade. Such notions with respect to more dramatic architectural design will have to wait another 25 to 30 years from now when the North End will see an end to the reign of the old guard.

Tension Member -- some good points
However -- the North End is no-longer an Italian Enclave -- it's a mixed-Yuppy enclave with some residents remaining from of the pre-demolition of the Green Monster
Once the Big Dig was over -- lots of people in Finance, Legal, some business consultants and such working just across from the North End e.g. State Street suddenly realized that for less money than they were paying to live in the Back Bay or Beacon Hill and an even shorter walk that they could live and eat in the North End

The key about the Cross Street parcel is that its really been on the outside of the North End certainly since the Tunnel and former Central Artery ramps
Now that the ramps are a lot less of a pedestrian nightmare -- is high time that the edge of the North End be expanded and a boutique hotel is perfect for the site

As Mike pointed out the real "stinker" on the edge of the North End is the Police / Municipal lot -- there is no excuse for the City keeping that
Let a developer do the P.O. Sq thing -- put some parking underground
Give the city access to designated spaces
Let the developer then build a slim tower [residential] on a retail pedestal

 

[shmessy]

I really don't understand the booming demand for more hotels. One's going up across the greenway at Haymarket. Now this. We need housing, not more rooms sitting empty 70% of the time...

Every year, tens of millons of people are moving from subsistence huts to the middle class (for the first time in their families' lineage) in India, China, Indonesia, Brazil, Nigeria, etc. The coming international tourism explosion will be won by the cities that have world-reknown history AND the capacity to receive these newly minted discretionary spenders.

Boston has some forward thinking planners who can see the multi-decade tsunami that is gathering. If it is difficult for xenophobes in Boston today, just wait 5 years........it will be amazing. Boston is about to become a far more international city than it is now.

The other side you mention - housing needs - is, indeed, where Boston is dropping the ball and has to wake up.

 

[whighlander]

Every year, tens of millons of people are moving from subsistence huts to the middle class (for the first time in their families' lineage) in India, China, Indonesia, Brazil, Nigeria, etc. The coming international tourism explosion will be won by the cities that have world-reknown history AND the capacity to receive these newly minted discretionary spenders.

Boston has some forward thinking planners who can see the multi-decade tsunami that is gathering. If it is difficult for xenophobes in Boston today, just wait 5 years........it will be amazing. Boston is about to become a far more international city than it is now.

The other side you mention - housing needs - is, indeed, where Boston is dropping the ball and has to wake up.

Shmessy -- We really don't know about the "housing need" for Boston or Greater Boston --various planners without much real data have been projecting numbers of housing units which need to be built --- they seem extreme given past population data for the region
However -- Because of COVID-19 -- A lot of things have been "otherly dynamic":
collapse in tourists and business travelers through Logan
people fleeing formerly "in cities" including Boston *1 {Redfin shows an outmigration -24,530 --- Boston itself was gaining about 3k to 4k per year -- Note that the loss is from the Boston Metro [not clear which definition of Metro]}



It may take some time before the short-term transients die down and we can see what is the new underlying dynamic

*1
from Redfin website

https://www.redfin.com/news/homebuyer-popular-destinations-housing-shortage-2020/

2020 migration data from

Austin, Atlanta & Tampa Are Attracting Homebuyers From More Expensive Cities, Contributing to a Housing Supply Crunch

February 4, 2021 by Dana Anderson
Updated on February 5th, 2021
Twenty-eight percent of Redfin.com users looked to move to another metro area in 2020, up from 25.5% in 2019, driving double-digit inventory shortages in popular destinations.
Nationwide, 27.8% of Redfin.com users looked to move to another metro area in 2020. That’s up from 25.5% in 2019, a 9% year-over-year increase. The increase is driven by people leaving expensive coastal areas for relatively affordable places....

To analyze the metro-level 2020 migration trends reported below, Redfin used a combination of Redfin.com search data and U.S. Census Bureau data to determine the most popular destinations of the year and the places people were most commonly looking to leave, and to estimate net inflows and outflows for the metros mentioned in this report.

Metro area	Net outflow	Number of homes for sale, YoY	Median home price (Dec. 2020)	Median home price, YoY	New-construction building permits, YoY

New York, NY	-273,248	27.7%	$550,000	10.2%	-13.1%
Los Angeles, CA	-124,175	1.4%	$730,000	12.3%	-40.4%
Chicago, IL	-107,246	-20.3%	$270,000	12.1%	-48.3%
Bay Area, CA	-45,482	San Francisco: 76.7% San Jose: 27.7% Oakland: 7.6%	San Francisco: $1,355,000 San Jose: $1,195,000 Oakland: $816,000	San Francisco: 3% San Jose: 13.3% Oakland: 12.6%	San Francisco: -78.6% San Jose: -39.6% Oakland: -28.9%
Detroit, MI	-29,519	-37.7%	$155,000	14.8%	122.1%
Seattle, WA	-25,269	-7.9%	$625,000	9.6%	-49.8%
Boston, MA	-24,530	-7.7%	$550,000	10%	15.5%
Miami, FL	-23,886	-15.9%	$367,000	16.5%	24.5%
Washington, D.C.	-15,288	-5%	$450,000	7.4%	-12.9%
Baton Rouge, LA	-14,897	-44.7%	$225,000	4.7%	9.9%

 

[shmessy]

Shmessy -- We really don't know about the "housing need" for Boston or Greater Boston --various planners without much real data have been projecting numbers of housing units which need to be built --- they seem extreme given past population data for the region
However -- Because of COVID-19 -- A lot of things have been "otherly dynamic":
collapse in tourists and business travelers through Logan
people fleeing formerly "in cities" including Boston *1 {Redfin shows an outmigration -24,530 --- Boston itself was gaining about 3k to 4k per year -- Note that the loss is from the Boston Metro [not clear which definition of Metro]}



It may take some time before the short-term transients die down and we can see what is the new underlying dynamic

*1
from Redfin website

https://www.redfin.com/news/homebuyer-popular-destinations-housing-shortage-2020/

2020 migration data from

Relevant to THIS THREAD, there is a future need for hotels in Boston (not based on unfortunately shortsighted, 11 month pandemic snapshots) and one makes sense in this location.

 

[whighlander]

Relevant to THIS THREAD, there is a future need for hotels in Boston (not based on unfortunately shortsighted, 11 month pandemic snapshots) and one makes sense in this location.

Agreed

It should be "Kind" to the North End -- but not necessarily does it have to look as if it was the Former Prince Spaghetti factory

 

[jass]

I dont get floor to ceiling windows in hotels. You get no privacy. As soon as it gets dark, you have to close the curtains all the way. Especially in a short building. Hell, look at the real pics of the two hotels posted on this page - all the curtains are fully closed!

 

[Life Coach Mike]

I dont get floor to ceiling windows in hotels. You get no privacy. As soon as it gets dark, you have to close the curtains all the way. Especially in a short building. Hell, look at the real pics of the two hotels posted on this page - all the curtains are fully closed!

More glass, more windows, less masonry to screw up and reduce to aluminum panels. Large windows also give the impression of luxury. Look at the Hilton near the Pru. What a sorry excuse for a building, let alone a hotel, thrown up with precast concrete, tiny windows and ugliness all around...so ugly that they had to add the rounded corner glass structure to give it some personality. As for privacy...no matter what the window size, prudish types will close curtains, unless they're on the 25th floor.

 

[goody]

The massing is really good I think and makes the transition from the Greenway into the North End feel much more intentional. This with a few modifications to the fenestration and ground floor activation this going to go a long way to repairing the rough edge left by the highway.

 

[cjbski]

I think the building itself is bland and boring, but that's what you'll get when trying to do anything in the North End because the neighborhood is so brutal to do anything in.

I agree the driveway isn't ideal, but you really do need a place to safely pull in here. Cross St. is a total speedway with people coming off the highway and having a simple "side area" a-la XV Beacon won't work because the road is too busy.

And with that said, outdoor dining in this spot would not be pleasant because being too close to the road where many trucks, etc. fly by would be hard/very loud.

I think the real opportunity missed here is next door between Salem and Hanover, which could truly be a magical gateway to the North End.

 

[bigpicture7]

I agree the driveway isn't ideal, but you really do need a place to safely pull in here. Cross St. is a total speedway with people coming off the highway and having a simple "side area" a-la XV Beacon won't work because the road is too busy.

And with that said, outdoor dining in this spot would not be pleasant because being too close to the road where many trucks, etc. fly by would be hard/very loud.

I said it earlier above, but for the reasons you state, I think the unique approach of having the building itself enclose its driveway, with a distinct pull-in that is minimal from an aesthetic and obtrusiveness standpoint, could be something to consider here. That approach also could offer a better streetwall facing the greenway.