The garage is in a very bad state of decrepitude and a savvy developer would allow that decrepitude to continue unabated.
Pinnacle at Central Wharf (Harbor Garage) | 70 East India Row | Waterfront | Downtown
- Thread starter Equilibria
- Start date
- Status
stellarfun
Senior Member
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2006
- Messages
- 5,690
- Reaction score
- 1,506
https://www.boston.com/uncategorize...0m-in-financing-for-the-boston-harbor-garage/
^^^ This article is from 2013. IIRC--and confirmation can probably be found in an even older aB thread re: Chiofaro's proposed development -- 2013 marked the refinancing of a five-year balloon note provided to Chiofaro et al in 2008 (for a smaller amount).
Obviously, the 2013, five-year $90 million note was refinanced in 2018, and now again in 2023. No need to delve into not paying down even $1 of the principal, especially given the current environment of rising interest rates.
^^^ This article is from 2013. IIRC--and confirmation can probably be found in an even older aB thread re: Chiofaro's proposed development -- 2013 marked the refinancing of a five-year balloon note provided to Chiofaro et al in 2008 (for a smaller amount).
Obviously, the 2013, five-year $90 million note was refinanced in 2018, and now again in 2023. No need to delve into not paying down even $1 of the principal, especially given the current environment of rising interest rates.
What is it about Mayor Wu that will prevent these sorts of developments from happening?
I should turn this around and ask where your faith comes from that tall buildings remain in our horizon?
1. While on the city council she publicly opposed many large projects, including Winthrop Square.
Divisions Deepen over the Winthrop Square Tower Shadows
Getting this thing built will not be easy.
www.bostonmagazine.com
Boston mayors have had an open-door policy with real estate developers. Not Michelle Wu. - The Boston Globe
Since her election in November, developers have been clamoring to set up one-on-one meetings with Mayor Michelle Wu about big projects that would create thousands of jobs and add millions in tax revenue, but many have been redirected to meet with other members of her administration.
www.bostonglobe.com
Mayor Wu signals shift in development priorities
One of her first big moves is to say she’ll focus first on East Boston neighborhoods grappling with rising rents and climate change.
www.boston.com
5. Early returns on key "litmus" parcels, such as the Hurley site and that garage by South Station, point to height being the enemy.
Where is the next 500' building going to come from? She talks about affordable housing and yet...
Last year was the slowest for new housing approvals in Boston since 2015. Some warn 2023 will be slower. - The Boston Globe
Some developers are considering pulling back amid high interest rates, a shaky economy, and worries about costly new requirements to build in the city.
www.bostonglobe.com
Under her, height is the enemy, housing will stall, and critical parcels that could hold major residential towers will instead be built as squat labs because those are the incentives that have been created.
Of course, then we can turn to the larger issue of the state's imminent downward trajectory after the Questions 1 and 4 fiasco, which is going to further incentive businesses and value creators to seek greener($$$) pastures out of state, simultaneously shrinking our tax intake while increasing our tax dependency. By 2028-2030 all of these mistakes are going to be painfully obvious. At least we had a good run on the skyscraper front and that won't be taken away from us. "A bird in the hand is better than 2 in the bush." I'll be happy for the next few years with our 10 buildings 600'+ and 23 500'+, but when it's the same entering the 2030's don't say I didn't warn you.
The one building X-factor is that 700' residential near North Station. Everything else over 500' has stalled or outright died on the vine so there's nothing left in the pipeline. Would any of you bet on that getting built?
Isn’t she also pushing to INCREASE the height limit downtown to encourage residential development?I should turn this around and ask where your faith comes from that tall buildings remain in our horizon?
1. While on the city council she publicly opposed many large projects, including Winthrop Square.
2. She publicly works against developers and not with them. She caters more to her NIMBY base there.Divisions Deepen over the Winthrop Square Tower Shadows
Getting this thing built will not be easy.
3. This proposal has no chance while she's in office.Boston mayors have had an open-door policy with real estate developers. Not Michelle Wu. - The Boston Globe
Since her election in November, developers have been clamoring to set up one-on-one meetings with Mayor Michelle Wu about big projects that would create thousands of jobs and add millions in tax revenue, but many have been redirected to meet with other members of her administration.
4. Rent control isn't going to incentive residential development here.Mayor Wu signals shift in development priorities
One of her first big moves is to say she’ll focus first on East Boston neighborhoods grappling with rising rents and climate change.www.boston.com
5. Early returns on key "litmus" parcels, such as the Hurley site and that garage by South Station, point to height being the enemy.
Where is the next 500' building going to come from? She talks about affordable housing and yet...
Last year was the slowest for new housing approvals in Boston since 2015. Some warn 2023 will be slower. - The Boston Globe
Some developers are considering pulling back amid high interest rates, a shaky economy, and worries about costly new requirements to build in the city.
Under her, height is the enemy, housing will stall, and critical parcels that could hold major residential towers will instead be built as squat labs because those are the incentives that have been created.
Of course, then we can turn to the larger issue of the state's imminent downward trajectory after the Questions 1 and 4 fiasco, which is going to further incentive businesses and value creators to seek greener($$$) pastures out of state, simultaneously shrinking our tax intake while increasing our tax dependency. By 2028-2030 all of these mistakes are going to be painfully obvious. At least we had a good run on the skyscraper front and that won't be taken away from us. "A bird in the hand is better than 2 in the bush." I'll be happy for the next few years with our 10 buildings 600'+ and 23 500'+, but when it's the same entering the 2030's don't say I didn't warn you.
The one building X-factor is that 700' residential near North Station. Everything else over 500' has stalled or outright died on the vine so there's nothing left in the pipeline. Would any of you bet on that getting built?
If another 500'+ building gets started in this city before the 2030's, and Mayor Wu's administration was involved in the approval process, I'll say I was wrong.
This one is gathering dust on the shelf. Copley Place Tower is likely exiting the window for the 14/15 approvals it supposedly had to be built. One Bromfield, Hurley, and that garage by South Station all have proposals well under 500' on prime parcels. I guess there is that 700' longshot by North Station, but is there even an official proposal there yet? 7 years is a long enough time where if she was going to allow height, that could get approved. Are you bullish on those chances? Otherwise, where are we getting 500'?
stellarfun
Senior Member
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2006
- Messages
- 5,690
- Reaction score
- 1,506
He was a senior, and outstanding linebacker, on the 1967 Harvard football team. Deduct 21 years from 1967 = 1946.
None of these have anything to do with the mayor.
bigpicture7
Senior Member
- Joined
- May 5, 2016
- Messages
- 3,763
- Reaction score
- 8,700
Over the past decade, I am actually hard pressed to think of a single Massachusetts politician who has talked about increasing opportunities for building height more than the mayor.
HenryAlan
Senior Member
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2009
- Messages
- 3,962
- Reaction score
- 3,884
DZ has some sort of issue with the Mayor, which he thinks is confirmed by the lack of a tall building springing from the ether during her first 2 years. I guess maybe if he lived in Boston, he could vote for somebody else in the next election.
That said, I recommend the mods lock this thread again. The very first non-staff post was exactly the kind of nasty, unhelpful, off topic post that got the thread locked in the first place.
That said, I recommend the mods lock this thread again. The very first non-staff post was exactly the kind of nasty, unhelpful, off topic post that got the thread locked in the first place.
bigpicture7
Senior Member
- Joined
- May 5, 2016
- Messages
- 3,763
- Reaction score
- 8,700
Wow, good thing this thread got unlocked. Stimulating discussion…
Agree, but I suppose sometimes you need to re-open the lid of the toilet to realize it needs another flush
My "issue" is with what I perceive to be bad policies, related to both development as well as other matters. Regarding the development side, I posted my evidence, you all post your feelings. I said if I'm wrong that I'll come here and publicly admit to being wrong. Will any of you do the same?
Yeah, and where is the next 500' building going to come from? Also her opposition on city council absolutely had an effect on stymieing large developments.
Again, if I'm proven wrong I'll say I'm wrong. Will you?
This is all true --- and in terms of people who wanted to increase height limits how about Mayor Walsh and Councillor Bok?
Plan Downtown started under Walsh and has been slowly descoped to allow less height.
Wu may be coming around on some development questions, but not worth pretending she doesn't have a NIMBY history.
Plan Downtown started under Walsh and has been slowly descoped to allow less height.
Wu may be coming around on some development questions, but not worth pretending she doesn't have a NIMBY history.
I should turn this around and ask where your faith comes from that tall buildings remain in our horizon?
1. While on the city council she publicly opposed many large projects, including Winthrop Square.
2. She publicly works against developers and not with them. She caters more to her NIMBY base there.Divisions Deepen over the Winthrop Square Tower Shadows
Getting this thing built will not be easy.
3. This proposal has no chance while she's in office.Boston mayors have had an open-door policy with real estate developers. Not Michelle Wu. - The Boston Globe
Since her election in November, developers have been clamoring to set up one-on-one meetings with Mayor Michelle Wu about big projects that would create thousands of jobs and add millions in tax revenue, but many have been redirected to meet with other members of her administration.
4. Rent control isn't going to incentive residential development here.Mayor Wu signals shift in development priorities
One of her first big moves is to say she’ll focus first on East Boston neighborhoods grappling with rising rents and climate change.www.boston.com
5. Early returns on key "litmus" parcels, such as the Hurley site and that garage by South Station, point to height being the enemy.
Where is the next 500' building going to come from? She talks about affordable housing and yet...
Last year was the slowest for new housing approvals in Boston since 2015. Some warn 2023 will be slower. - The Boston Globe
Some developers are considering pulling back amid high interest rates, a shaky economy, and worries about costly new requirements to build in the city.
Under her, height is the enemy, housing will stall, and critical parcels that could hold major residential towers will instead be built as squat labs because those are the incentives that have been created.
Of course, then we can turn to the larger issue of the state's imminent downward trajectory after the Questions 1 and 4 fiasco, which is going to further incentive businesses and value creators to seek greener($$$) pastures out of state, simultaneously shrinking our tax intake while increasing our tax dependency. By 2028-2030 all of these mistakes are going to be painfully obvious. At least we had a good run on the skyscraper front and that won't be taken away from us. "A bird in the hand is better than 2 in the bush." I'll be happy for the next few years with our 10 buildings 600'+ and 23 500'+, but when it's the same entering the 2030's don't say I didn't warn you.
The one building X-factor is that 700' residential near North Station. Everything else over 500' has stalled or outright died on the vine so there's nothing left in the pipeline. Would any of you bet on that getting built?
bigpicture7
Senior Member
- Joined
- May 5, 2016
- Messages
- 3,763
- Reaction score
- 8,700
A mayor is one of many variables at play concurrently. The type of causality being attributed directly to a mayor is unprovable (and, therefore, a willingness to admit one is wrong is an empty gesture). Lock the thread, or rename it "political preferences of forumers" and move it out of this forum.
- Status