Portland Bayside

[TC_zoid]

Yes, I've read and heard that not being able to drink alcohol, smoke (cigs and pot), and use other drugs is the big obstacle for the homeless to moving to shelters and other types of government housing. If you are addicted to a drug--homeless or not--it's not going to cease from someone telling you to stop. If the city determines that these encampments are a safety issue, then they can be dismantled. In theory, they can set up on other public property, like city hall plaza. It would be interesting to see how they handle that in front of the local news. And now I know why the owner of the Trader Joe's building refused to open up the fence for access a few years ago. He saw a potential problem. The Bayside Trail has never been developed for a use, other than a few wayward joggers. I think if the city built simple long tables with sufficient overhangs along the trail, it could become a kind of meandering food market on select days. Not just a farmer's market, but allowing some of the local population's ethnic foods (with proper permits). But now it's simply an eyesore, and one that probably won't be solved until someone in the city finds some courage to act. I won't hold my breath on that.

 

[Cosakita18]

To me, the question is how many of the people in those encampments would even be willing to go into the new shelter if it were larger, and how many would still refuse because they don't want to live within the shelter's rules (i.e., get rid of their prohibited materials).

It's not just that they are hesitant to go into shelters (and there are plenty of legitimate reasons a lot of housing-insecure people would think twice about going into shelters)
But the difficult reality is that a lot of the people living in these camps actively don't want to engage with "the system" in any way for a variety of reasons.... Whether that's shelters or temporary housing or even just designated places to camp.

It makes any kind of organized solution very difficult to actually implement

 

[TC_zoid]

It's not just that they are hesitant to go into shelters (and there are plenty of legitimate reasons a lot of housing-insecure people would think twice about going into shelters)
But the difficult reality is that a lot of the people living in these camps actively don't want to engage with "the system" in any way for a variety of reasons.... Whether that's shelters or temporary housing or even just designated places to camp.

It makes any kind of organized solution very difficult to actually implement

L.A. has an even bigger problem, of course, and their tent city downtown in Hancock Park is not too bad a life for them. The warmer climate is one big reason. I watched an interview with one homeless person there and he had quite a setup. A barbecue area, the freedom to drink the beer he wanted, and a little outdoor motorized water fall sculpture that he connected to city power. He said the city was giving him $84 a week, so that with no housing costs now he was saving a little money!

 

[cneal]

Great essay on NIMBYism and the climate in this month's Mother Jones:
https://www.motherjones.com/environ...housing-development-wind-solar-bill-mckibben/

Putting this is the Bayside thread in memory of Peter Monro's successful crusade to prevent new housing from getting built in Bayside (and having the gall to claim that his entitled cruelty would "Keep Portland Livable")

 

[DesertMaineiac]

The homeless issue seems to be like a snowball rolling downhill as I tend to see more and more stories on the issue and I'd worry encampments will grow as the weather warms. I hope the city is taking this issue seriously and is looking to see how other cities have addressed this issue as it is too large for Portland officials to effectively manage with the Council continuing agenda items on the subject, vacant city positions, and not naming a permanent city manager to provide city direction on the issue. When a city becomes tolerant of related activities and the social services budget is never enough to keep up with the influx the issue has grown too large. The result is growing crime, violence, public health and disease issues, and refuse problems. Hard to have civic pride if you're battling addiction, mental health issues and/or poverty and you see safety in numbers. Seeing scenes in Portland, Maine of what I've seen in Los Angeles and Portland & Eugene, Oregon where encampments are in the highway medians and under bridges, parks, and on city sidewalks is all the evidence you need to see of a problem out of control. People ultimately will vote with their feet.

Do they have similar problems in Omaha, Des Moines, Greenville SC or Boise? How do they address it? I can say I never saw any issues on a recent trip to Boise and they talk about a housing crunch there too. Track the timeline to where this started to become a problem and what was legalized, or what conditions, or lack of regulations, that allowed this to sprout. Can the city pass an ordinance to outlaw camping or overnight stays in public areas and right of ways so the Bayside Trail and other areas don't look like a national park campground on a holiday weekend? Has the city looked at larger temporary facilities such as Sprung structures, similar to what hospitals erected during covid, that can be assembled and disassembled based on need in parking lots without constantly looking for funding for permanent shelters? Clearly the status quo and current policies do not work. Bottom line is strong civic leadership is a key factor. Can we point to that in Portland?

 

[PlantArch]

Yes, I've read and heard that not being able to drink alcohol, smoke (cigs and pot), and use other drugs is the big obstacle for the homeless to moving to shelters and other types of government housing. If you are addicted to a drug--homeless or not--it's not going to cease from someone telling you to stop. If the city determines that these encampments are a safety issue, then they can be dismantled. In theory, they can set up on other public property, like city hall plaza. It would be interesting to see how they handle that in front of the local news. And now I know why the owner of the Trader Joe's building refused to open up the fence for access a few years ago. He saw a potential problem. The Bayside Trail has never been developed for a use, other than a few wayward joggers. I think if the city built simple long tables with sufficient overhangs along the trail, it could become a kind of meandering food market on select days. Not just a farmer's market, but allowing some of the local population's ethnic foods (with proper permits). But now it's simply an eyesore, and one that probably won't be solved until someone in the city finds some courage to act. I won't hold my breath on that.

Mental health issues are the greatest stumbling blocks in the way of trying to house the homeless in shelters. This problem is not going to be fixed any time soon as the mental health system in Maine and the rest of the country is critically flawed. It can literally take years to get into treatment of any kind at this point and many give up and just live (or die) with their issues.

 

[TC_zoid]

"Bottom line is strong civic leadership is a key factor. Can we point to that in Portland?" Exactly. I'm kind of done talking about this until the leadership thing is fixed. But then I suppose the private sector could step in to contribute resources and raise money to fix it from this angle. If you need to wait for Gov to always solve your problems than you will live a reduced life.

 

[mainejeff]

"Bottom line is strong civic leadership is a key factor. Can we point to that in Portland?" Exactly. I'm kind of done talking about this until the leadership thing is fixed. But then I suppose the private sector could step in to contribute resources and raise money to fix it from this angle. If you need to wait for Gov to always solve your problems than you will live a reduced life.

Especially here in Maine.

 

[cneal]

This is a problem everywhere in the U.S., even in Boise, although some cities work harder than others to segregate encampments into places where tourists are less likely to see them:

https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/community/boise/article269766652.html

Simply arresting homeless people and/or throwing away campers' belongings obviously doesn't solve any of the underlying problems; those tactics only make it even harder for homeless people to get back on their feet, and makes the problem way, way more expensive for local governments and the health care system.

Unfortunately, that failed strategy was one that Jon Jennings pursued during his notoriously bad tenure as our City Manager, and now we're paying the price for it, with interest.

 

[um1990]

This is a problem everywhere in the U.S., even in Boise, although some cities work harder than others to segregate encampments into places where tourists are less likely to see them:

https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/community/boise/article269766652.html

Simply arresting homeless people and/or throwing away campers' belongings obviously doesn't solve any of the underlying problems; those tactics only make it even harder for homeless people to get back on their feet, and makes the problem way, way more expensive for local governments and the health care system.

Unfortunately, that failed strategy was one that Jon Jennings pursued during his notoriously bad tenure as our City Manager, and now we're paying the price for it, with interest.

Yeah, Jon Jennings is a core reason for burgeoning homelessness There are definitely plenty of politicians (and their bureaucratic minions) responsible for the deterioration in American cities though.

 

[Portlander]

 

[Cosakita18]

A few new renderings of the Bayside Master Plan:

Looking down Elm St. from Cumberland St.

Looking down Oxford Street towards Elm.

Looking towards Phase 1B

 

[mainejeff]

This development is all about density and infrastructure design. This area needs to be livable! Nice wide sidewalks, planted trees, benches.....hopefully some public areas that don't become homeless magnets. I have high hopes for this.....this is lining up to become the battle of Bayside vs. Foreside.....who can do it better? Realizing the difference in what they are both building.....my money is on Bayside so far.

 

[DanielPWM19]

I like it - just wish they were taller and looked a little less like Eastern Europe. But I won't complain, this development is more likely to happen than Foreside or Portland Square