Portland's vibrant downtown

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TheBostonian

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Losing LL Bean seemed like a big blow to downtown Portland, where it otherwise isn't easy to find practical items like the clothing Bean sells. But Portland never ceases to impress me: Reny's is moving into the adjacent spaces vacated by Bean and Olympia Sports.

http://www.onlinesentinel.com/news/...ean-olympia-space-in-portland_2010-12-20.html

Living a couple years in Portland left me with faith that downtowns can be great despite the huge outward gravity of suburbanization.
 
Did you ever finish up at Muskie in planning? I am finishing up my planning degree there now. I agree about vibrant downtown despite suburbanization. Hopefully it continues here as a trend.
 
I graduated in May of 2009 and returned to MA where I work as a planner now. Looks like our time there didn't overlap. I seriously miss Portland and the Muskie experience.
 
I remember when you were thinking about applying and your comments when you first visited Portland, as well as your questions about where to live (in fact, I think there is a thread on here about it). You must have started planning at Muskie when I started law up the street. I did the joint degree, the planning part of which started in fall 2009. almost done now. Where do you work as a planner? Have you specialized or are you a general town planner? How do you like it?
 
I'd like to hold onto some anonymity in this public forum, since I've expressed very personal opinions here about planning and my job requires some neutrality. But with that said, I've sent you a LinkedIn friend request, so you can see who I am and exactly where I work.

My job is split 50/50 between a very specific specialty and being an open-ended, at-large planner. The community where I work is really a special place, and the department has been investing quite a bit in professional development. So I absolutely love the job.

The hard part of starting my career as a planner was starting my career as a planner. There were months where I couldn't get even a retail job. But I did some internships and went network crazy and finally found some opportunities. I've feel very encouraged too that other members of my Muskie class seem to eventually all be landing jobs.

I was curious about the Law-CPD joint degree before I started at Muskie. What kind of work will you be getting into with that kind of education combo?
 
Yes, of course, I understand. That makes total sense.

Thanks for the linkedin request.

Muskie grads do seem to be landing jobs after the right amount of incubation in the network realm. I myself have been going networking crazy lately. It really is what matters almost as much as the degree itself.

My story is a bit different than the typical Muskie/Law student. Originally, I wanted to be an architect, but wisely decided to follow my girlfriend (now wife) to college at a university which had no such program. Given that September 11 just occurred, I was very into politics etc., so I studied that (like everyone else). Also like everyone else, I went to law school when I didn't know what else to do. In law school, feeling like I had made the biggest academic mistake a person could make, I started to think about Muskie and, at the encouragement of my wife, pursued the joint degree there rather late in the game. I never even knew there was such an option until my second year of law school (I began it in my third and final year of law school (last year), and am now finishing it up.

I now have my own law office, where my practice focuses on land use planning, zoning, environmental issues etc. I do some work for national consumer law firms to pay the bills as a local affiliate (not my preferred practice area), but I am also representing neighborhood groups, citizens suing municipal governments over land use disputes, and just recently landed a position representing a developer. Slow but steady. Ultimately, I think I might like to get into planning somewhere if my student debt will ever allow it.

Thanks for the linked in request.
 
Ah, so now that I know your name, I can put it altogether. You are the student they used for an example in this years "Elements of Plan Making" class. I read your project, on Oakdale, several times for guidance on my own, on Gorham's Corner. Such a small world!
 
Also, one more thing is that, strangely enough, I think we are facebook friends already...I don't remember who sent the request, but I think it was this fall unless I am mistaken.
 
Do you know of others with the joint CPD-Law degree? I don't remember any shooting for it during my time there. Although, there was a student with a JD from elsewhere who was going for his MCPD.

I find the education combo fascinating because it seems that the land use lawyers I know don't have an educational background in planning. They're not really planning lawyers as much as they are lawyers who represent developers through the permitting process.

When I thought about the joint degree, I thought the law part of it could make for a supercharged planner whose legal skills could be a tool for making good planning happen.
 
TheBostonian said:
When I thought about the joint degree, I thought the law part of it could make for a supercharged planner whose legal skills could be a tool for making good planning happen.
Click to expand...

I think the exact same thing. Planning is fascinating, but flawed. It is flawed in the sense that it is implemented through legal channels, but planners aren't lawyers. Law is a tool to make good plans happen. Although I have met a fair number of planners that are well versed in zoning law, not many are familiar with it beyond that. I think there should be more in the planning curriculum focused on law, because it really is such a HUGE part of the whole objective. Maybe three or four classes in law instead of one would be great. But then again, its almost a waste of time because as a planner not licensed as an attorney you wouldn't be able to render legal advice, even if you were an expert. It really gets tricky because you do NOT need a whole law degree to make planning more effective, but that's the only way you are allowed to exercise whatever legal skills you may have.

I don't know any in the joint degree, either, but plenty have asked me about it. The VAST majority of law is SO unrelated to planning that it really is a waste of time to start planning and then finish with the law degree. Much better, I think, is to approach things as I did--start law school, realize it isn't what you thought it would be, and save your wasted time by bringing planning into it to conclude the education in one extra year.

I too knew and know a few lawyers in the MCPD program--all very bright and all looking for more than what the law itself has to offer. I think the planning degree is invaluable as concerns understanding zoning law and related areas. The two are so closely related. I spoke with Doris Goldstein (google her if you are unfamiliar) and she said a planning degree is one thing she always regretted not having. I have heard similar things from other lawyers. Many of the professors I had in law school who were into land use, though, were also members of the planning board, or had studied fields in college that closely align with planning (environmental studies, etc), or were otherwise up to date on current planning theory and topics. Maybe I just got lucky with great professors there (the law school), I don't know. I do know that most of the lawyers I see that are working do NOT have a background in planning, and I am hoping this is something that will differentiate me in the eyes of my clients.

anyway, long and rambling way of saying I agree with you--the law makes for a supercharged planner. The key is getting others to listen to you without thinking you are a Mr. "know it all" (I get that feeling sometimes). This applies in both the legal and planning contexts. I think there should be a law and planning track that does NOT require a full JD. A full JD is a wastem in my opinion, but it is how things have always been done, and the Harvard model is still pursued in the vast majority of schools (three years, socratic method, etc.), even though it is perhaps unnecessary for many lawyers who hope to specialize.
 
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