Red Line Extension to Arlington Heights

That's still a long ways off from heavy rail density though, and when a significantly cheaper option (LRT dinky or better bus service) also exists, it's pretty difficult to justify. It's 3 miles and 6 grade crossings for one station that would (in a perfect world) end up with ridership similar to Orient Heights, or about 4300 people per day.

And I think the size of the vehicles they use on those routes speaks to the demand. There's definitely room for capacity increases there before we need to start thinking about a subway line.
I think we very much agree that expanded bus service to AH is the short term compromise, however, I can't see a world in which it is ever feasible to destroy the bikeway for a light rail line in place of the heavy rail extension. Why would the local politics support a forced transfer? Why would we spend the money on vehicle procurement, trackage, storage, and maintenance on a single use line for approximately five miles when we could spend equal or slightly more to just extend the red line to one of the largest roadways and growing business hubs in the metro? You're being precious about how we spend capital while also presenting an idea that wastes it in the long run. I'm not talking about stopping just in Lexington Center. I'm talking about going to Hartwell Ave, to 128. 11% of Alewife's ridership is people using "The Grid" shuttles offered by the 128 Business Council. Without a forced connection to a bus, how much of our network could be improved by connecting jobs on 128 to downtown through the places where people live? Also, how do you expect transit oriented density to spring up in car dependent places? We built all of these suburbs by extending train and streetcar lines there first and the communities grew around them. Why do it backwards now?

More than that, why would station spacing be radically different from every other line north or south of the CBD? There are four stations in Lexington (whether you choose to infill them later or not): Maple Street, Lexington Center, North Lexington (at Bedford St), and Hartwell Ave (the only non-Historic station because it was a swamp then just like Alewife was). The Orange line extension north was going to add in stations beyond what the commuter rail already has. Now, go back and look at each of those 4 stations, the land around them (Land that has already been rezoned for higher density in 3/4 of those spaces) and compare it to land availability around Orient Heights and explain to me why is that comparison is useful at all? The utility of Orient Heights is boxed in by Belle Isle Marsh, The Chelsea River, and climate change. None of the Lexington stations are hemmed in by that level of geography. Before you come down hard on Maple St, here's the full 2023 zoning map where you can see that Mass Ave and all of its offshoots are already zoned for dual family and even the development north of the recreation area is multi family even though it is zoned for single family.

But you can definitely argue that we should extend the Red Line to Mattapan and Lower Mills, and like it or not the best way to do that goes through Milton. It's the same reason Needham is high on the priority list, not necessarily because they deserve it first, but because it's a requirement to serve West Roxbury and Roslindale.
That's my point though: it's the same argument. Mattapan deserves the red line, Milton arguably does as well but Milton doesn't want density so we build it anyways. Roslindale wants the Orange line and density but West Roxbury and Needham don't, so we build it anyways. Arlington has density and 128 north has commercial density, Lexington is open to densifying, so we build it anyways. There's a housing crisis and a willing partner and you're basically saying, "toss it on the heap." I would rather spend money on places where we are connecting actual opportunities rather than opportunities that are great on the map but are politically a failure.

Here's a controversial example: Electrification of the commuter rail and the North/South Rail link. I am compelled to state that I firmly believe that these two items are the absolute priority of transit funding in Massachusetts. With that said, do we really believe that the majority of communities on or adjacent to the stations are going to utilize the upgrade and alter their zoning, local transit, and movement patterns? Look at the communities that are against the zoning mandate or the ones that complied in bad faith (upzoning already dense areas so that they didn't have to build much)? It's the commuter rail communities by an incredibly large margin. Given that the ridership projections assumed unlimited parking, what do you expect is going to happen in those communities to get riders to the train? Not much. For every Salem and Acton is a North Reading or a Scituate.
 
The 2003 PMT had Alewife-128 and Braintree-Weymouth at the exact same ridership, but Weymouth was half the cost.
Blue Line to Lynn and Salem was the same cost of Alewife-128 but 5x the ridership.

I have a hard time seeing this thing gaining decent traction given the absurd cost of tunneling.
 
The 2003 PMT had Alewife-128 and Braintree-Weymouth at the exact same ridership, but Weymouth was half the cost.
Blue Line to Lynn and Salem was the same cost of Alewife-128 but 5x the ridership.

I have a hard time seeing this thing gaining decent traction given the absurd cost of tunneling.
What's the ROW on Braintree to Weymouth? Yeah, I'm not comparing it to Blue Line to Lynn because that's an absolute no-brainer on who comes first in line.
 
however, I can't see a world in which it is ever feasible to destroy the bikeway for a light rail line in place of the heavy rail extension.
Except you don't need to. The ROW is wide enough to support one light rail track, the existing bikeway, and some strategically placed passing loops.
Why would the local politics support a forced transfer?
The same reason Fall River and New Bedford didn't reject SCR Phase 1 to wait for Phase 2. The cost of a heavy rail line is prohibitively expensive, invasive, and/or unpopular so the choice is either a light rail line or a bus route. If Lexington wants to look between the couch cushions for a few billion they're more than welcome to.
11% of Alewife's ridership is people using "The Grid" shuttles offered by the 128 Business Council.
Those people will see about zero benefit from this extension then. The rough driving times with traffic are the same between Alewife and the 128 Office Parks, and between Hartwell Ave and the office parks. If anything Hartwell Ave might actually take a bit longer since it spends more time in traffic on 95.
Also, how do you expect transit oriented density to spring up in car dependent places? We built all of these suburbs by extending train and streetcar lines there first and the communities grew around them. Why do it backwards now?
We don't need to sprawl out to 128 to get decent TOD. Existing rapid transit stations with good TOD potential include:
  • Alewife
  • Riverside
  • Wellington
  • Oak Grove
  • Wonderland
  • Andrew
  • North Quincy
  • Wollaston
  • Braintree
  • Not existing but the easy infills at Rivers Edge and Morrissey
Let's work on filling those out first before we start sprawling more.
Now, go back and look at each of those 4 stations, the land around them (Land that has already been rezoned for higher density in 3/4 of those spaces) and compare it to land availability around Orient Heights and explain to me why is that comparison is useful at all? The utility of Orient Heights is boxed in by Belle Isle Marsh, The Chelsea River, and climate change
It's a station in a primarily residential area, with mainly multifamily dwellings in the form of triple-deckers, and a small(ish) commercial area located on a major local road. If you'd prefer a station that's not hemmed in by geography you could look at Jackson Square, but that's really not much better (About 5300 daily pax) and that is surround by tower blocks, plus it includes 800 daily bus transfers.
Before you come down hard on Maple St, here's the full 2023 zoning map where you can see that Mass Ave and all of its offshoots are already zoned for dual family and even the development north of the recreation area is multi family even though it is zoned for single family.
Just because the area is zoned for multifamily housing doesn't mean people are going to be thrilled about changes to very low density areas. Zoning isn't a magic density bullet, it's the first step.
128 north has commercial density
Except it doesn't. There's Hanscom, Burlington Mall, and Bedford VA, and that's it. And it really only makes sense to serve one of those directly. All the office density is down by Waltham.
and a willing partner
Have we actually established that Lexington is willing to have either an elevated rail line or a subway built? I don't think we have. They're open to building more housing, and that's nice, but that's not the whole picture.
you're basically saying, "toss it on the heap."
No, I'm saying that we should build transit for purpose, not just extend a subway line because it seems nice and fits well with the notion that inside 128 there should be rapid transit.
I would rather spend money on places where we are connecting actual opportunities
There's no better opportunity than one that isn't hypothetical and already exists. And there's no shortage of those in Greater Boston. Once we exhaust those then we can sprawl more.
 
My head might explode too. Wouldn't an el be more expensive than a cut-and-cover, while also destroying the trail's value as a nice, green linear park?

To be fair I don't think there is any way to do a cut and cover without basically killing all the green on the path in the first place during the construction process. Cut and cover construction is a highly disruptive process too. It'll take decades to infill nicely again.
 
To be fair I don't think there is any way to do a cut and cover without basically killing all the green on the path in the first place during the construction process. Cut and cover construction is a highly disruptive process too. It'll take decades to infill nicely again.
Arguably, you could save more trees with a single column elevated rail line than with a cut-and-cover tunnel. A single column elevated rail has a much narrower construction footprint than cut-and-cover. You'd have to trim quite a few limbs, but less removal of entire trees.
 
Roslindale wants the Orange line and density but West Roxbury and Needham don't, so we build it anyways
A lot of people in West Roxbury want the Orange Line. My parents lived in West Rox back in the 90's and they badly wanted an Orange Line extension.

That being said, I agree that a Red Line extension into Lexington is the ideal endgame for the Red Line, but I definitely understand everyone's skepticism due to Lexington's lack of density.
 
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Except you don't need to. The ROW is wide enough to support one light rail track, the existing bikeway, and some strategically placed passing loops.

The same reason Fall River and New Bedford didn't reject SCR Phase 1 to wait for Phase 2. The cost of a heavy rail line is prohibitively expensive, invasive, and/or unpopular so the choice is either a light rail line or a bus route.
That's not apples to apples. They funded and built it for the commuter rail and then will be changing the line used for the same. It's not the difference between building for one type of rail and then rebuilding for a different one. You're still offering light rail as a cost cutting measure when it is arguably just a waste of dollars. You and I continue to agree that Buses to Arlington Heights remain the preferred short term concept.

Just because the area is zoned for multifamily housing doesn't mean people are going to be thrilled about changes to very low density areas. Zoning isn't a magic density bullet, it's the first step.
You're welcome to read the links I posted. I didn't put them there for fun:
Lexington has seen seven applications for new developments under its MBTA Communities zoning, for a combined total of 960 proposed housing units. The town’s Planning Board has so far approved two of those projects.

“It’s actually a lot more than we expected,” McCabe said of the influx of applications.

When the Planning Board was discussing the rezoning early on, “they did want to find locations that would be developed, that would actually create housing,” she explained. “We just didn’t expect it to be this fast. It took a little while to get applications, but now we’re getting a new application pretty much every couple weeks, so it’s just at a faster rate than we were anticipating.”
We're talking actual units.
We don't need to sprawl out to 128 to get decent TOD. Existing rapid transit stations with good TOD potential include. Once we exhaust those we can sprawl more.
Building transit around village centers is what I would call the opposite of sprawling. Everywhere inside of 128 is going to get denser by degrees. Should Newton stop densifying its villages because its too far from Boston? It's a crisis. We can upzone existing stations and build more rail for more stations at the same time. In fact, they are two separate mechanisms controlled and funded separately and I genuinely have no idea why you've presented them in opposition here. The infill stations, I can understand on some level, but the built stations I do not understand. Local municipalities can and should of course upzone and invite development.

Those people will see about zero benefit from this extension then. The rough driving times with traffic are the same between Alewife and the 128 Office Parks, and between Hartwell Ave and the office parks. If anything Hartwell Ave might actually take a bit longer since it spends more time in traffic on 95.
Except it doesn't. There's Hanscom, Burlington Mall, and Bedford VA, and that's it. And it really only makes sense to serve one of those directly. All the office density is down by Waltham.
Hartwell Ave.PNG


You keep saying this like the section between Route 20 and Route 2 is the only thing that exists so I painted you a helpful map of all the labs and offices you're ignoring in your assessment (I even missed some) including MIT's Lincoln Labs. The Blue circle is the intersection of Hartwell and the Minuteman. You are not wrong that a Hartwell Ave station may be less helpful for jobs south of Totten Pond Road (or even Trapello) as a connection, but most of that space is used already, is conservation land for the reservoirs, or is residential. It's all moving north and that's why I also advocate (here in "Design a Better Boston") for a light rail link from Riverside north to Reading. (Digression: It's where a huge amount of jobs are and people don't take the commuter rail because it's so disconnected from those jobs. Why do you think the Concord rotary needs an overpass when the commuter rail goes through all the local communities on Route 2? Because the high income jobs are along 128). People living in Lexington already work at some of these places; presumably it's part of why they want to live in Lexington. I think it ignores the reality on the ground (and perhaps even disingenuous) to say they would get no benefit from a connection west as well as red line to Cambridge and Boston. That section over by 2A and Burlington isn't going to benefit natives by the connection, but it does connect those areas better to everyone else in the system giving them needed choice in find a living situation by putting more job connections at their fingertips.

It's a station in a primarily residential area, with mainly multifamily dwellings in the form of triple-deckers, and a small(ish) commercial area located on a major local road. If you'd prefer a station that's not hemmed in by geography you could look at Jackson Square, but that's really not much better (About 5300 daily pax) and that is surround by tower blocks, plus it includes 800 daily bus transfers.

It's certainly better. It does have alternate options in its catchment which is not really true for Lexington but it also has growth potential. My follow up here is, with ridership like that (or less, such as when it was built), do we question that there should be a heavy rail stop there? It's even in an expensive cutting.

No, I'm saying that we should build transit for purpose, not just extend a subway line because it seems nice and fits well with the notion that inside 128 there should be rapid transit.
First off, that's bullshit. I'm clearly arguing for jobs access and housing. Don't make it out like I'm trying to connect lines on a map. I get that I can come across as agitated here, but I'm trying to push back in good faith. The actual disagreement we have here is what is the worthwhile investment for this ROW. You think the red line should go to AH and any transit solution beyond that isn't a bus SHOULD be single-track light rail because there is no "there there" (please correct me if my simplification of your arguments is incorrect). I am arguing that we should not spend money on a light rail connection at all when the long term value is to extend the red line wholesale to 128 and even Burlington. It is frivolous to spend money on any other rail in the row if it's not the red line. That is the disagreement. I am making my case as to why I think the red line is not over suited to the conditions on the row by the time this gets funded and built. You have not convinced me that I am wrong and have only furthered my belief that you are arguing this either because you have projects you would like to prioritize and fear that giving this some thought in the larger public discourse takes away from the potential of those other projects getting funded or(and?) you have assumptions about Lexington that are informed by the past (these could both be wrong, I am just letting you know how I'm perceiving your ardent pushback. I have absolutely no skin in this game as I don't commute to or live in Lexington nor do I work or live on 128). Which leads me to:
Have we actually established that Lexington is willing to have either an elevated rail line or a subway built? I don't think we have. They're open to building more housing, and that's nice, but that's not the whole picture.
No, no we have not. But you are running on the negative assumption as evidenced by lines like this
expensive, invasive, and/or unpopular so the choice is either a light rail line or a bus route.
Invasive like we're cutting down trees or invasive such as imposing on the town? Expense as a limit is the only factor we know for sure. A good assumption is that the beloved minuteman would need to be preserved in some way. Everything else is conjecture. Lexington certainly has come a long way from its NIMBY roots and affordability and access are part of their current public discourse. I don't see why these things aren't worth asking in the public space.

There's no better opportunity than one that isn't hypothetical and already exists. And there's no shortage of those in Greater Boston.
Good thing the Northwest Extension was studied and even provisioned for by the state of Massachusetts in the 70s and I didn't just pull it out of a hat then? The tunneling is certainly a new proposition but I have also advocated on this forum that the utility of the row is better served by the train. That position is just likely to run into local politics.
 
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A lot of people in West Roxbury want the Orange Line. My parents lived in West Rox back in the 90's and they badly wanted an Orange Line extension.
Of course, but was that then, and, is that now the majority community desire? My understanding is that it's still not wanted over more frequent commuter rail service.
 
Of course, but was that then, and, is that now the majority community desire? My understanding is that it's still not wanted over more frequent commuter rail service.
Rapid transit is wanted because the only more frequent commuter rail service they can physically get is conversion of the Needham Line to a Forest Hills-Needham urban rail shuttle with forced transfer. Which would give them :15 frequencies, but force the whole ridership to transfer to the Orange Line @ FH to get anywhere. It polled about as well as syphillis when the Rail Vision presented it to the neighborhoods as their 'best' study option.
 
Yeah, I was responding to @393b40 in their pitch to go directly directly to Hanscom with a branch to Burlington. What I failed to make clear (at all) is that I don't think such late branching is worthwhile so what I'm saying is that you can go to Hanscom, Bedford (Maybe, maybe Hanscom to Bedford), or Burlington, but not Hanscom then Burlington. Cue the air travel discussion, so I offered only Bedford or Burlington.
The direct path to Hanscom's terminal would follow more-or-less the former freight spur into the base...which was a loopy journey from Hartwell Ave. along the Shawsheen River and around the airfield's perimeter fence about 2 miles long with some routing challenges on the last half-mile because of the built-up blocks around Chennault St. You'd probably have to do a sizeable-length El to get it to the doorstep because of the number of parking-lot grade crossings. The configuration is very much akin to the still-active Bradley Airport rail spur off the Springfield Line...serpentine doesn't even begin to describe it. Studies for direct Red-to-terminal would probably reach the same conclusions as the Bradley Branch studies: it's not worth doing because a shuttle bus from a Hartwell intermediate station (much like the planned shuttle bus from the new relocated Windsor Locks station) would make better time.

So I think in the end if it's a Burlington-or-Hanscom choice...you choose Burlington with a Hartwell/Route 4 intermediate stop meeting a shuttle bus right when it hooks onto the power line ROW.


Historic Aerials 1972 topo of the Hanscom spur off the Lexington Branch. The soccer field is built on top of the ROW where it crosses Chennault and Forbes St., with the yard at the end of the spur now a parking lot on Barksdale St. It'd need another couple sharp turns and El'd-over grade crossings to get into the terminal. Most of the majority grade-separated portion of ROW north of Chennault to the junction with the Lexington Branch is still visible on Google (though the junction pointed in the wrong direction from Boston and would require bridging over an intersection to get on-alignment for southbound wye leg).
1729350883200.png
 
I wasn’t aware that there was a northbound spur in that vicinity too.
 
I wasn’t aware that there was a northbound spur in that vicinity too.
Just an industrial park siding. It dead-ended before reaching the power line ROW. Unlike the mostly intact Hanscom spur there's no trace of the industrial park siding left because of new building construction.
 
An advocacy group for extending the Red Line to Arlington and beyond, "Extend the Red Line," has been formed in Arlington and is holding its first meeting this week. I haven't heard of such an effort in the last decade or so, so I figured it was worth mentioning.

Mods, I'm unfamiliar with the norms for starting a new thread around here. I didn't see an existing thread, or an obvious one where this belonged. If this belongs someplace else, thanks for moving it there.
 
"The Massachusetts Legislature has passed a bill that repeals a law set in place in 1976 that prohibited the construction of an MBTA station within 75 yards of Arlington Catholic High School, which killed plans that would have extended the MBTA’s Red Line from Alewife to Lexington at Route 128."

 

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