Red Sox Mixed-Use Development | Fenway

HenryAlan

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I’m not a fan of the commercial use for the Lansdowne parcel. That’s a spot for something loud and fun (the building will literally be hit by home run balls!) not more offices or labs.
Yes, that's the one element of this that I don't absolutely love. Landsdowne is kind of a special place in the history of Kenmore/Fenway music culture, and essentially all that remains of something that was once far more significant. Recognizing that much of the current usage has already turned away from that past, I still kind of don't want to see a big landscraper replace the buildings that once housed legendary clubs.

As I said, though, I absolutely love the rest of it and can't begin to get over my excitement about how this will complete an amazing growth era for this neighborhood, completely stitching together Kenmore/BU with Longwood and the Back Bay.
 

Equilibria

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Yes, that's the one element of this that I don't absolutely love. Landsdowne is kind of a special place in the history of Kenmore/Fenway music culture, and essentially all that remains of something that was once far more significant. Recognizing that much of the current usage has already turned away from that past, I still kind of don't want to see a big landscraper replace the buildings that once housed legendary clubs.

As I said, though, I absolutely love the rest of it and can't begin to get over my excitement about how this will complete an amazing growth era for this neighborhood, completely stitching together Kenmore/BU with Longwood and the Back Bay.
FWIW, the first two floors there are retail (so could be entertainment-related) and the Red Sox are building a huge concert venue down the block.

The renders make it look like the upper floors of that building will be able to see over the Monster, so I'd think the Red Sox would want them empty in the evenings and on weekends.
 

JumboBuc

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I wonder what the phasing will look like for this project? I could easily imagine either of these two opposite approaches:
a) Start with the Van Ness and Brookline parcels. These are the most straight forward development projects (there's nothing on those parcels now) and probably the quickest and easiest bang for your buck. The Brookline parcel in particular looks to be the densest of the bunch, and would pretty much be an off-the-shelf commercial block. Building up these two parcels required no demo and will have little impact on the Park.
b) Start with the Jersey parcels, precisely because those are the highest profile / biggest ticket / most impactful on the Fenway experience. These parcels are the "face" of the project (e.g., most of the project renders are of them).

But either way, I gotta think that the Lansdowne parcel would be last.
 

Czervik.Construction

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When I looked at the aerial view, what I like most is that this development connects the new Fenway/Pike parcels which connects Fenway and Kenmore a little more directly. The Pike always felt like a massive gulf the cut off the vibrancy of Kenmore and created a relative sleepy Fenway Park area (on non game days).
Then, in addition to connecting to the Fenway/Pike developments, it connects all of that to all of the development on Boylston over the past 5-10 years. You then have continuous new developments from The Pierce, all of Boylston, through Fenway to the Pike and over to Kenmore. Awesome stuff.

As someone who moved out of Boston when Popeye's Chicken was the last bit of Kenmore and there was nothing until the Landmark Center and Boylston was a dreary stretch of road that looked like a run down Midwest city, this is truly amazing to see.
 

Massachoicetts

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I also hope they leave the Tasty Burger there. It looks so cool and its so unique, and would be like a big neato to the area. Maybe enlarge it or put another diner there in lieu of the parking space? I cant see what is going there from the renders.. but that's something I hope stays.
 

JumboBuc

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I also hope they leave the Tasty Burger there. It looks so cool and its so unique, and would be like a big neato to the area. Maybe enlarge it or put another diner there in lieu of the parking space? I cant see what is going there from the renders.. but that's something I hope stays.
The Tasty Burger parcel is owned by Samuels, while FSG owns the parking lot behind it. So Tasty Burger itself isn't part of the Red Sox redevelopment. (This is also why the samplers for Parcel 12 are right next to Tasty Burger, because that's also a Samuels project.)

Samuels very much works "down the line" on its parcels in the neighborhood. After Fenway Triangle it was the Target building, then the Hojo renovation to the Verb and the building where Saloniki and Sweetgreen are, then The Pierce, then the rehab of the existing Landmark / 401 Park with the addition of Time Out. They're current project in the Fenway is the first lab component of the Landmark / 401 complex. Next up will be the second lab component of Landmark / 401 Park (with a new Star Market at ground floor), then after that will be redevelopment of all the existing Star Market land. After all of that I'd imagine they might turn their sights to the Tasty Burger lot, but Steve Samuels himself has said in interviews how much he loves TB's vibes and he wants to keep it around.
 

shmessy

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Not gonna lie, I was hoping to see some decking over the pike east of Brookline Ave. Still looks great, though. Glad they included the Kenmore flatiron-like building in the render!
And they left the suburban office park Kenmore Square North as a hole in the ground! Bravo to the renderer!
 

curcuas

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The Tasty Burger parcel is owned by Samuels, while FSG owns the parking lot behind it. So Tasty Burger itself isn't part of the Red Sox redevelopment. (This is also why the samplers for Parcel 12 are right next to Tasty Burger, because that's also a Samuels project.)

Samuels very much works "down the line" on its parcels in the neighborhood. After Fenway Triangle it was the Target building, then the Hojo renovation to the Verb and the building where Saloniki and Sweetgreen are, then The Pierce, then the rehab of the existing Landmark / 401 Park with the addition of Time Out. They're current project in the Fenway is the first lab component of the Landmark / 401 complex. Next up will be the second lab component of Landmark / 401 Park (with a new Star Market at ground floor), then after that will be redevelopment of all the existing Star Market land. After all of that I'd imagine they might turn their sights to the Tasty Burger lot, but Steve Samuels himself has said in interviews how much he loves TB's vibes and he wants to keep it around.
Two other options:
- They can redev the Hojo/Verb. That's in the works, no?
- They had permission to build ~12 stories replacing the Saloniki etc building. Did that get traded or is it still there?
 

NoShJFK

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A few points:

First, I can’t imagine them building this and not planning on staying in Fenway permanently - not just for another 10-15 years.

Second, Im in awe of this project though. If it and the other non-related projects come to foruition then wow. That area is going to be tremendous. I can’t think of anything wrong about the layout or design of this project.

Lastly, When I see images like that my mind always goes to mass transit. And it’s too bad that EITHER the BLX South (or NSRL) wasn’t happening simultaneously because a Blue line station being built under one of those buildings would be perfect.
 

Arenacale

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First, I can’t imagine them building this and not planning on staying in Fenway permanently - not just for another 10-15 years.
I don't see any reason why Fenway can't be used indefinitely, if the framework itself is structurally sound. At this point there's more long-term value in Fenway Park as iconic historic stadium than any short-term benefit a new park would have, and if they can keep the amenities nice through periodic upgrades then it should be useable for decades, if not longer.

To bring this back to the topic, the development got another (quick) mention on Field of Schemes, which seems to intone that there's something wrong with the city potentially approving these plans simply because Henry's a billionaire. Which makes no sense to me unless you just hate rich people - I'm failing to see any downside for the city because it won't be using taxpayer money and it's going to be a definitive improvement to a neighborhood that is barely one now.
 

Suffolk 83

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The Red Sox had a long term plan they made years ago when they really started ramping up the renovations- it said the stadium only had a useful life of X number of years (cant remember exactly but it was something like 30-50 years) until the structure couldnt support itself any longer. That was then, I do think with them still renovating in 2021 they might have come to the conclusion its worth it for a costly retrofit of the original structure
 

Equilibria

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I don't see any reason why Fenway can't be used indefinitely, if the framework itself is structurally sound. At this point there's more long-term value in Fenway Park as iconic historic stadium than any short-term benefit a new park would have, and if they can keep the amenities nice through periodic upgrades then it should be useable for decades, if not longer.

To bring this back to the topic, the development got another (quick) mention on Field of Schemes, which seems to intone that there's something wrong with the city potentially approving these plans simply because Henry's a billionaire. Which makes no sense to me unless you just hate rich people - I'm failing to see any downside for the city because it won't be using taxpayer money and it's going to be a definitive improvement to a neighborhood that is barely one now.
That's because DeMause is a slave to his format and has to hate anything to do with sports because it's his brand.

He's also wrong on, like, every point. Jersey Street will remain a public way in this project, though it will be programmed on game days the same way it has been for a decade now. Actually, the project is leaving more acres of public roads than exist today. He also calls the project "skyscrapers", which is a pretty big stretch given that the tallest building will be 300'. Beyond that, while the Red Sox are partially owned by John Henry and are investing in this project, the actual proponent is WS Development, and Fenway Sports Group has more than one shareholder.
 

fatnoah

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I also hope they leave the Tasty Burger there. It looks so cool and its so unique, and would be like a big neato to the area.
It really is such a great spot. I lived in Back Bay near Comm & Fairfield, and this was a go-to spot for me and my son when we were hungry. It was a nice walk, and not too far from the Clemente fields for some running around.
 

stefal

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The Red Sox had a long term plan they made years ago when they really started ramping up the renovations- it said the stadium only had a useful life of X number of years (cant remember exactly but it was something like 30-50 years) until the structure couldnt support itself any longer. That was then, I do think with them still renovating in 2021 they might have come to the conclusion its worth it for a costly retrofit of the original structure
I recall on a tour (in 2007) that the only original structure remaining that hadn't been retrofitted, replaced, updated, etc., was one of the exterior brick walls. That was a tour, though, so large grains of salt to take with it....
 

cjbski

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It really is such a great spot. I lived in Back Bay near Comm & Fairfield, and this was a go-to spot for me and my son when we were hungry. It was a nice walk, and not too far from the Clemente fields for some running around.
UBurger is way better. Tasty Burger's parcel is not long for this world. Too good of a spot to have a parking lot and a one level building.
 

bakgwailo

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UBurger is way better. Tasty Burger's parcel is not long for this world. Too good of a spot to have a parking lot and a one level building.
I recall Samuels explicitly calling out tasty burger and saying it wouldn't be developed (as it added something quirky/unique to the neighborhood). For what it's worth, at least.
 

Suffolk 83

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I recall on a tour (in 2007) that the only original structure remaining that hadn't been retrofitted, replaced, updated, etc., was one of the exterior brick walls. That was a tour, though, so large grains of salt to take with it....
That sounds accurate
 

Suffolk 83

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Think of it like the USS Constitution, which has something less than 5% of the original left after all the rehabilitations.
I'm splitting hairs a bit here I realize but I'm pretty sure everything from behind first base all the way around to behind 3rd base is all original and at some point going to need serious renovations. That doesnt seem like a small feat and one that could displace the Red Sox for a season
 

BronsonShore

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I'm splitting hairs a bit here I realize but I'm pretty sure everything from behind first base all the way around to behind 3rd base is all original and at some point going to need serious renovations. That doesnt seem like a small feat and one that could displace the Red Sox for a season
Even that area of the ballpark is not really original. Two fires, one in the 20s and one in the 30s, destroyed much of the original grandstand. Major renovations in 1934 turned what was almost an entirely wooden structure into one made of brick, steel, and concrete. The renovations were so extensive that the ballpark was referred to as "Fenway Park II" for a time.

More recently, the Sox renovated and waterproofed the concrete seating bowl that you're talking about, and were able to do it over the course of two offseasons.
 

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