Regional Rail (RUR) & North-South Rail Link (NSRL)

Neither the T, nor the federal government, nor the state has committed to SSX. Right now it's just a proposal/pet project from a few people at MassDOT and the Legislature, and there have been basically no substantial updates in around 10 years. If the fact-sheet is to be believed, a major motivation was to increase layover capacity at South Station itself, but with Widett Circle going ahead that would seemingly make that a non-issue. Saying that the T would "rather spend money on SSX" is misleading at best.

If there is one person who WOULD rather do SSX than NSRL, it's very clearly Steven Lynch, and it seems he's pressing on some of the other key stakeholders. Today from the globe:

A South Station expansion? Some are optimistic after visit from Postal Service head.

What would it take to persuade the US Postal Service to move out of the way? We may soon find out now that Postmaster General Louis DeJoy seems ready to play “Let’s Make a Deal.”

DeJoy and his entourage quietly visited Boston to get negotiations going earlier this month, first to meet with Lieutenant Governor Kim Driscoll at the State House. DeJoy and his crew later reconvened in a private meeting over lunch with state Transportation Secretary Monica Tibbits-Nutt, Amtrak chief executive Stephen Gardner, and a number of top aides.

Playing a key role in all of this was congressman Steve Lynch, a longtime proponent of a South Station expansion. He helped make this event happen — and he left the meeting with DeJoy feeling more optimistic than ever that a deal could get done.

[...]

Lynch has been down this track before. If you follow Boston politics, you probably have, too. The South Station saga dates back two decades, to when the dust was still settling from all that Big Dig construction next door.

But the congressman maintains he is more hopeful than ever.

After all, DeJoy wouldn’t come all the way to Boston just to say no, right? Now that Lynch and the Healey administration have DeJoy’s attention, they need to figure out a deal that will get him to say yes.
 
I'm excited more about the development opportunity on the USPS land rather than the SSX expansion specifically. However as @F-Line to Dudley has mentioned multiple times, both SSX and NSRL are needed and not mutually exclusive. A few more stub-end tracks at South Station would be great, and the development potential along the Fort Point channel for waterside activation is super exciting. I hope the deal goes through quickly.
 
I'm excited more about the development opportunity on the USPS land rather than the SSX expansion specifically.
De-coupling the real estate elements from the transportation elements is going to be key to getting a rational valuation for SSX. Too much of the scary (and sandbagged) price tag for the monolithic project was tied up in the real estate redevelopment, the palatial Dot Ave. headhouse that was planned, and unrelated junk like a Harborwalk extension and potential public dock space in the Channel. Those have nothing to do with platforms and trackwork for the capacity expansion. It needs to be broken into pieces so each unrelated part can live on its own budget with its own backers. I'm fine with the USPS redevelopment kick-starting sooner than the 8-years-stalled everything else, so long as the buildings conform to the acreage footprint scoped out by the SSX studies. Let the raw track expansion live within the Rail Vision budget at however many additional tracks ops reform numerically studies out to require (it's not zero, but it might not be all the way to +7 either). Let the monument-building headhouse live within its own budget (or, better yet, don't do it at all or at least for a long time). Let the Harborwalk and anything they're doing to tart up the Channel interface be somebody else's budgetary problem.
 
I'm excited more about the development opportunity on the USPS land rather than the SSX expansion specifically. However as @F-Line to Dudley has mentioned multiple times, both SSX and NSRL are needed and not mutually exclusive. A few more stub-end tracks at South Station would be great, and the development potential along the Fort Point channel for waterside activation is super exciting. I hope the deal goes through quickly.
Maybe SSX could be future proofed by having some temporary stub end tracks at South Station with the option to extend? It may put some pressure on the NSRL moving forward.

But it's not like the "futureproofed" Bowdoin stop ever really put too much pressure on the BL extension outside of the occasional globe article.
 
Maybe SSX could be future proofed by having some temporary stub end tracks at South Station with the option to extend? It may put some pressure on the NSRL moving forward.
NSRL tunnels need to begin much further out than that for the grades to be adequate. The tunnel portals would be around Back Bay and Widett. A future proofed SSX would mean building a deep bore station, and at that point it would be easier to just build the link than make a bunch of stub ended platforms deep underground.

Maybe they could mine the station cavern during SSX? But I'm not sure that makes sense with the studied station location.
 
NSRL tunnels need to begin much further out than that for the grades to be adequate. The tunnel portals would be around Back Bay and Widett. A future proofed SSX would mean building a deep bore station, and at that point it would be easier to just build the link than make a bunch of stub ended platforms deep underground.

Maybe they could mine the station cavern during SSX? But I'm not sure that makes sense with the studied station location.
The station cavern is going to be either 100 ft. underneath Dot Ave. and the Channel (CA/T alignment) or 100 ft. underneath South St. almost a block west of the station (South/Congress alignment). It doesn't touch the footprint of either the existing station or the SSX-expanded station, so there's nothing to provision for.

Provisioning a cavern also isn't going to work unless you're doing the whole thing to Somerville, because the TBM has to have an exit chute or else it's going to be buried down there forever. There's no installment-planning of NSRL. When we build it, we build it all at once...nothing piecemeal.
 
And the NSRL is already future-proofed to some extent; not obstructing the hoped-for northern portals of the tunnel was one of the criteria for locating the GLX maintenance facility.
 
Does anyone have a link to the latest Alternatives with and without SSX, other portals, and if widdett fell through?
2018 NSRL Reassessment Report (this is the Baker tankapalooza effort): https://www.mass.gov/lists/north-south-rail-link-feasibility-reassessment-study-documents
2003 NSRL DEIR Executive Summary: https://www.sierraclub.org/sites/de.../2003-06 NSRL DEIR Major Investment Study.PDF. (Can't find all of the full report...only the Ch. 5 Operations Study.)
South Station Expansion documents (2014 DEIR and 2016 FEIR) including Layover Analysis: https://www.mass.gov/lists/south-station-expansion-documents

Note that the state has closed the eminent domaining of Widett Circle, so that isn't going to fall through. Its proposed budget is now fully de-coupled from SSX.
 

“Having sat on the Transportation Committee, being a party to the debate that goes on between states that we negotiate with: New Jersey has a tunnel they want; Arizona wants to add 500 miles of highway. There are all these competing — Chicago wants to expand their airport — we’re competing for dollars. We sit as a committee and we review the impact. So if we put our project forward and say ‘We want $20 billion for a tunnel so people don’t have to change trains’ — we lose, we lose, we lose,” Lynch said.
I remembered a comment I meant to make three months ago (which I admit seems like it says concerning things about how my brain works), so I'm back to this:

I think it's worth highlighting something subtle in Lynch's remarks: he's not using the tired old "anywhere to anywhere" NSRL mis-messaging; he is actually correctly referring to the core benefit of the NSRL upon which the other benefits are built -- providing a one-seat ride that diverts riders away from the subway.

I'm not saying that his characterization of that benefit is accurate or fair; a better one might be "We want $20 billion for a tunnel that unclogs our subways and highways".

But to me that does suggest that Lynch actually does understand the structural impact of the NSRL, and still thinks that it will be uncompetitive at the federal level. (I'm assuming that he is using a little bit of exaggerated effect to convey how others will interpret the [real] arguments in favor of the NSRL; perhaps that is generous, but I don't really see how you get to the level of understanding that the NSRL diverts riders away from the Orange Line without also understanding the larger systemic effects; hence my assumption he himself understands those effects, but nonetheless believes that the arguments will be "heard" as boiling down to "so people don't have to change trains.")

In general, my opinion remains unchanged: there are better objects for our attention and funding than the NSRL, at least for now, and certainly at least until the T erects its first Regional Rail catenary pole.
 
I think you're giving Lynch way too much credit. He's always been a fairweather rep, ingratiating himself to whatever sentiment is fashionable without having more than skin-deep buy-in to the issues. Right now it's a bear market for federal funding, so he's sandbagging it. He's never sat on the relevant transportation committees that would give him a nutsy-boltsier understanding of the issues much less a direct say in crafting policy, and his statements on transpo issues over 20+ years in office have been all over the map and often very contradictory. I'll say it again: this very long thread started with a linky to him making the roadway decongestion argument for NSRL and quoting a far more accurate-with-inflation price tag that tracks with the Harvard study's re-evaluation. What happened to that? Is there any evidence of applied knowledge from him in the ensuing 20 years? He's just showing his overall uselessness.
 

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