Riverside Development | 333 Grove Street | Newton

Couldnt the majority of the construction traffic be mitigated by having trucks use recreation road to get to and from the site from the north / west?

If I were these eight people fighting against a potential 200 something residents, I would be pushing for a Riverside commuter rail stop and changing Riverside Park from a DCR wasteland to a real recreation area. That's just me though, I favor extortion over prohibition.

This is exactly what they should have done, but the T made only the parking lot available. I've thought for years that the right move would be to extend Recreation Rd. through the park and over the river to connect with Seminary Ave. by running past the office building. The Riverside CR stop has been studied and dismissed by the T in the past (the mainline option, not the DMU stub track), but the development might change the estimates. At this point, I'm more interested in spending money bringing Fairmounted service directly into the current station than messing around on the other side of the river.

I hope that the bike trail connecting Lower Falls directly into Riverside Park (which is basically impossible to access casually on foot - you really have to be exploring) brings the foot traffic necessary to clean it up. The residents of this project might do that as well.
 
I hope that the bike trail connecting Lower Falls directly into Riverside Park (which is basically impossible to access casually on foot - you really have to be exploring) brings the foot traffic necessary to clean it up. The residents of this project might do that as well.

The T planned a Riverside station connecting path on the Lower Falls ROW over those disused 128 rail overpasses. Pitchfork-wielding NIMBY's in the cul-de-sacs by the golf course violently shot it down. Blah-blah-blah "undesireables" blah-blah-blah. It would've linked directly with 16 in Wellesley, which is virtually unwalkable to Riverside or Waban because of the 128 ramps everywhere. And it would've hooked up to the trail on top of the aqueduct that goes all the way to Wellesley Center.

Maybe they can take a second run at this, because it's too useful to pass up and another one of those urban trails that would get commuter utilization like it was its very own transit line. But jeez did that provoke disproportionate histrionics the last time they tried it a couple years ago. I don't think that neighborhood gives a shit about giving itself any access to Riverside station so much as it fancies itself a gated community. If it gets built at all it's got to be strongarmed for the sake of the Riverside development. It will never ever get voluntary cooperation from the abutters.
 
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Fine. Let's just build public transit where people actually want it.
 
The T planned a Riverside station connecting path on the Lower Falls ROW over those disused 128 rail overpasses. Pitchfork-wielding NIMBY's in the cul-de-sacs by the golf course violently shot it down. Blah-blah-blah "undesireables" blah-blah-blah. It would've linked directly with 16 in Wellesley, which is virtually unwalkable to Riverside or Waban because of the 128 ramps everywhere. And it would've hooked up to the trail on top of the aqueduct that goes all the way to Wellesley Center.

Maybe they can take a second run at this, because it's too useful to pass up and another one of those urban trails that would get commuter utilization like it was its very own transit line. But jeez did that provoke disproportionate histrionics the last time they tried it a couple years ago. I don't think that neighborhood gives a shit about giving itself any access to Riverside station so much as it fancies itself a gated community. If it gets built at all it's got to be strongarmed for the sake of the Riverside development. It will never ever get voluntary cooperation from the abutters.

In an attempt to defend the neighborhood were I grew up and lived for 18 years against your charges of being a "gated community" (it isn't and doesn't want to be any more than any other neighborhood does), here's the actual, ongoing story of that path.

First off, it isn't the T that's trying to build it. It's the DCR, who owns the ROW, that wants to build a mixed-use trail between Riverside and Route 16, and it has nothing to do with making Riverside more accessible or creating a "transit-like" piece of infrastructure. DCR sees that ROW as a necessary segment of their recreational path along the Charles River. They hope to one day connect that section to Waltham and Watertown by building additional segments in Auburndale, but this is their first step.

It's not really the case either that they made an attempt to build it and were rebuffed. They proposed it about five years ago and split the neighborhood between the folks who lived directly abutting the tracks (and thus would have the path right behind their yards) and those who lived further away and valued the easier access to both Riverside and, more importantly, the shops on Wellesley side of the river. That section of the path, BTW, was completed about a year ago in conjunction with the CVS and elderly housing on the Grossman's site, bringing many of the greater plan's benefits without disturbing too many families.

The rest of the project has fallen out of the headlines, but that doesn't mean it's over or that it was angrily shouted down. As my parents recall it, the public meeting with the DCR guy basically amounted to him saying "look, it's my land, and I'm going to do this. You can work with me on it or you can get screwed." Predictably, the abutters called him on the only part he left open to them and sued the state over some obscure abandonment law, basically claiming that the state had ceded them the ROW through 50 years of disuse. I believe that lawsuit is still pending on the central segment of the ROW, which is why no construction has occurred beyond Concord St.

I've heard whispers that DCR will complete the connection over the highway and into the neighborhood using the Clearwater Rd. extension (clearly visible on Google but not in real life) to give Lower Falls bike/ped Riverside access without building behind people's houses. That's a decent stopgap for a project which really is an incremental thing.

There's no "second run" or "strongarming" needed here. What's needed is to make the case, patiently and consistently, that Lower Falls existing on a dumbbell of commercial development with one end in Wellesley and the other at Riverside is good for property values and convenient for residents. Not only does it allow easier access to run errands and eat out, but it would connect directly to Wellesley's municipal system of scenic paths as well as a (hopefully) rehabilitated Riverside Park and its system of trails. It would be a beautiful walk and a huge boost to the neighborhood.

The bridge is already quite popular (and gorgeous at all times of year). Half the neighborhood already supports the rest of the project. Folks who back up to the path need convincing that they'll end up seeing it as an amenity rather than as an invasion of their privacy, and that takes time. The momentum's on DCR's side, now, though. It will ultimately happen.

By the way, the woods through which the path would run (and Riverside Park to which it would connect) are constantly occupied by the homeless and host unsavory activities in their current, neglected state. I walked the tracks many times as a child and saw the evidence myself. It's not the people who ride the train that folks in Lower Falls are worried about having access to their back gates.
 
Thanks for the post, Equilibria. I know some folks in that neighborhood and it's interesting to hear the perspective.

I've heard whispers that DCR will complete the connection over the highway and into the neighborhood using the Clearwater Rd. extension (clearly visible on Google but not in real life) to give Lower Falls bike/ped Riverside access without building behind people's houses.

By Clearwater Rd. extension, do you mean the old ROW behind Clearwater? Because of course, that ROW is indeed right behind people's houses. I'm not meaning to take the "side" of the homeowners vs. the path here, to the extent they're in opposition; I'm just trying to picture how it will work. Are there any maps of this?

Edit: now I think I see it -- the little stub that looks like a driveway where the road changes names. That is indeed a no-brainer.
 
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By Clearwater Rd. extension, do you mean the old ROW behind Clearwater? Because of course, that ROW is indeed right behind people's houses. I'm not meaning to take the "side" of the homeowners vs. the path here, to the extent they're in opposition; I'm just trying to picture how it will work. Are there any maps of this?

You already found it yourself, I know, but I spent a little time making this before I knew that... It was fun.

https://mapsengine.google.com/map/edit?mid=zNzlE9Ge1-ME.ksOxejWkqTIc
 
Equilibria, are you sure about your two "existing DCR path" alignments?

When I was out there in May 2012, the old Riverside station underpass on the Worcester Line had "no trespassing" signs up everywhere, though the graffiti makes it clear they aren't very well followed. The footbridge was blocked off too, though I believe that's being rebuilt.
 
Equilibria, are you sure about your two "existing DCR path" alignments?

When I was out there in May 2012, the old Riverside station underpass on the Worcester Line had "no trespassing" signs up everywhere, though the graffiti makes it clear they aren't very well followed. The footbridge was blocked off too, though I believe that's being rebuilt.

I'm surprised to hear about the underpass... I've walked it in the last couple of years and I've always thought the city valued keeping it open so Auburndale could access the park. I guess too many teenagers were doing drugs in there or something. It could certainly be fixed up and re-opened at some point.

The rest of those paths and bridges will be accurate in a year or so. I believe there was a 4-bridge vision for Lower Falls were the railroad bridge (now a path), cart bridge, and those 2 pedestrian bridges would all be replaced. The first 2 are complete, while the 2 DCR bridges are in progress. Actually, the southern pedestrian bridge was closed for quite some time before construction because it was unsound.

As for the graffiti, just because the paths are incredibly neglected doesn't mean they don't exist. The point of this project is to open up the system and bring it up to snuff. I didn't even include the overlook they could do on that cliff peninsula in the highway, BTW. There's a path off the railroad bridge that goes up there, and man was it a stupid place to go as a kid... of course we did it. Put in some fences and railings, and I bet there's great views of the city to be had up there (I was to terrified to enjoy them before).
 
Fine. Let's just build public transit where people actually want it.

Are you INSANE? Think of the children!!!

South shore doesn't want commuter rail? We built it. And we added A TUNNEL. :cool:

Somerville residents have wanted the Green Line for over 50 years? We delay that for decades, and even when it is finalized, we continue to delay it. :rolleyes:

Easton, Freetown, etc don't want commuter rail? We'll try to ram the project through. And we'll add FREE FIRE STATIONS and FIVE MILE LONG TESTLES and MORE TUNNELS. :cool:

Lynn residents desperately pleading for Blue Line for over 50 years? Fuck 'em. :rolleyes:
 
Is this thing dead? I've been meaning to post on this since I work at Riverside Center.
 
Please direct all inquiries about silent projects to the stickies thread "what's happening with project x?"
 
The day may be coming when state law mandates cities and towns to do projects such as this–at this scale. The process that brings the needed change is unclear.
 
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I like but they def need to cut the office space down and do more housing.
Given how far out it is, I think they would have a very hard time getting corporate tenants now.

And if they want to charge megabucks for the housing Indigo is highly recommended.
 
Just curious, who are the new owners? I haven't seen anything posted anywhere about that. They would have had to sell their leasing rights since Normandy didn't own the land
 
I like but they def need to cut the office space down and do more housing.
Given how far out it is, I think they would have a very hard time getting corporate tenants now.

And if they want to charge megabucks for the housing Indigo is highly recommended.

Contrary to popular belief, not all companies want to go into Boston/Cambridge. The 128 office market is booming and space is scare. This is right off 128 and at the end of the green line for reverse commuters. Offices make a ton of sense at this location and they do not severely drain city resources as the daily occupants are mostly in and out while adding commercial tax revenue to Newton's base.
 
New owners = bigger proposal. Nothing like this will get approved, but the conversation can now restart.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1cy1SR20hrdpdDijIuAyAJgIcOYc9A58R/view?usp=sharing

Why wouldn't it get approved, it looks like it borders a golf course, a major road and train yards (the end of the Green Line?). Those townhomes are freaking gorgeous, the whole development looks gorgeous. I know it's Newton but what possible excuse could the city have against this except the whole, it's too big, too much traffic, but what about the schools. And I'm serious when I ask this. Just what are the politics involved here?
 
I was actually being somewhat tongue in cheek...I mean, in this location, which seems perfect, I don't understand how the town officials could not see the property tax/economic/housing benefits of this for their own residents and push back on the usual excuses for not building.
 
Why wouldn't it get approved, it looks like it borders a golf course, a major road and train yards (the end of the Green Line?). Those townhomes are freaking gorgeous, the whole development looks gorgeous. I know it's Newton but what possible excuse could the city have against this except the whole, it's too big, too much traffic, but what about the schools. And I'm serious when I ask this. Just what are the politics involved here?

The schools are, in fact, an issue here. The neighborhood elementary school - Williams - is Newton's smallest and is currently at capacity. The next-nearest school, Angier, is newly rebuilt but without added capacity. Newton has added capacity at another new elementary school, but if there's a lot of new kids (not a bad thing, IMO) they may have to redistrict to accommodate them.

Of course, the City knew all of that when they developed plans for school construction, and chose to ignore the potential issue. The last developer had to promise to strictly limit apartments bigger than 1BR in order to prevent families with children from moving onto the site. Townhomes, obviously, violate that (discriminatory and wrongheaded) principle.

What makes this complicated is that the prior developer had actually won city approval with a very, very different proposal. Not only was it smaller, but the changes to Grove St. and the highway ramps looked entirely different from this. It was also uglier - typical Alewife/Waltham apartment/office stuff. By contrast, the concept here is way, way more attractive. I hope they can scale it down a little and make it happen, while keeping some of the monumentality they've achieved in these faux factories.
 

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