Riverside Heavy Rail

[b-line200]

A few people on this and other sub-forums have suggested converting the D branch of the green line to heavy rail. As a frequent rider of the D branch, I can see how that right of way is appropriate for heavy rail. However, I have a few questions regarding that kind of project:
1.) Clearly fare control would have to be enacted for all stations around the line. That would be a major project, but entirely possible, especially since most of the stations have limited entrances and exits. However, would pedestrian bridges have to be built at the stations? Currently people cross at track level, and the presence of a third rail would obviously eliminate those pedestrian paths. I know that the Blue Line has overhead wires for much of the length of the line, so that could make it safe to cross the tracks, but the platforms are quite low on the green line. Are low floor heavy rail cars plausible?
2.) The D branch happens to have two major repair yards for green line trolleys (@ Riverside and Reservoir). Would it be possible to gauge the tracks in such a way that Green line trolleys could run on it in order to access the repair shops (without making stops, of course)?
3.) Once the heavy rail cars reach Kenmore Square, where would they go? Running them through the existing tunnel while continuing to have light rail running through defeats the purpose of new heavy rail, yet a brand new tunnel for the entire length would be expensive and would never get funding allocated. Does it make sense to have the light rail trains turn around at Kenmore Square and Copley, where riders can transfer to the new heavy rail, thus leaving the Central Subway open to heavy rail?
In a Utopian, car-free Boston, trains on the B, C, and revived A line could even run along Boylston street to Copley or further, providing commuters with better access.
Thoughts?

 

[datadyne007]

3.) Once the heavy rail cars reach Kenmore Square, where would they go? Running them through the existing tunnel while continuing to have light rail running through defeats the purpose of new heavy rail, yet a brand new tunnel for the entire length would be expensive and would never get funding allocated. Does it make sense to have the light rail trains turn around at Kenmore Square and Copley, where riders can transfer to the new heavy rail, thus leaving the Central Subway open to heavy rail?
In a Utopian, car-free Boston, trains on the B, C, and revived A line could even run along Boylston street to Copley or further, providing commuters with better access.

Most of the proposals for heavy rail on the D-line call for it to be part of the Blue Line extension from Charles/MGH running under Beacon St to Kenmore Sq.

Here are Van's proposals for routing:

You can see that a Huntington Ave via Park St branch is also considered via Stuart St to eventually connect into Brookline Village like the E-line was planned to. I really like this because it kills two birds with one stone. The E-line was supposed to be underground with stations like Symphony at NEU, MFA, LMA, etc.

 

[b-line200]

That makes a lot of sense in relieving the crowded Central Subway, which is simply too small. I suppose you could even route trolleys to Brookline Village and to Forest Hills from wherever the new blue line branch picks up.
But in terms of the yards at Riverside and Reservoir, is it conceivable to route trolleys along that corridor? It is all, of course, in the perspective that this would only happen if all of the projects providing mass transit to areas that have none (i.e. Indigo Line) were finished.

 

[NJBostonFan]

My idea for Riverside heavy rail, as always, involves extending the E branch down Huntington Avenue in a tunnel, where it would make a connection to the D branch. As for the line from Prudential to North Station, I envision dropping the heavy rail tracks underneath the existing Green Line stations at Copley, Arlington, and Boylston, similar to what van proposes. I'll explain how things will work at Boylston later. Doing this would allow the existing light rail lines to be connected to the existing Silver Line tunnel, providing light rail between the Seaport District with the Back Bay, where it would connect with the existing C and B branches of the Green Line. At the Seaport, the light rail can leave the existing Silver Line route on the streets, like a tramway, stimulating development in the area.

 

[NJBostonFan]

A few people on this and other sub-forums have suggested converting the D branch of the green line to heavy rail. As a frequent rider of the D branch, I can see how that right of way is appropriate for heavy rail. However, I have a few questions regarding that kind of project:
1.) Clearly fare control would have to be enacted for all stations around the line. That would be a major project, but entirely possible, especially since most of the stations have limited entrances and exits. However, would pedestrian bridges have to be built at the stations? Currently people cross at track level, and the presence of a third rail would obviously eliminate those pedestrian paths. I know that the Blue Line has overhead wires for much of the length of the line, so that could make it safe to cross the tracks, but the platforms are quite low on the green line. Are low floor heavy rail cars plausible?
2.) The D branch happens to have two major repair yards for green line trolleys (@ Riverside and Reservoir). Would it be possible to gauge the tracks in such a way that Green line trolleys could run on it in order to access the repair shops (without making stops, of course)?
3.) Once the heavy rail cars reach Kenmore Square, where would they go? Running them through the existing tunnel while continuing to have light rail running through defeats the purpose of new heavy rail, yet a brand new tunnel for the entire length would be expensive and would never get funding allocated. Does it make sense to have the light rail trains turn around at Kenmore Square and Copley, where riders can transfer to the new heavy rail, thus leaving the Central Subway open to heavy rail?
In a Utopian, car-free Boston, trains on the B, C, and revived A line could even run along Boylston street to Copley or further, providing commuters with better access.
Thoughts?

Perhaps congestion pricing can be implemented! That would help establish more tramways.

 

[whighlander]

Perhaps congestion pricing can be implemented! That would help establish more tramways.

NJ and others -- the topic of D Green to heavy rail is quite old

Back in the 1970's a David Wilson and columnist for the Globe proposed it
-- with the routing down the Esplanade from Charles and then cutting through the Fens to join the D Line to Riverside after Kenmore or perhaps under Kenmore

The rest of the stations would either be raised platform or otherwise relocated and / or rebuilt

The advantage of his routing is cut and cover construction without massive traffic disruption

I think that a good case could me made for two tunnels under Comm Ave from Arlington to Kenmore under -- these could be built as cut and cover with only one lane disrupted at a time in each direction using the Com Ave Mall for access -- however, this routing needs to connect to Charles / MGH by a bored tunnel down Charles St and then under the Public Garden

None of these ideas for extending the Blue Line or converting the D Line to heavy rail are likely anytime soon -- much more likely is some expansion of the Silver Line in the SPID possibly connected to the expansion of the BCRC and the building of the Seaport Square development

 

[vanshnookenraggen]

Pedestrian crossings: Yes there would have to be bridges built (or sub-passageways) since it would be very unsafe for people to cross the tracks.

Heavy rail vs Light rail: If you've ever been to San Francisco you've seen how their trolleys switch between high platform and street service with a flip of a switch (the stairs raise to create a flat platform to walk on). This is a great idea and one that could be implemented to allow light rail cars to traverse the Blue Line tunnels (which were at one time trolley tunnels)

But here is the real questions, why? The D line works very well as light rail (in fact it was one of the first true light rail projects in the country as the Green Line was originally built for street cars and the concept of "Light Rail" didn't come along until decades later). The issue with the Green Line has always been capacity in the Central Subway. Until you address this (which I do on my site) then no matter what you do to the branches it won't change much.

Upgrading the stations along the D line to allow for fare gates would be a good move to speed operations but I wonder if the cost would even be worth it.

I am firm in believing that we need a Stuart St subway to take pressure off of the Boylston St tunnel. The Huntington Ave subway was supposed to continue under Stuart St and connect to the Central Subway through the abandoned tunnels under Tremont. This is still very possible and would be the best first step.

IF that was completed then there would be a more feasible way to upgrade the D line to heavy rail. Before the Orange Line tunnel under Washington St was built the elevated rail cars ran along the outside tracks of the Green Line's Central Subway with wooden risers built to allow both heavy rail and street cars (which run along the inside tracks) to operate. Something similar could, theoretically, be done today. But honestly the cost would be ridiculous for an almost non-increase in service.

 

[choo]

I would like to see the blue line extended to charles then go under storrow drive. remove storrow, use and extend the cut and cover tunnel meet at kenmore, below the green line, coming up at fenway. this would relieve congestion in the central subway, provide a 1 train trip from the north shore to back bay. faster airport service.

Above storrow, I think it can be narrowed from its current free highway structure. build more houses on the alley side of beacon above the tracks and you have great new spots on the esplanade, no more footbridges.

I think its possible to remove storrow

 

[vanshnookenraggen]

A subway along what is now Storrow Dr was proposed back in the day but they decided to just extend the Green Line along Boylston St instead. The subway would have run from Kenmore Sq to Park St as a bypass around the Back Bay and there was to be a loop at Park St (the subway would have been on the same level as the Red Line).

 

[Kahta]

NJ and others -- the topic of D Green to heavy rail is quite old

Back in the 1970's a David Wilson and columnist for the Globe proposed it
-- with the routing down the Esplanade from Charles and then cutting through the Fens to join the D Line to Riverside after Kenmore or perhaps under Kenmore

The rest of the stations would either be raised platform or otherwise relocated and / or rebuilt

The advantage of his routing is cut and cover construction without massive traffic disruption

I think that a good case could me made for two tunnels under Comm Ave from Arlington to Kenmore under -- these could be built as cut and cover with only one lane disrupted at a time in each direction using the Com Ave Mall for access -- however, this routing needs to connect to Charles / MGH by a bored tunnel down Charles St and then under the Public Garden

None of these ideas for extending the Blue Line or converting the D Line to heavy rail are likely anytime soon -- much more likely is some expansion of the Silver Line in the SPID possibly connected to the expansion of the BCRC and the building of the Seaport Square development

If you can give me some specifics to search in the Boston Globe archive, for I'll gladly post from my Boston.com account.

 

[Shepard]

Other possibility: OL branch between Back Bay and Mass Ave/Symphony takes over the E branch, tunnel continuing to Brookline Village and onwards to Riverside.

 

[BostonUrbEx]

I usually imagine combining the E and the D (new tunnel between Symphony and Brookline Village) with a split after Newton Center to Riverside and Needham Center. On the other end, the tunnel would go up Stuart or St James after Prudential, a turn north at Park Plaza (under the end of Columbus), cut and cover the Common on the diagonal pathway from Charles&Boylston to Park&Tremont. Bore out below the existing Green Line from Park St to Haymarket, then continue up underneath North Washington, under the harbor briefly, shooting up underneath Warren St and then Main St in Charlestown and ending at Sullivan Square. And the final phase would be to eventually lengthen that to make its way to Broadway in Everett, running under or above that until the Malden line.