Rose Kennedy Greenway

For $122 million, or $10 million an acre, Houston got ripped off. If Massachusetts had spent $122 million on the Greenway and produced Discovery Green, the howls on this board would be deafening. It only speaks to the sterility of destinations in Houston that Discovery Green would be a draw to suburbanites.

http://www.discoverygreen.com/features/
 
This says it all posted in the GLOBE

Two parks: One quiet, one vibrantBy Andrew Ryan, Globe StaffPrev 10 of 16 Next
Built atop the Big Dig as part of a federal highway project, the Greenway's $40 million cost did not include some crucial amenities. The conservancy hopes to add temporary shade and more seating by next spring, but the improvements remain in the planning stages.

The Mayor and BRA don't want SHADED buildings being BUILT.
 
The problem is that most of us here are a minority. Having attended countless community meetings across Greater Boston on behalf of countless developers, the people who come out the loudest are the people who don't want anything, anywhere. No matter what. Menino is simply a facilitator of democracy, rather than a leader of it.


"Every government is a parliament of whores. The trouble is, in a democracy, the whores are us." - P.J. O'Rourke
 
In a city I used to live in. Fridays were "international food night" at a park. An empty plaza would transform from 4-10pm on fridays as a bunch of booths set up selling all kinds of food. On one end, chilean, argentine, japanese, chinese, lebanese, mexican, peruvian, angolan, and arabic food. In the middle, grills with corn, meat and sandwiches. And at the other end, fruit and vegetable stands. It was a destination, and always packed. Even in the winter it was full, as people bought hot chocolate or quent?o (hot red wine) to go with corn on the cob.

On the greenway, such a concept could work together with the food market.


In DC, friday afternoons (4-8pm) transformed the empty sculpture garden. It would get packed as people listened to live jazz (different every week) and would drink pitchers of beer and sangria. Pictures in my DC thread in the general forum.


Make the greenway a destination. Its easy.


Oh, and evergreen trees. WHY ARE THERE STILL NO PINE TREES!?!?
 
See I don't even see the need or impetus for the Greenway to be a destination...why should it be?

This is a relatively small scrap of disjointed land...and this city has enough destinations as is....there is no need to treat this silly 'park' like it's supposed to be the Main Street for some hick town.

I guess I am in the boat that is just happy to not have a massive motorway clogging up that portion of the city. If they can add new and interesting things to the Greenway...fine...I'll be glad...but I'm not going to treat it like it is or should be something defining for our city.
 
Last edited:
pelhamhall said:
The problem is that most of us here are a minority... the people who come out the loudest are the people who don't want anything, anywhere.
Click to expand...

People who come out the loudest are not necessarily the majority. People who come out the loudest are merely the loudest. If democracy rewards the vocal minority, then there's no reason that the minority on this board can't be louder.

In any case, how is it democracy if people who own exclusive harborside residences block the best interests of the city's development?

At the conservancy?s annual meeting Sept. 1, a small group of residents from East India Row complained about the noise from a developer-sponsored event that included a lunchtime concert with an oldies group.
Click to expand...

It's so cute that they think the Central Artery came down so that they could have a bigger, quieter back yard. Wait, why is it that they think this? Oh right: because they keep getting away with thinking it, since nobody opposes this profoundly hypocritical nimbyism. Can you blame them?

Up, people, and louder.
 
I guess I am in the boat that is just happy to not have a massive motorway clogging up that portion of the city. If they can add new and interesting things to the Greenway...fine...I'll be glad...but I'm not going to treat it like it is or should be something defining for our city.
Click to expand...

Well said Bubbybu. However, there are some pretty simple changes that can (should have been) incorporated into the Greenway. First among them (borrowing from Justin7):
State Street crossing, gone. High Street crossing, gone. Pearl Street crossing, gone. Narrow the rest of the cross streets to two lanes, and most importantly, narrow the streets along each side to one lane each.
Click to expand...
 
Padre Mike said:
Sure, the Greenway is not very active, but look at the competition in a city that is fair compact and hardly the size of Houston: The Common, the Public Gardens, Comm. Ave. Mall, Copley Sq., Quincy Mkt., the Waterfront park, the Holocaust Memorial garden, Haymarket, Hanover St., the HarborWalk, the Freedom Trail, Post Office Sq., the Esplanade, the city itself, all within 15 minutes walking distance from the Greenway. There are just so many people to fill up all of these public spaces in order to make them appear "vibrant" with activity 24/7. Given the design of the Greenway, we're just going to have to wait until residential and business development in the general area increases to the point of producing warm bodies who will use the area to it's greatest advantage.
Click to expand...
Agreed. So what's the point of the Greenway ?
 
Greenway needs slow (8mph), frequent (5 trains per hour) rail transport, so you can enjoy the Waterfront (or jump on and off) at streetcar speeds and headways. Anything else will leave it as a white elephant.
 
stellarfun said:
For $122 million, or $10 million an acre, Houston got ripped off. If Massachusetts had spent $122 million on the Greenway and produced Discovery Green, the howls on this board would be deafening. It only speaks to the sterility of destinations in Houston that Discovery Green would be a draw to suburbanites.

http://www.discoverygreen.com/features/
Click to expand...

Ok as much as this forum enjoys mocking other cities, you guys need to wake up and give credit where credit is due. For $122 million, this doesn't show that Houston got ripped off, it shows that Houston is much more committed than Boston in planning for the good of the city. Maybe it is a draw to suburbanites. But guess what, it doesn't matter. The fact remains, the park is much more successful than the RFK. By saying what you said earlier means that the RFK is bad enough that it can't even draw suburbanites. Like you said, we would be complaining about the cost but look at it this way, Houston may have spent more but got a successful park. Boston skimmed the cost and got a half done park. Which one is better?
 
ablarc said:
Agreed. So what's the point of the Greenway ?
Click to expand...

To pacify the suburban visitors to the city need for grassy banality while ignoring the resident urban citizens' need for dwellings, density, and destinations. Much like most of major planning and redevelopment projects in the city in the past half century, the overall parti has been to suburbanize Boston.
 
ablarc said:
Greenway needs slow (8mph), frequent (5 trains per hour) rail transport, so you can enjoy the Waterfront (or jump on and off) at streetcar speeds and headways. Anything else will leave it as a white elephant.
Click to expand...

It needs a tram that can connect N. and S. Station. Make it like SF and have the tram take one of the lanes on both side of the Greenway. The only thing i dislike from this is the catenary wires that will be needed to be suspended over the rout which kind of cause a clutter.
 
KentXie said:
The only thing i dislike from this is the catenary wires that will be needed to be suspended over the rout which kind of cause a clutter.
Click to expand...
That doesn't have to be. Both New York and Washington did without these for over a half century. Power came from a continuous slot between the two rails. Ergo: no overhead wires.
And we're talking about 19th Century technology !
 
For such a short route, it's probable that a battery powered train could be used that regenerated at each station while stopped there to pickup/discharge passengers.
 
ablarc said:
That doesn't have to be. Both New York and Washington did without these for over a half century. Power came from a continuous slot between the two rails. Ergo: no overhead wires.
And we're talking about 19th Century technology !
Click to expand...

I dont think digging would be the best idea at this location
 
KentXie said:
Ok as much as this forum enjoys mocking other cities, you guys need to wake up and give credit where credit is due. For $122 million, this doesn't show that Houston got ripped off, it shows that Houston is much more committed than Boston in planning for the good of the city. Maybe it is a draw to suburbanites. But guess what, it doesn't matter. The fact remains, the park is much more successful than the RFK. By saying what you said earlier means that the RFK is bad enough that it can't even draw suburbanites. Like you said, we would be complaining about the cost but look at it this way, Houston may have spent more but got a successful park. Boston skimmed the cost and got a half done park. Which one is better?
Click to expand...
Discovery Green in Houston is owned and operated by a non-profit. Of the $125 million cost, the land cost $57 million, the garage cost $21 million, park features cost $39 million, art cost $8 million. The city kicked in for the land and the garage. The park is across the street from the convention center. and two short blocks from the Toyota Center (the Boston Gahdin of Houston). (So maybe instead of Waterside Place, there should be a 'destination' park across the street from the BCEC.)

The fact that Discovery Green is a destination park speaks really only to the dearth of parks in downtown Houston and its surrounds.

Below is really what else there is within several miles radius of downtown Houston.

The result of a nationwide design competition, Buffalo Bayou Sesquicentennial Park has become an urban oasis in the heart of Houston?s downtown Theater District. Serving as the park?s gateway, the two-acre Phase I site, completed in 1989, includes a cascading fountain, gatehouse, and octagonal pavilion adjacent to the Wortham Theater. The 8.2-acre Phase II section of the park, which opened in the 1998, features the following elements:
  • The Common
    A gently sloping 1.25-acre lawn flanked by a walkway and stately trees. Be sure to check out artist Dean Ruck?s historic photographic display, located in the balustrade railings overlooking Buffalo Bayou.
  • Allen H. Carruth Promenade
    Shaded by large cypress trees and enclosed by an historic balustrade overlook wall, the 24-foot walkway features five of the massive park pillars, created by architects TeamHou and artist Mel Chin.
  • Preston Avenue Bridge
    Designed as a pedestrian link to the bayou?s east and west banks, the Preston Avenue Bridge is lined with wide sidewalks, and replicas of the historic lighting that once adorned this early bayou crossing. Two park pillars can be found on each side of the bridge.
  • The Garden Club of Houston Garden
    Located on the western bank of Sesquicentennial Park, you will find this natural sweeping grassy slope the perfect spot for an afternoon picnic. The site, which has been designated a Texas Wildscape by the Texas Parks & Wildlife Department, contains extensive native plantings, unique stonework, and natural water pools.
  • George Bush Monument
    The George Bush Monument, a tribute to the 41st American president, was unveiled to the public in December of 2004, as a new addition to Sesquicentennial Park. A public green space, the park is open to the public 365 days a year. There is no entry fee.
    The exhibit features an eight-foot, 650-pound bronze sculpture of the former president and a semicircular wall consisting of four bas-reliefs that depict President Bush in various stages of his life. The park is well-lighted and includes benches and paved footpaths.
    Visitors approaching on foot will find the stately green space in Sesquicentennial Park, on the west bank of Buffalo Bayou across from Wortham Center in downtown Houston. Motorists can park at metered spaces near the park entry at Bagby and Franklin streets.
  • The Josephine B. and Anthony Charles Muller Overlook
    Park your bike at this overlook site, situated on a bayou curve near the Prairie and Bagby Street Bridge. It is the perfect spot to take in the spectacular view of Houston?s downtown buildings.
  • Seven Wonders
    Rising dramatically above Buffalo Bayou?s Sesquicentennial Park are the seven 70-ft-tall pillars ?Seven Wonders.?. Flanking the park?s Promenade and Preston Avenue Bridge, the columns highlight Houston?s history through the themes of agriculture, energy, manufacturing, medicine, philanthropy, technology and transportation. Each column is constructed of 150 individual children?s drawings, etched in stainless steel plate.
Click to expand...
Map of Sesquicentennial, note much of it was built atop highways.

SesQMap_Mar06.jpg


houston-19.jpg


waterfall3.jpg


display.php
 
I'm still hoping someone will take my rollercoaster idea seriously.
 
Charlie_mta said:
Stellarfun: "Map of Sesquicentennial, note much of it was built atop highways."

Actually, the elevated freeway is on top of the park. On the park map you posted, the white solid and dashed lines indicate the tangle of massive elevated freeway and ramps over the park, not tunnels.

http://www.bing.com/maps/default.aspx?v=2&FORM=LMLTCP&cp=29.761597~-95.372352&style=a&lvl=17&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&phx=0&phy=0&phscl=1&encType=1
Click to expand...
Charlie, thanks for the correction, and it was a major one.

Discovery Green (convention Center in the distance)
ZW2L6901_8.jpg


Discovery Green, from roof of the convention center. (Looks to be a rendering, the ponds are too blue).
Hou-Discovery_Green1.jpg


Marketplace
img_8184.jpg


Lawn
img_8188.jpg


Concert
the-fab-40-at-discovery-green.3852620.36.jpg


Another concert
Hou-DG-Lake-House.jpg


Ice rink (winter)
Hou-DG-Ice_Rink.jpg

__________________

Sesquicentennial Park (showing Charlie was right!)
Hou-Sequicentennial-Park.jpg
 
Last edited:
that is almost entirely hideous save for the eating venue and the skate rink
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top