Rose Kennedy Greenway

The point that Ron and others are trying to make is that Menino did not and does not have any control over the design, execution or maintenance of the Greenway and no amount of random capitalization is going to change that.
 
Menino had two options upon completion of CAT/Tunnel, and probably still has two options.

1. Have the City take responsibility for the Greenway and instruct the BRA to incorporate the Greenway into some type of comprehensive plan.
2. Jettison responsibility for the the Greenway and treat it as an element of the public realm independent of its abutting projects.

The City has elected to jettison responsibility for the Greenway as well as other parks, sidewalks, plazas ? even streetlamps, streetlights and signal lights. The responsibility has fallen on private groups, BIDs, developers in exchange for development rights, etc.

IMO, the fate of the Greenway has been in the Mayor's hands. I don't agree with everything said about Menino in this thread, but think there is a point worth making.
 
At the time Menino took a pass on the city taking control of the Greenway, he was cutting money for parks elsewhere in the city.

As has been discussed in this thread before, the city of Boston is cheap, comparatively, when it comes to its parks, which is why you have the state and private non-profits so involved in stewardship.

Much as some may dislike or disapprove of the Conservancy, if the city of Boston was presently maintaining the Greenway, it probably would really look like a scruffy median strip. And the city of Boston's low priority for parks antedates Menino, so he is simply continuing the tradition.
 
At the time Menino took a pass on the city taking control of the Greenway, he was cutting money for parks elsewhere in the city.

As has been discussed in this thread before, the city of Boston is cheap, comparatively, when it comes to its parks, which is why you have the state and private non-profits so involved in stewardship.

Much as some may dislike or disapprove of the Conservancy, if the city of Boston was presently maintaining the Greenway, it probably would really look like a scruffy median strip. And the city of Boston's low priority for parks antedates Menino, so he is simply continuing the tradition.

Then selloff the parcels to the private sector. It is that simple. The Greenway will end up better in the long-run with much more potential controlled by the private sectors. It's not that I don't think that the Conservancy is not a good idea if the city of Boston or the state was running huge tax surplus's I just believe it's a tax burden at this point in history like everything else.

The problem is the city & the state want control everything but they don't want to sacrifice their power so they continue to create ways to generate extra taxes. For example

BID, Greenway Tax, Taxing Non-profits & Hospitals, raising realestate taxes. The problem is all these costs end up being paid by us in the end. Especially the colleges and Hospitals which will just raise tutition and healthcare fees.

Honestly the suckers that invested in BID. What is that actually doing to improve downtown. Downtown is a DUMP
 
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Then selloff the parcels to the private sector. It is that simple. The Greenway will end up better in the long-run with much more potential controlled by the private sectors. It's not that I don't think that the Conservancy is not a good idea if the city of Boston or the state was running huge tax surplus's I just believe it's a tax burden at this point in history like everything else.

The problem is the city & the state want control everything but they don't want to sacrifice their power so they continue to create ways to generate extra taxes. For example

BID, Greenway Tax, Taxing Non-profits & Hospitals, raising realestate taxes. The problem is all these costs end up being paid by us in the end. Especially the colleges and Hospitals which will just raise tutition and healthcare fees.

Honestly the suckers that invested in BID. What is that actually doing to improve downtown. Downtown is a DUMP

The private sector is not interested in those parcels. The parcels were given away for free to non-profits, and the non-profits couldn't even finance a building that could economically be built on free land. And I notice the rush to build on the parcels near Causeway St. that were designed to be built on. (The Avenir was really built on the old Green Line right-of-way.)

The BID is a private sector tax, as I believe the Greenway tax would be.
 
The private sector is not interested in those parcels. The parcels were given away for free to non-profits, and the non-profits couldn't even finance a building that could economically be built on free land. And I notice the rush to build on the parcels near Causeway St. that were designed to be built on. (The Avenir was really built on the old Green Line right-of-way.)

The BID is a private sector tax, as I believe the Greenway tax would be.


The only Non-profits that could handle this type of bill would be Harvard and some of the institutions. Most non-profits depend on grants, donations, state funds. They don't know how to generate money.

Developers Chiofaro & Raymond could probably fund half the Greenway if the city would compromise on the heights of their developments. This will solve half the problems for the Taxpayers and the Greenway.

BID is a private sector tax.......recommend by the city because the city won't use the taxes they already collect to do the basic services for downtown. Sounds like they are getting double taxed.
 
The only Non-profits that could handle this type of bill would be Harvard and some of the institutions. Most non-profits depend on grants, donations, state funds. They don't know how to generate money.

Developers Chiofaro & Raymond could probably fund half the Greenway if the city would compromise on the heights of their developments. This will solve half the problems for the Taxpayers and the Greenway.

BID is a private sector tax.......recommend by the city because the city won't use the taxes they already collect to do the basic services for downtown. Sounds like they are getting double taxed.

Huh? Of all the universities, Harvard is the LEAST positioned to do this. They can't even make progress on the Allston project for another two years, as detailed to the press yesterday.
 
Huh? Of all the universities, Harvard is the LEAST positioned to do this. They can't even make progress on the Allston project for another two years, as detailed to the press yesterday.

There is a difference between developing a project that makes economic sense or what Harvard is worth or has in their endowment. Believe me if Harvard wanted to maintain the Greenway they would not have a problem funding 3 or 4million a year to pay for the Greenway.

Allston project probably does not make economic sense. See Vornado and Filenes project. Vornado has plenty of capital to build the building but the timing or economics for them doesn't make sense. They probably want to see rents rising before they start looking for financing.

I'm not sure if you understand development but when you build something you don't want it to become a MONEY PIT instead of a CASH machine.
 
There is a difference between developing a project that makes economic sense or what Harvard is worth or has in their endowment. Believe me if Harvard wanted to maintain the Greenway they would not have a problem funding 3 or 4million a year to pay for the Greenway.

Allston project probably does not make economic sense. See Vornado and Filenes project. Vornado has plenty of capital to build the building but the timing or economics for them doesn't make sense. They probably want to see rents rising before they start looking for financing.

I'm not sure if you understand development but when you build something you don't want it to become a MONEY PIT instead of a CASH machine.
Are you attending the Menino School of Mumbling?

What Harvard wants to do in Allston is unrelated to Vornado and Filene's.

A lot of universities build buildings that are money pits. Harvard is no different. What return on investment do you think Harvard will get spending $350 million rebuilding the Fogg Art Museum?

Harvard already spends a lot of money maintaining a 'park' in Boston. Which is another money pit. They probably just spent $50 million on a new building there.
ArnoldArboretum_WeldHill.jpg
 
Are you attending the Menino School of Mumbling?

What Harvard wants to do in Allston is unrelated to Vornado and Filene's.

A lot of universities build buildings that are money pits. Harvard is no different. What return on investment do you think Harvard will get spending $350 million rebuilding the Fogg Art Museum?

Harvard already spends a lot of money maintaining a 'park' in Boston. Which is another money pit. They probably just spent $50 million on a new building there.
ArnoldArboretum_WeldHill.jpg

I was not trying to compare Harvard with Vornado they are in two different industries. I was trying to compare when somebody builds a project and what makes economic sense to that project. Every situation is different when building a project, Materials, Equity, Vision, Labor Costs, location. Development is just not 1+1=2. There so many x-factors to developing. lower rents, rising rents, supply & demand. That's all I'm saying.

Harvard is much different than Vornado. Vornado is in the business of making money. Harvard is learning institution that depends on their very powerful network who has dontated billions of dollars a year to their institution.

Harvard took a big hit in the markets in 2008 and they are recouping their cashflow to maintain the Unversity. My whole point is Harvard could afford to maintain the Greenway if they wanted to focus their resources and energy on that project.

Also one of Harvard's Alumni might want them to build Allston project and dontate 500 Million to them in a day. That is how powerful Harvard has become but I'm sure their CFO has to look at the cashflow to maintain their real estate & operating costs overtime.

"Are you attending the Menino School of Mumbling?"
I will admit I'm not the brightest bulb, But please don't compare me to a political hack that has no purpose in life but to rip off the taxpayers to stay in power his whole life. I actually work hard for a living. I found this insulting.
 
If you don't want to be compared to the mayor, don't make statements like "Allston project probably does not make economic sense. See Vornado and Filenes project."
 
If you don't want to be compared to the mayor, don't make statements like "Allston project probably does not make economic sense. See Vornado and Filenes project."

Stellar just read the entire blog, Every project is different, Every development is different, Investors with deep pockets can completely change an outcome to a development especially if it is VERY LONG-TERM investing.

Every developer, corporation, Non-profits, investors have different agendas.

We'll comparing my blogs to the Mayor is fine since you are responding to them.
 
This is a funny article.

Downtown,North End
Critics question plan for Greenway carousel

( Jeremy C. Fox for Boston.com)

Some would prefer to see the Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy Greenway Conservancy maintain the current seasonal carousel near the new Boston Harbor Islands Pavilion.


The latest announcement about plans for a permanent, custom-made carousel on the much-scrutinized Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy Greenway has raised a variety of pointed questions from area residents and carousel enthusiasts.

Their concerns range from the project’s rising price tag, to the cost of a ride, from the choice of expensive designers from Utile Inc. and Reed Hilderbrand, to the decision to build a new carousel with varied figures made of fiberglass rather than reuse a historic one with wooden figures.

Nancy Brennan, executive director of the Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy Greenway Conservancy, said in a recent interview at the conservancy’s headquarters that she doesn't understand what all the fuss is about.

“A carousel is something that is so simple. It makes people happy,” Brennan said. “And we have … civic-minded people who have stepped up and put some non-public money down to do this great thing. And why shouldn’t it be so nice that we can all be proud of it?”

But Roland Hopkins, a native of Duxbury and former Boston resident who now edits the California-based Carousel News & Trader, took issue with many elements of the conservancy’s plan. Hopkins said the planners hadn’t consulted any carousel experts he’s spoken to and had never seriously considered acquiring an antique machine appropriate to the historic nature of Boston.

Hopkins believes the conservancy imposed the idea of unusual animals such as lobsters and butterflies on children, who he believes prefer the traditional galloping horses. He also said the conservancy’s contention that fiberglass creatures were more durable than wooden ones was ill-informed.

“It’s really a glorified mall carousel. There’s no history to it,” Hopkins said.

Bette Largent, president of the National Carousel Association, said an antique machine isn’t necessarily better than a new one, but she cautioned that a new carousel will need repairs as frequently as a historic one.

“Just to say, ‘I’m going to buy a new one because it’s not going to need repairs,’ that’s a fallacy,” she said. “To me that’s not a good and reasonable excuse to buy a new one when you can have a historic one.”

Brennan said the conservancy had consulted experts and considered using an antique carousel, that their planners had gotten input from many people in the industry.

“We talked actually to 52 other carousel operators, notably Prospect Park and the Boston Common, the Detroit Zoo, the Hudson River Park, the Battery Park Carousel, proponents that are working on a very modern carousel that will be … closer to $10 million,” she said. “I was not on the phone personally, but we talked to the leading carousel fabricators, the operators themselves that have been engaged in carousel operations for years or decades, carousel sculptors, Disneyworld.”

Brennan said that the idea for unconventional figures based on local animals came from the children at four city schools where the conservancy sought design ideas, and that the choice of materials was dictated by their research and the year-round placement of the carousel on the greenway.

“And we are very satisfied,” she said, “that the approach that we’re taking ensures durability and very cost-effective maintenance.”

Charlestown resident Diane Valle said the projected $2.9 million would be better spent maintaining and improving the Greenway’s gardens. Valle was chairwoman of the Greenway Gardens project of the Massachusetts Horticultural Society that designed and planted the three Dewey Square parcels and maintained those parcels until the conservancy took custodianship from the society.

“That’s an extraordinary amount of money for something that in any other community would never cost that amount of money,” Valle said. “I just find it mind-boggling, because I’m looking at the whole Greenway. Two-point-nine million dollars could make this like the Boston Public Garden, where people would come from all over the world to be there.”

And Matt Conti, a 17-year North End resident who has written critically of the plan on his blog, NorthEndWaterfront.com, said he doesn’t see why the conservancy needs to spend so much on a new carousel when it currently has a profitable arrangement leasing space to a carousel owner and sharing the revenues.

(Under the current contract, the conservancy charges the carousel owner $1,000 per month and receives 25 percent of ticket sales.)

“So they’ll do this whole project, and what will be the end benefit? You’ll have a slightly better carousel,” Conti said. “And I think that’s a shame given the other options and what could be done with this money.”

Conti also said he's heard from neighborhood parents who are frustrated with the ride's ticket price. They consider $3 too high for frequent use, though many children will ask for a ride each time they pass the carousel — as often as twice a day for some.

Brennan stressed that the $2.9 million price tag given at the most recent public meeting is a cautious estimate and includes money designated for unforeseen contingencies. She said the conservancy would have more accurate figures after they received bids from carousel mechanism manufacturers.

A rough budget provided to Boston.com by the conservancy shows an estimated total of $2.95 million: $1.3 million for site work and landscaping on the entire northern portion of the lot; $1 million for the construction of the custom-designed carousel, including winter enclosure, lighting, music, railing, and a ticket booth; $325,000 for design, from concept to construction documents; $100,000 for project management; and $225,000 for contingencies.

Figures provided by the conservancy for comparable projects showed similar or greater costs for the construction of a new carousel, irrespective of landscaping and other costs. The numbers ranged from $750,000 for a carousel at the Children’s Zoo in Saginaw, Mich., to $2.5 million for the carousel and pavilion building at Pier 62 of New York City’s Hudson River Park.

Brennan said those who believe the carousel will be only a little better at a much greater expense should keep an open mind.

“They should just be patient and wait until this is put in place, and I think they’ll see a world of difference,” she said.

The carousel project grew out of the interest of a generous donor who has pledged $1.6 million to support the project, Brennan said, and doesn’t prevent the conservancy from pursuing other projects with funding from other donors.

“That’s the way philanthropy works,” she said. “You can’t get mad at one donor for doing something wonderful just because there’s a laundry list of important things that will make the park great. You just do that and then you go find another person, and then you go find another person.”

Brennan said the conservancy had heard the requests of the community to make carousel rides more affordable and now offers discounts on bulk ticket purchases as a result. While individual tickets are $3, a book of 10 tickets is available at $25. She also said the conservancy hoped in the future to find donors who would sponsor free rides for groups from schools or other organizations.

Perhaps the most passionate opponent of the carousel plan is Shirley Kressel, an activist and longtime critic of the Greenway Conservancy. Kressel said that if the conservancy has the ability to raise almost $3 million in private funds it has no right to further financial support from the state, and she’s offended that so much money will be spent on what she deems a frivolous project during hard economic times.

“Man, you would never know from [the conservancy] that we’re having a government crisis, that people are hungry, that people are out of work, that people need services,” Kressel said. “They are really just something like living on their own little planet.”

Kressel contends that the conservancy was created with the expectation that it would be self-supporting after receiving financial support from the state during an initial startup period scheduled to end in 2012. Legislation introduced in January by State Representative Aaron Michlewitz would extend state support of the parks through 2017, though it would cap the maximum amount of support at a lower level.

“What people should care about is that this outfit took control on a written agreement … with the state that after they took responsibility they would be entirely self-sufficient on private money,” Kressel said. “That was the premise, and that was the only reason that they are even there.”

Conservancy spokesman Tom Palmer forcefully rebutted Kressel’s claims, saying that in an early brainstorming period, a privately funded organization was one of many ideas discussed, but the conservancy was founded with the understanding that state support would be renewed after the startup period.

Susan Elsbree, director of communications for the Boston Redevelopment Authority, which represented the city in those negotiations, agreed with Palmer’s recollection. “It was always contemplated that the state would have a significant role,” Elsbree said.

Email Jeremy C. Fox at jeremycfox@gmail.com.

http://www.boston.com/yourtown/news..._plan_for_gree.html?p1=HP_Well_YourTown_links
 
We've already got a carousel. Could we instead spend that money on a Ferris wheel, so people can get a nice view of the city and the harbor? (London's is quite popular.)
 
A roller coaster going through the giant arch would also be cool.
 
"Hopkins believes the conservancy imposed the idea of unusual animals such as lobsters and butterflies on children, who he believes prefer the traditional galloping horses."

Toby's top ten suggested rides:

1) The Invisible Man for Marti Waltz and the anti-shadow crowd.
2) An ostrich for Ned and Neimanmarcuswatch.
3) The Seven Dwarfs for the designers of the "South Boston Waterfront".
4) A gopher for Vornado.
5) A chicken for the BRA.
6) A weasle for every DTX property owner.
7) A zebra for former House Speakers.
8) A goat for Luongo.
9) A chameleon for Mitt.
10) An electric chair for Whitey.
 
I'M BACK

BOSTON IS BACK!!

The Hub is once again becoming the unmistakable HUB of everything that matters

Contrary to you HAACs (Prize for the first one to figure the acronym's meaning) I think Fan Pier will be great -- Caveat (of course I like the intersection of Main & Vasser in Cambridge)

More later

Oh almost forgot -- time (pun?) for a Grand Sun Dial on the Greenway -- a really clever one designed using the latest materials and state of the art calculations

But I do like the idea of a nice Ferris Wheel in place of one of those stupid museum proposals or the even stupider Y

And of course the Sometimes open sometimes closed -- but always roofed (sometimes glass sometimes shaded) Public Market to replace the 3rd world behind the Millennium Bostonian Hotel
 

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