DudeUrSistersHot
Banned
- Joined
- May 25, 2006
- Messages
- 315
- Reaction score
- 0
Can we stop the ad hominem attacks please? It seems ironic to me how much more mature a 17 year old can be than a (to my knowledge) much older person.
Rose Kennedy Greenway
- Thread starter callahan
- Start date
Lurker
Senior Member
- Joined
- Jun 13, 2006
- Messages
- 2,362
- Reaction score
- 0
Scott,
if you ever did project management on a union job you'd know that every single one of them has enough job training and experience to do the job right, but often intentionally doesn't in order to drag in more money over the course of a project. They know the rules and game the system for every dime they can get rather than focusing on the quality of their work. I guarantee when the books are gone through that a lot of the fees for labor and materials billed will be revealed to have instead gone directly into someones pocket.
Every for profit union (non profit unions are a completely different story and you SHOULD support them) out there acts like a cartel to extort more money based on limiting the pool of skilled labor or outright causing sabotage to your project if they don't get the contract. They are fixing the market to benefit themselves at the cost of everyone else. If you a are non union specialist in some areas the locals will make damn sure you can't work unless you pay them off by paying dues. Union leadership screws everyone and then vilifies anyone who questions their policies by claiming they are against the working man. They are no better than a crooked 'miracle granting' televangelist, ambulance chasing lawyer, or a political race baiter.
if you ever did project management on a union job you'd know that every single one of them has enough job training and experience to do the job right, but often intentionally doesn't in order to drag in more money over the course of a project. They know the rules and game the system for every dime they can get rather than focusing on the quality of their work. I guarantee when the books are gone through that a lot of the fees for labor and materials billed will be revealed to have instead gone directly into someones pocket.
Every for profit union (non profit unions are a completely different story and you SHOULD support them) out there acts like a cartel to extort more money based on limiting the pool of skilled labor or outright causing sabotage to your project if they don't get the contract. They are fixing the market to benefit themselves at the cost of everyone else. If you a are non union specialist in some areas the locals will make damn sure you can't work unless you pay them off by paying dues. Union leadership screws everyone and then vilifies anyone who questions their policies by claiming they are against the working man. They are no better than a crooked 'miracle granting' televangelist, ambulance chasing lawyer, or a political race baiter.
Scott
Senior Member
- Joined
- May 25, 2006
- Messages
- 1,027
- Reaction score
- 460
Thank you for that interesting bit of opinion designed to enlighten me. I agreed with a few bits but you lost me at the end. Truly this exchange of ideas is what discussion forums are for.
"non union specialist " ...you mean a scab?
It is the engineers and the politicians that are the villains here not the working man. Could you give me a real example (not an opinion) of a "for profit" union, I've never heard of such thing.
"non union specialist " ...you mean a scab?
It is the engineers and the politicians that are the villains here not the working man. Could you give me a real example (not an opinion) of a "for profit" union, I've never heard of such thing.
DudeUrSistersHot
Banned
- Joined
- May 25, 2006
- Messages
- 315
- Reaction score
- 0
Scott said:
My interpretation of what he's saying is that for-profit unions encompass, for example, the AFL-CIO, SEIU, etc - the union for the "working" man. They're out to make money and bilk every cent they can out of everyone else and the middle class especially while accomplishing as little work as possible. Non-profit unions would include, for example, credit unions, where the union isn't out to make a profit or take money from people, but to help people by providing cheaper services or better services to its members.
A non union specialist would be any specialist who is not in a union...
The "work"ers and the unions are the ones who are ultimately responsible for the vast majority of the shoddy workmanship that occurs in public construction.
bosdevelopment
Active Member
- Joined
- May 26, 2006
- Messages
- 727
- Reaction score
- 2
Scott said:
Gay.
briv
Senior Member
- Joined
- May 25, 2006
- Messages
- 2,083
- Reaction score
- 3
Guys, the petty, childish, bickering has to stop. Now. I dont want to be a goddam babysitter, but I think the bullshit is turning many others off and excluding a more worthwhile discourse from taking place here.
I know you all have better things to say than this. Lets start acting like grownups again, huh? Please dont make me start editing threads. I really, really dont want to.
I know you all have better things to say than this. Lets start acting like grownups again, huh? Please dont make me start editing threads. I really, really dont want to.
DudeUrSistersHot
Banned
- Joined
- May 25, 2006
- Messages
- 315
- Reaction score
- 0
Admin said:
I agree. Scott, can you respond to my points substantiatively?
Lurker
Senior Member
- Joined
- Jun 13, 2006
- Messages
- 2,362
- Reaction score
- 0
Scott, some sectors of labor regionally and certain companies are dominated by unions (Large parts of California, what was Filenes, UPS, etc.), to the point that to work at the company or in the area a person is forced to join the union or pay fees to the union even if they aren't a member. There is also the problem of intimidation, sabotage, and interference with subcontractors or suppliers if a union bid is declined for a non union company.
Non profit unions are different because they tend to either be quality assurance groups or ad hoc alliances to take on an issue that all the tradespeople take seriously, such as the issues the cleaners wanted with better scheduling and raises with years of experience. They exist to solve a specific problem or uphold a standard rather than directly enrich select members of the leadership.
In Massachusetts a lot of vote buying and outright extortion is done through unions. Many projects that are mysteriously fast tracked, delayed, or blocked is due to this. It's also why some nice little $25-35,000 landscaping jobs are costing taxpayers $100,000 a pop even when the GC can't do the job at the scheduled time and is going to delay starting work for months. A very large part of what's going on the Greenway has been this garbage.
Honestly, every park that has been approved should have been open by now with the only unfinished parts being the development parcels. Construction on each of the parks shouldn't take more than a month given that the land is cleared, flat, has road access, and is pretty much an additive operation at this point.
Non profit unions are different because they tend to either be quality assurance groups or ad hoc alliances to take on an issue that all the tradespeople take seriously, such as the issues the cleaners wanted with better scheduling and raises with years of experience. They exist to solve a specific problem or uphold a standard rather than directly enrich select members of the leadership.
In Massachusetts a lot of vote buying and outright extortion is done through unions. Many projects that are mysteriously fast tracked, delayed, or blocked is due to this. It's also why some nice little $25-35,000 landscaping jobs are costing taxpayers $100,000 a pop even when the GC can't do the job at the scheduled time and is going to delay starting work for months. A very large part of what's going on the Greenway has been this garbage.
Honestly, every park that has been approved should have been open by now with the only unfinished parts being the development parcels. Construction on each of the parks shouldn't take more than a month given that the land is cleared, flat, has road access, and is pretty much an additive operation at this point.
Scott
Senior Member
- Joined
- May 25, 2006
- Messages
- 1,027
- Reaction score
- 460
There is no such thing as a "for-profit" union and you cannot give me a real life example of one, opinions are not facts. The unions do this and that, but what evidence do you give but damning stories we are just supposed to take at your word.
Union political activities are often advocating labor reform and workplace safety, efforts that management are always trying to thwart to save money. We also fight for issues like the minimum wage and gay marriage because it is the right thing to do. How many companies do things because they are the right thing to do? I almost pissed myself laughing the other day when our vice president, a big strapping old-time Irishman gave me a marriage equality sticker.
I don't care what the right-wingers say I support my union, I earn my money and have long before some on this board where even alive and have the scars to prove it.
Many a manager like the Big Digs own Jim Kerasiotes has tried to blame the big bad union bosses for their own short comings. He even had a hatchet on his desk because he got his jollys firing and intimidating innocent people. Is there any doubt why the unions have been at odds with these people?
Besides most scab shops are from out of state and we should be putting our people who will spend the money here to work first.
Union political activities are often advocating labor reform and workplace safety, efforts that management are always trying to thwart to save money. We also fight for issues like the minimum wage and gay marriage because it is the right thing to do. How many companies do things because they are the right thing to do? I almost pissed myself laughing the other day when our vice president, a big strapping old-time Irishman gave me a marriage equality sticker.
I don't care what the right-wingers say I support my union, I earn my money and have long before some on this board where even alive and have the scars to prove it.
Many a manager like the Big Digs own Jim Kerasiotes has tried to blame the big bad union bosses for their own short comings. He even had a hatchet on his desk because he got his jollys firing and intimidating innocent people. Is there any doubt why the unions have been at odds with these people?
Besides most scab shops are from out of state and we should be putting our people who will spend the money here to work first.
kz1000ps
Senior Member
- Joined
- May 28, 2006
- Messages
- 8,802
- Reaction score
- 10,056
Admin said:
Bingo!
While I tend to agree with Scott more than Dude, I'm really getting tired of the predictability in responses from both sides. Free thought is allowed and nobody thus far deserves to be banned BUT, something's gotta give.
Scott
Senior Member
- Joined
- May 25, 2006
- Messages
- 1,027
- Reaction score
- 460
Gee thanks.
I have posted on these Boston forums for years. I was the second person after Briv to register on this board and convinced others to follow me. I advocated for it because the old one had no moderator and some jerks couldn't control their nasty opinions.
Do you think it is bickering or the fact that if you aren't a white native who speaks perfect English that you will be personally attacked here? Or if you are from Dorchester you are a criminal and a deadbeat? Instead of maturely discussing homelessness issues people take sick pleasure in calling them bums and nobody says boo to them about it.
If that is the norm here then there is no wonder people don't post and shame on the person who allows it to go on.
I have posted on these Boston forums for years. I was the second person after Briv to register on this board and convinced others to follow me. I advocated for it because the old one had no moderator and some jerks couldn't control their nasty opinions.
Do you think it is bickering or the fact that if you aren't a white native who speaks perfect English that you will be personally attacked here? Or if you are from Dorchester you are a criminal and a deadbeat? Instead of maturely discussing homelessness issues people take sick pleasure in calling them bums and nobody says boo to them about it.
If that is the norm here then there is no wonder people don't post and shame on the person who allows it to go on.
Lurker
Senior Member
- Joined
- Jun 13, 2006
- Messages
- 2,362
- Reaction score
- 0
I take offense to this statement considering I am a former citizen of the USSR, my skin isn't white, I don't speak perfect English, due to my accent and the way I still think in my native language, and I happen to live in Dorchester.
bosdevelopment
Active Member
- Joined
- May 26, 2006
- Messages
- 727
- Reaction score
- 2
Lurker said:
DAH in Soviet RuSsia, car drives you!
I never thought I'd say this, but let's get back on topic here.
whighlander
Senior Member
- Joined
- Aug 14, 2006
- Messages
- 7,812
- Reaction score
- 647
Parks, Bungling, Unions
I've been here before as a lurker
Today, I registered and am posting for the first time
I've spent a fair amount of time traveling around EU {especially UK, France and Poland}, some in Asia {mostly Singapore, Taiwan, China, Korea} some in US {mostly Texas, NYC, Philadelphia, Minneapolis, Chicago, DC, Atlanta, Denver, Charlotte, LA, SF, New Orleans} and Canada {Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal, Calgary, Vancouver, Halifax}
Boston is by no means the most nor the least efficient at accomplishing things of a public nature. Nor is Boston the best or least efficient in accomplishing things of a private nature.
Some of it has to do with politics, some with history, some with topography, geology, climate
However, one really insidious aspect of Boston is the excesses introduced by special deals:
1) police details
2) union project agreements
3) Conservation Law foundation and other non-representatives making arrangements for "us"
4) politically arranged favors of all types
Unfortunately the Big Dig and Greenway has all of the above and in an abundance
The best solution would have been to build the surface road as a boulevard with a small green tree-lined median strip and wide sidewalks and then sell the rest to developers to stitch back together the city that was ripped apart {literally in the case of a couple of wharf buildings for road construction dating back to the twenties and of course the Big Tear-down for the Expressway in the 1950's
}
That isn't going to happen. The next best solution is to build the basic Greenway and let future decades gradually fill the blank space with structures, formal gardens, etc. -- much as what happened with the common and the Public Garden
If we need to build anything public at this time its -- A public market hall
1) a grand mostly glass and metal tent ? essentially a roof mounted on massive granite piers for linkage to the Granite-era
2) a structure reminiscent of the original Quincy market in shape ? but taller and wider
3) ideally located where the miserable New England Aquarium Garage is currently located
4) freely open to all with services available {water, heat, cooling, electricity, telecom, roll-up walls} for a fee
5) with payment and reservations available through an website {like Zipcar for a building}
6) that will get the 3rd world squalor of Haymarket under control
7) and allow local farmers to sell their produce in the summer and early fall and then thousands of pumpkins around Halloween, Christmas trees in December}
8) a place for impromptu public lectures, performances day or evening {roll up roof covering for shade in the day}, {lighting for night use}
9) a place for sheltering the pedestrian walking the cold and windswept and rainy or freezing rainy Greenway in November, December, January, February, March, April
10) a place to shelter the weary pedestrian from the baking and steamy heat of July and August
11) replace the parking spaces with underground parking
Anyway -- hope to hear comments and have a chance to make some of my own from time to time
8)
I've been here before as a lurker
Today, I registered and am posting for the first time
I've spent a fair amount of time traveling around EU {especially UK, France and Poland}, some in Asia {mostly Singapore, Taiwan, China, Korea} some in US {mostly Texas, NYC, Philadelphia, Minneapolis, Chicago, DC, Atlanta, Denver, Charlotte, LA, SF, New Orleans} and Canada {Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal, Calgary, Vancouver, Halifax}
Boston is by no means the most nor the least efficient at accomplishing things of a public nature. Nor is Boston the best or least efficient in accomplishing things of a private nature.
Some of it has to do with politics, some with history, some with topography, geology, climate
However, one really insidious aspect of Boston is the excesses introduced by special deals:
1) police details
2) union project agreements
3) Conservation Law foundation and other non-representatives making arrangements for "us"
4) politically arranged favors of all types
Unfortunately the Big Dig and Greenway has all of the above and in an abundance
The best solution would have been to build the surface road as a boulevard with a small green tree-lined median strip and wide sidewalks and then sell the rest to developers to stitch back together the city that was ripped apart {literally in the case of a couple of wharf buildings for road construction dating back to the twenties and of course the Big Tear-down for the Expressway in the 1950's
}That isn't going to happen. The next best solution is to build the basic Greenway and let future decades gradually fill the blank space with structures, formal gardens, etc. -- much as what happened with the common and the Public Garden
If we need to build anything public at this time its -- A public market hall
1) a grand mostly glass and metal tent ? essentially a roof mounted on massive granite piers for linkage to the Granite-era
2) a structure reminiscent of the original Quincy market in shape ? but taller and wider
3) ideally located where the miserable New England Aquarium Garage is currently located
4) freely open to all with services available {water, heat, cooling, electricity, telecom, roll-up walls} for a fee
5) with payment and reservations available through an website {like Zipcar for a building}
6) that will get the 3rd world squalor of Haymarket under control
7) and allow local farmers to sell their produce in the summer and early fall and then thousands of pumpkins around Halloween, Christmas trees in December}
8) a place for impromptu public lectures, performances day or evening {roll up roof covering for shade in the day}, {lighting for night use}
9) a place for sheltering the pedestrian walking the cold and windswept and rainy or freezing rainy Greenway in November, December, January, February, March, April
10) a place to shelter the weary pedestrian from the baking and steamy heat of July and August
11) replace the parking spaces with underground parking
Anyway -- hope to hear comments and have a chance to make some of my own from time to time
8)
Lurker
Senior Member
- Joined
- Jun 13, 2006
- Messages
- 2,362
- Reaction score
- 0
Well besides Haymarket, there has been a regular open market by South Station on the Mass Hort. site. Given the nature of the new subway entrances and the sail/tree like deconstructivist forms of the original garden under glass proposal, maybe a covered market would be a good choice for that parcel? The rented space would pay for the structure, and perhaps over time it could be expanded to include a smaller garden under glass. Maybe even have the market be somehow merged into an all weather covered park? I could however, see how that might lead to a problem with rodents and the homeless if it is badly administered.
B
bosma
Guest
"3rd world squalor of Haymarket " lol, but true
"a place for sheltering the pedestrian walking the cold and windswept and rainy or freezing rainy Greenway in November, December, January, February, March, April
10) a place to shelter the weary pedestrian from the baking and steamy heat of July and August "
That would be nice but what would this shelter be? just a building with benches? This is what stores, restaurants, etc are for. The Boston Museum would be a great place to get away from the weather.
"The best solution would have been to build the surface road as a boulevard with a small green tree-lined median strip and wide sidewalks and then sell the rest to developers to stitch back together the city that was ripped apart {literally in the case of a couple of wharf buildings for road construction dating back to the twenties and of course the Big Tear-down for the Expressway in the 1950's } "
This would be difficult with Boston's One Way Streets. In addition I would imagine the on/off ramps to I-93 were positioned in certain places for a reason. I would imagine a boulevard would have been difficult to position around the on/off ramps.
"
"a place for sheltering the pedestrian walking the cold and windswept and rainy or freezing rainy Greenway in November, December, January, February, March, April
10) a place to shelter the weary pedestrian from the baking and steamy heat of July and August "
That would be nice but what would this shelter be? just a building with benches? This is what stores, restaurants, etc are for. The Boston Museum would be a great place to get away from the weather.
"The best solution would have been to build the surface road as a boulevard with a small green tree-lined median strip and wide sidewalks and then sell the rest to developers to stitch back together the city that was ripped apart {literally in the case of a couple of wharf buildings for road construction dating back to the twenties and of course the Big Tear-down for the Expressway in the 1950's } "
This would be difficult with Boston's One Way Streets. In addition I would imagine the on/off ramps to I-93 were positioned in certain places for a reason. I would imagine a boulevard would have been difficult to position around the on/off ramps.
"