Rose Kennedy Greenway

"Don't put that tower there, it'll cast a shadow!!!"

"there's not enough shade on the Greenway"
 
commuter guy said:
"Sometimes you're lucky and you get a great park right out of the gate, like Millennium Park in Chicago," said Richard Dimino, who, as president of A Better City, advocated for the project on behalf of the business community and helped in the planning.
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So it's luck, eh?
 
commuter guy said:
Boston Globe article on the Greenway:

Tomanic, an architect, said the space could be intimate if there were berms to insulate it better from traffic and a trellis to guard against the sun.
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Berms are a terrible idea from the sixties. They had them at the Waterfront park, Elliot Norton Park and at Copley Sq(concrete). They've all been removed.

Everyone complains about The Horticulture Society and how they have not been able to accomplish anything. Why not become part of the solution and join the organization. They are also looking for help with the planting. By the same token they should work with one of the many area art museums and make this a sculpture garden until they can build. Most of our local museums display very littler of their collections for lack of space.

One of the criteria foundations and individuals use to gauge wether to donate to an organization is the membership level. That's why the Museum of Fine Arts has the highest per capita membership in the country.

Boston has more cultural organizations for a city it's size than it can currently support, partially because the generation before us did a better job creating and maintaining them. Don't for get we've recently lost the Computer Museum and the Immigration Museum. Also both the Aquarium and Zoo lost their accreditations recently(if my memory is correct).

If they still need enough help maybe we should have an ArchBoston day.
http://www.masshort.org/Greenway-Volunteer-Form
 
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In addition to the decentralization that suburbanization wrought, our proximity to NYC is sucking a lot of patron dollars. A lot of the money which used to fund institutions, other than the MFA, shifted to NYC following the rise of air travel. Why donate here, when there's something bigger and better an hour away via a comfy first class shuttle?
 
I'm glad an article finally addressed the shade issue. I think the placement of the trees will result in the three lanes of traffic on either side of the median strip eventually receiving more protection from the sun than the public space in between.
 
Everyone complains about The Horticulture Society and how they have not been able to accomplish anything.

Everyone has every right to complain about the Horticulture Society! These bozo's were given a choice group of parcels and the idea of a Garden Under Glass was dangled infront of everyone's eyes for years, all the while knowing they could never build the damn thing. They should have come clean years ago and given up the parcels to one of the other organizations. Mass Hort should have been booted out on it's ass years ago!
 
People are just starting to realize that Boston has created yet another urbanistic quagmire--another City Hall Plaza. We can look forward to bickering about how best to fix it for the next several decades while it festers unloved and underused.
 
City Hall plaza replaced a neighborhood, RKG replaced a evalated highway.
 
briv said:
People are just starting to realize that Boston has created yet another urbanistic quagmire--another City Hall Plaza. We can look forward to bickering about how best to fix it for the next several decades while it festers unloved and underused.
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Are you talking about the mass hort parcel or the entire greenway? if that latter I think you are way off base. Maybe to most people on the board, who measure the success of each parcel on the dig as how it serves as a destination for suburbanites and midwestern tourist. The city is better than that, of course, and as a resident I think--nay, know-- that the North End Park is already much loved and used. Other parcels of course, not so much, but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater
 
Pierce said:
Maybe to most people on the board, who measure the success of each parcel on the dig as how it serves as a destination for suburbanites and midwestern tourist. The city is better than that, of course, and as a resident I think--nay, know-- that the North End Park is already much loved and used. Other parcels of course, not so much, but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater
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What are you saying? Seem conflicted.
 
I walked through the North End Parks around 10:30 Friday night, and they were full of people. Especially the tables under the pergolas. The Hanover Street crowd seems to naturally spill into the parks.

A park that people want to be in at 10:30 pm is a success.

The State Street fountain (does it have a real name?) has quickly become a hit, too.
 
Ron, are the light blakes over by the fountain lit at night? I saw some pics of them as they were being given a trial run about a year or so ago (they looked pretty impressive) but wondering if they're being regularly lit at night.
 
Suffolk 83 said:
City Hall plaza replaced a neighborhood, RKG replaced a evalated highway.
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Strictly speaking, Scollay Square was more of a business and entertainment district than a residential neighborhood.

Understanding the point you're making does nothing to exonerate the Greenway from being a disjointed, poorly conceived public space. Until attractions and amenities (restaurants, bars, programmed spaces, public restrooms) take their place on (as opposed to adjacent to) the Greenway, I'll consider it a half-assed attempt at a half-assed idea.
 
ablarc said:
What are you saying? Seem conflicted.
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I'm saying that maybe as a destination for greater boston, the "greenway" is a failure, as many on the board seem to assess it. I say parts have failed, but that the North End Park parcel, in particular, is consistently full and is well suited to its context. I think some of it, particularly on friday nights and weekends, can be chalked up to Freedom Trailers and people eating out in the North End, but for the other times it is strictly a neighborhood park. In other words, this parcel does not have to be a destination to be a success, and the entire greenway shouldn't be written off because it doesn't or because other parcels are a failure at multiple levels.
 
SHIRLEY KRESSEL
A private power grab on the public's Greenway

By Shirley Kressel | July 14, 2008

WHILE POLITICIANS dithered about responsibility for the Rose Kennedy Greenway - an environmental mitigation for the Big Dig - a Greenway Conservancy formed, promising to save the public park with private money. But under legislation this entity is now promoting, we'll be funding a private park with public money.

The conservancy isn't a join-up group of park advocates. It's a board made up mostly of corporate executives and lobbyists. They represent businesses in the corridor that want control over the park and surrounding development, maximizing their own economic benefit at the least cost to themselves.

The conservancy won popular support by promising a private rescue. It reported raising $20 million (including $8 million in public grants) and committed to raise another $17 million, through donations, book deals, event sponsorship fees, vendor fees, and even tax-exempt bonds.

Yet it now claims that it can't keep its promise, and demands state funding.

The bill filed on the conservancy's behalf authorizes a $2 million state grant, a Turnpike land-lease of 20 years, and state funding of half its proposed budget - up to $5.5 million annually. So it is planning a budget of at least $11 million annually for what, by a reasonable calculation, is about 10 acres of park. (For perspective: The city manages 2,200 park acres with $15 million.)

How much should Greenway management cost? At New York's Central Park per-acre rate, the Greenway would need $300,000. Other estimates approach $500,000 to $1 million a year.

The conservancy wants taxpayers to provide much, much more: Upfront public grants totaling $10 million, plus $110 million for the 20-year term - enough to run the park for a century, without private money. Was this just a bait-and-switch?

Why is the state willing to waste so much money? And what would the conservancy do with all that funding? Nobody knows.

The private conservancy is exempt from laws on open meetings and public records, as well as prevailing wage, competitive bidding, and conflict of interest. The bill requires only partial disclosure, so we will never get the full story. Bountiful money and lack of transparency and accountability are a recipe for a make-work patronage bureaucracy.

Beyond money, the conservancy wants power. The long-term lease would confer land interests similar to ownership. The bill specifies powers over future redesign of the park, including buildings and memorials, and a review role in surrounding development - the fox guarding the henhouse.

The conservancy board has already preempted real public advocacy, sacrificing the Dewey Square gardens' sunlight to an abutting tower proposed for Russia Wharf by a conservancy member. (LOL) The relevant zoning agency discounted public protest on the grounds that the conservancy would oppose the project if there were a problem with it. Inherent conflicts make this the wrong guardian for the Greenway.

The bill also lets the conservancy control events and activities, and, yes, admission fees. In fact, the park would be open to the public, subject to conservancy regulations over its use. Not state or city regulations; private regulations. And the community's role in future decision-making would be marginal.

It's fair to say that if this bill takes effect, the Greenway park would not be "common ground" in any meaningful way.

Post Office Square Park was created by many of the same business interests. They leased public land and built a park to enhance their business environment. They also set their own regulations: they prohibit free speech and assembly. Public park rangers (which the conservancy also plans to hire) eject the undesirables - people engaging in political activities, taking photos, sunning with their eyes closed, tossing a ball with a child, strumming a guitar, (not true, but whatever) and, of course, looking impoverished. Post Office Square also claims to be privately funded, but it gets a huge tax subsidy. It's pretty, but it's private. We pay them to keep us out. That's the model for the Greenway.

We elected a governor who promised civic engagement, transparency, and fiscal accountability; that's what we need. The Turnpike Authority, which built and owns the park, should simply solicit bids for a cost-effective, high-quality management contract, funded by the state. Private donors could simply form a friends-of-the-park group.

Unless the bill is defeated, the Kennedy Greenway, whose name honors a tradition of democracy, will never be truly public again.

Shirley Kressel is a landscape architect and urban designer.

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/e...a_private_power_grab_on_the_publics_greenway/

Much of what she says doesn't make sense, but her general idea is correct imo, the parks should be public. However, her concern about people being restricted from using the Greenway is totally unfounded, the reason it should be public is because its a public resource created by a government project, not because some people on the board actually support having shade on the barren Dewey Square with a not-so-tall tower (Russia Wharf).
 
You guys wanna pay more taxes to pay for the park? Most people (and by most people I refer to middle class suburbanites or North End/Chinatown residents) would rather have their cake and eat it too. They don't want higher taxes but they want nice parks. This is apparently the solution. I don't think it is right but as long as most people care more about their own bank account and less about the public good, this is how things will go.

Since Shirley is actually a member here maybe she can explain in detail some of these accusations.
 
A few years ago, I wanted to have my engagement photos taken at P.O.Sq Park.
I had heard about the taking photos thing so I looked into it. I found something on their website about needing a form to get permission for photography in the park.
So I went up to the office on Congress St to get the form. When I got there I spoke with a nice lady and when I told what I wanted permission for, she just laughed and told me that was only for commercial photography and I was allowed to take as many pictures as I wanted.
 
The Greenway and the Garden Under Glassed Scheme

I know that this posting is long ? but please bear with mea and let me lay out the following thesis. I will begin with a bit of a defense of the Horticultural Society and then will attempt to offer some more general observations that might help to explain why the Greenway?s proposed cultural institutions have not yet gotten to where they could be.

I've some experience with the Mass Horticultural Society -- as my wife has been an active member for several decades

The Mass Hort suffered from internal board strife and financial mismanagement through several cycles of Executive Directors. It screwed-up a nearly irreplaceable resource (ownership of Horticultural Hall and the unique collection of documents, books, prints, etc. in the Library) -- that were important not just to the city of Boston, but to the US. During that period of time the Mass Hort continued to run the New England Spring Flower Show (a nearly unique burst of hope offered to more than 100,000 in the typical bleak denouement of the New England winter); to attempt to raise money for the proposed ?Garden Under Glass? and to attempt to raise money for its own new home and World Class Botanical Garden -- Elm Bank in Wellesley the former Cheney Estate that had fallen into disrepair as a Massachusetts MDC property.

In the meantime, Mass Hort?s competition (not NYC) but the Worcester County Horticultural Society, acquire the land, design and built a very fine, vibrant and well designed Tower Hill Botanic Garden in West Boylston. Finally, after a thorough shake-out of the Board a couple of New Executive Directors and such ? Mass Hort has turned the corner and Elm Bank Botanic Garden is beginning to become an important Botanic Garden for Greater Boston ? aka the HUB ? in -- Wellesley.

More Generally -- Boston's generic cultural institution problem has little to do with NYC and a lot to do with the combined Tower Hill and Elm Bank-effect -- which in turn relates to the history of settlement and development. Specifically the HUB has been subject to contrasting centralizing and centrifugal forces for more than a century driven by the rapid creation of nearby important cities and towns outside of the core of the HUB beginning in the 19th Century. Finally, the 60 year Route 128 boom (as old as the Transistor) and more remote and more recent 30 year I-495 / I-93 boom has furthered the centrifugal tendencies of the Greater Boston Region of which Boston is the HUB

By comparison the cities that the HUB competes with globally as a World Leader in health care, higher education, finance, biotech, high-tech and the all-important tourist industry (including the near-by and in my opinion highly over-rated NYC) are far more centralized and unitized. If you are in a suburb in most of them -- you are clearly in a place that is a minor planetoid (Pluto-like) in the orbit of the sun in the regional solar system. While those other cities have expanded outward the surroundings are either bedrooms or in some cases workshops that support the central city.

Such is not the case for the HUB in general, in part because out of the 5 million or so in the Greater Boston area only 10% actually live in Boston proper. As a result there is too much activity in the suburbs of the HUB to allow the city?s cultural institutions to exert dominance over the far-flung suburbanites. The exceptions -- The Big 3 (MFA, BSO and the MOS to a somewhat lesser and more recent extent). The above short list are legitimately recognized as long-standing (well for nearly 40 years in the case of the MOS) as World-Class Cultural Institutions -- not just as competitors of Worcester or NYC but of also of London, Paris, Berlin, Rome, Madrid, Vienna, Amsterdam, etc.

All the rest of the HUB?s cultural institutions (even the Gardner and the ICA) are competing with more local stuff (often connected with Colleges and in some cases Private Schools) in Concord, Wellesley, Acton, Duxbury, Waltham, Andover, Lowell and of course Worcester. A lot of the suburban crowd (by far the dominant in absolute numbers and the most wealthy demographic fraction of the Hub's Metro Area population (due to the above-mentioned Rt-128 and I-495 booms) desires local stuff -- where you can pop over to see or do this or that without battling Boston core traffic or dealing with the perceived unpleasantness of the T. Finally Boston has to deal with Cambridge (especially Harvard) -- the HUB's own Rive Gauche -- except that Cambridge and Harvard try mightily to maintain their independence -- despite being embedded in the core of the HUB and closer to downtown than most of the Boston neighborhoods.

In Summary: -- History and Geography have helped to shape the destiny of cultural institutions in the HUB (including southern New Hampshire, Providence, and Worcester) and with the exception of the Big 3 (MFA, BSO, MOS) -- none has managed to achieve the required strength of attraction (even the New England Aquarium is marginal) in attracting members as opposed to visitors from the suburbs to be truly dominant. Hence we have had the decades of flailing about with about a dozen different opera companies, the failures of the Garden Under Glass ("there's a nice Greenhouse in Wellesley at the College? and even one in Waltham at the Lyman Estates with their 100 year old Camellias)

So what does this tell us of the future of the Greenway?: -- well I suspect that $4.00 per gallon gasoline will tend to strengthen the HUBS centripetal as opposed to centrifugal tendencies. But mostly ? it will take time to plan, try out and redesign and implement and try-out, etc., to finally decide on how best to utilize the Greenway parcels. Should the Greenway be viewed as a collection of individual modules (on a somewhat grander scale this has worked reasonably well for the Minuteman National Historical Park in Lexington, Lincoln and Concord) or should the Greenway be treated as an integrated Commonwealth Ave style boulevard with a landscaped pedestrian path surrounded by yes 3 lanes of traffic on each side.

Westy
 
^ I have to agree about the cultural institutions in the suburbs. Recently I went to the DeCordova (15 minutes from my house). A modern art museum that specializes in local talent but is rarely crowded and almost free with a pass from my local library. No need to worry about $25 parking or beating it out of town to escape traffic. A nice place to have a picnic in their sculpture garden and be home for dinner. I cannot take my 1 year old on the T from here because if he poops he will have to sit in it till I can find a place to change him which is almost impossible in Town and he is prone to diaper rash.

btw-I thought when I moved to the 'burbs to be near my job that I would be missing a lot but that isn't really the case. I actually have more access to more things from here than I did from Dorchester.
 
Suffolk83: "City Hall plaza replaced a neighborhood, RKG replaced a evalated highway."

Actually the RKG replaced an elevated highway that had replaced several neighborhoods.
 
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