Roxbury and Racism (from MassArt Dorm thread)

[datadyne007]

That area looks so bleak.

It was funny (not really) when I took one of my black friends from DC through Roxbury to my apt near Brigham Circle and she said "Well you can tell exactly where the black neighborhood is and where the white one begins." There's such a jarring shift as you switch neighborhoods. It's sad actually. There's so much potential and it just gets ignored (like those empty lots).

 

[Suffolk 83]

Re: Mass Art Dormitory

It was funny (not really) when I took one of my black friends from DC through Roxbury to my apt near Brigham Circle and she said "Well you can tell exactly where the black neighborhood is and where the white one begins." There's such a jarring shift as you switch neighborhoods. It's sad actually. There's so much potential and it just gets ignored (like those empty lots).

Its like that in alot of us cities

 

[blade_bltz]

Re: Mass Art Dormitory

Parcel 25 can't get developed soon enough...

 

[kmp1284]

Re: Mass Art Dormitory

It was funny (not really) when I took one of my black friends from DC through Roxbury to my apt near Brigham Circle and she said "Well you can tell exactly where the black neighborhood is and where the white one begins." There's such a jarring shift as you switch neighborhoods. It's sad actually. There's so much potential and it just gets ignored (like those empty lots).

Not to sound racist, but it's reality and needs to be said. The problem with this part of town is simply that many of the blacks in this city are simply behind the times, either they're third generation welfare sleeping all day, panhandling to support their buzz/fix or they're still hung up on the jungle mentality - robbing, shooting and stabbing people when things don't go their way. I realize this doesn't apply to all blacks and the majority of them are decent, productive members of society, but until the black leaders out there recognize and condemn these problems rather than excusing their actions because they've been dealt a shitty hand at one time or another, nobody in their right mind is going to invest in them or their neighborhoods unless it's some sort of "public service" project, i.e. Whittier Street Health Center.

Just to clarify - not all blacks are welfare mothers, derelicts and thugs but too many; a disproportionately large number compared to other races are and until they rectify that, this part of town will remain an institutional cesspool.

 

[Shepard]

Re: Mass Art Dormitory

Well, your post IS racist, and not just some sort of otherwise rational thought that "sounds" racist. Whether or not you've sugarcoated it, you have essentially boiled a problem down to differences in race. That's the essence of racism. The truth is that while urban minority poverty exists and is quite conspicuous, rural white poverty is, by the numbers, even higher in this country. And I'd like to see you spin that fact along racial lines.

In any case, somehow I have a feeling that the closest you ever get to "this part of town" is when you're driving up I-93 from the Cape towards J. Press in Cambridge.

 

[HenryAlan]

Re: Mass Art Dormitory

+1, Shepard

 

[Ron Newman]

Re: Mass Art Dormitory

+2, also having lots of institutions (like Huntington Avenue, where this dorm is) hardly makes a neighborhood a 'cesspool'.

 

[Lurker]

Re: Mass Art Dormitory

Coming from the guy that lived in the South End prior to gentrification and spent a lot of time in Africa:

In the US there is a problem in the sociology of poor blacks in urban areas that, no matter what, they are victims of society and not responsible, in any manner, for their predicaments. Anyone that challenges that belief is chastised as not being black or worse. It's a VERY RACIST stance to insist that all black people must think alike and have the same opinion or else they aren't black, and sadly it is very common poor urban areas. Racism is very commonly practiced and tolerated amongst poor urban blacks because they believe, and are told by pseudo-academics, that only white people can be racist.

In the 80s it was sad to watch the continuation of victim culture by black men constantly calling each other "brother", because they didn't know who their fathers really were. This was supposedly based on the slave culture of families being broken up, but the reality was that their lack of family knowledge stemmed from the serial sexual irresponsibility of their parents. Many of the ancestors of these men never were slaves to begin with, but a popular victim culture had nonetheless destroyed their families. It's only gotten worse with rap music, and the celebration of marketing department created underclass culture, causing further degradation into calling everyone nigger and emulating a phony culture created to sell cassettes.

The sad irony is that for all these young black men formerly calling each other "brother" and the insistence of their sociological group that they need to stick together in some adversarial stance against a phony oppressor, "the man", they do more to victimize each other than anything. Death of a "brother" by a "brother" is the most common form for black men under the age of 30. That's not even getting into the drug use or welfare issues.

What's even sadder is that much of these social issues go back to the end of segregation and the genuine Civil Rights Movement. The populace was freed from real oppression and quickly invented their own.

There's a self destructive and depreciating culture which completely shuts out critics, reform, and self responsibility. Of course it's going to fester and not welcome healthy community development.

 

[KentXie]

Re: Mass Art Dormitory

Well, your post IS racist, and not just some sort of otherwise rational thought that "sounds" racist. Whether or not you've sugarcoated it, you have essentially boiled a problem down to differences in race. That's the essence of racism. The truth is that while urban minority poverty exists and is quite conspicuous, rural white poverty is, by the numbers, even higher in this country. And I'd like to see you spin that fact along racial lines.

In any case, somehow I have a feeling that the closest you ever get to "this part of town" is when you're driving up I-93 from the Cape towards J. Press in Cambridge.

When you mean numbers, do you mean percentage wise? Obviously there should be more whites in poverty because Caucasians outnumber African Americans by 6.65 times in raw numbers. I'm always skeptical with wikipedia, but while there are more rural Caucasians that are in poverty, a larger proportion of African Americans are in poverty compared to Caucasians, regardless of where they live.

"The US Census declared that in 2008 13.2% of the general population lived in poverty:[30]
8.6% of all non-Hispanic White
11.8% of all Asian-American
23.2% of all Hispanic (of any nationality)
24.2% of all American Indian and Alaska Native
24.7% of all African-American."

I see nothing racist in kmp's post. He didn't say all blacks but that there is a significant amount that do conduct such activities. The facts back him up no matter how much we don't want to hear it. However, the only part of his post that is in fact wrong is the last line "but too many; a disproportionately large number compared to other races are." Everything else is a cold dose of reality.

 

[datadyne007]

Re: Mass Art Dormitory

Sorry, I didn't mean to spark a debate about Roxbury and racism. That picture just reminded me of that quote from her.

I do remember though that Boston is often ranked in the top 5 most racist/racially segregated cities in the country.

 

[GW2500]

Re: Mass Art Dormitory

Not saying Boston dosn't have or had rascism, but it's no more racist than any other norther city.

 

[Shepard]

Re: Mass Art Dormitory

I see nothing racist in kmp's post.

Hmm...

The problem with this part of town is simply that many of the blacks in this city are simply behind the times

Note the explicit simplifcation of issues to race.

hung up on the jungle mentality

Needs no commentary.

--

Racism has evolved, and now often wears a cloak of reason or of qualifying wishy-washiness - a cynical response to PC culture. This doesn't make it any less racist, however.

 

[Lurker]

It's a stretch to imply the use of the word "simply" is overt racism.

The use of the "jungle" mentality, can refer to the "concrete jungle", often used in a non racially motivated sense to refer to the harsh life in some cities.

On the other hand, I've also heard the term "jungle" and "gorillas" used by blacks to refer to each other, or usually gang thugs, in a sarcastic tone; which is in fact racially motivated.

Jumping down another person's throat for not following an overly sensitive politically correct lexicon is unwarranted. Shutting down discourse by fuming over basic language is part of the reason why this country still has racial issues. Can't talk about serious issues because racism is used as an excuse to not talk about them. Even when the issue has nothing to do with racism.

It's the blame and shame game! Let's keep doing to so that no one ever has to actually to accept responsibility for anything!

 

[blade_bltz]

Yes, the people of Roxbury Crossing should take responsibility for the fact that the white folks on Beacon Hill tore the shit out of their neighborhood in order to better serve the needs of white folks in the suburbs.

 

[Lurker]

That was over 40 years ago. What have the residents done in four decades to help rebuild? How many people living in the area were even around 40 years ago?

If the Japanese spent the same amount of time grievance mongering over their country being bombed to ash by "the white man", they'd still be living in smoldering ruins. There's a certain point when people need to get over what happened and focus on building a better future.

 

[Ron Newman]

What have the residents done in four decades to help rebuild?

Do those residents now own the land that the state took to build I-95 and the Inner Belt? Much of which land is still empty or underutilized (e.g. RCC parking lots).

 

[Shepard]

It's a stretch to imply the use of the word "simply" is overt racism.

I wasn't saying the word was a racist word. But saying that a part of town is run down "simply" because the residents have a certain color skin IS a racist thing to say. Elevating race to a simple explanatory factor has been a rhetorical device used by almost every racist ideologue.

The use of the "jungle" mentality, can refer to the "concrete jungle", often used in a non racially motivated sense to refer to the harsh life in some cities.

Do you really think that is what he meant? Honestly.

On the other hand, I've also heard the term "jungle" and "gorillas" used by blacks to refer to each other, or usually gang thugs, in a sarcastic tone; which is in fact racially motivated.

So then he probably did use it racially - is that what you're saying? The fact that gang leaders may say it doesn't make it appropriate to say in this context.

Jumping down another person's throat for not following an overly sensitive politically correct lexicon is unwarranted. Shutting down discourse by fuming over basic language is part of the reason why this country still has racial issues.

This is the point, though. Kmp's post actually did use a form of the politically correct lexicon. He even went to great pains to say that his post is not racist. I'm sorry to say that the content of the post, and the ideas that it espouses, most certainly are racist. I would be fuming a lot less if instead of hiding behind a veneer of tolerance, Kmp did use basic language. If he had said outright "I have a distaste for certain groups of people based on the color of their skin which leads me to make certain assumptions about their neighborhoods" then I would have felt a lot less compelled to respond. I would have thought he was an asshole and a moron but I more than likely would not have felt the need to call him out on his glaring lack of transparency on the issue.

 

[GW2500]

Thats b/c the Japanese weren't deprived education and the ability to provide for ones self for almost 300 years. Most of the problems in the innercity black neighborhoods are now self perpetuating. But the cause of the problems stem from the fact that they were forced to live in the gutter for 300 years. African Americans tried many times post slavery to get their people up and running. Right after the emanicpation there were active black leaders trying to get the black comunity represented in government and educated. Certain white people shut it down and the rest didn't really care ( but I do think indiference is a mamal thing, not a white thing). There was something like 300,000 black voters in Miss. in 1895 and by 1905 1,500 (rough numbers). Black Wall St is something you must google if you do not already know. Basically thriving black neighborhood in OK that was burnt to the ground by KKK. And something like 3000 killed. Black folk in NYC were trying to create good neighborhoods and again certain white men exploited and created the modern ghetto. But I do agree w/ you that everyone despite your heritage must take responsiblity for their actions.

 

[blade_bltz]

That was over 40 years ago. What have the residents done in four decades to help rebuild? How many people living in the area were even around 40 years ago?

If the Japanese spent the same amount of time grievance mongering over their country being bombed to ash by "the white man", they'd still be living in smoldering ruins. There's a certain point when people need to get over what happened and focus on building a better future.

This analogy is weak. Japan's boom started from the top (incidentally leading to the enormous and shadowy bureaucratic culture which afflicts its progress today). How come the political-industrial complex hasn't been pouring money into Roxbury Crossing for forty years? Maybe throw down a couple heavy (extra) rail lines a la Tokyo?

A better analogy would be to Japan's thriving indigenous populations - the Ainu and Ryukyu - who have overcome centuries of oppression to finally arrive on a level social and economic playing field with the rest of the population! Oh wait...no...not at ALL.

 

[kmp1284]

I'll cover a few points now and finish off later.

Ron said - also having lots of institutions (like Huntington Avenue, where this dorm is) hardly makes a neighborhood a 'cesspool'.

I'm referring to the northern Roxbury area, essentially everything from BMC up Melnea Cass and down Tremont to Roxbury Crossing station including BPD HQ, the housing projects to the north and south and Dudley Square. And yes, I have driven through this area, more times than I care to count for that matter. I have no complaints with Huntington beyond some minor urban design issues.

I said - "jungle mentality - robbing, shooting and stabbing people when things don't go their way"

Jungle mentality in this instance refers to the the law of the jungle, an animalistic propensity toward violence and deviant behavior as a way of solving problems. See the story below as an example

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/re...rged_in_fight_over_icing/srvc=home&position=0

I said - "simply" twice

Chalk that one up to rushing and inadequate caffeination.

Shepard said - "If he had said outright "I have a distaste for certain groups of people based on the color of their skin which leads me to make certain assumptions about their neighborhoods"

My distastes for people are predicated entirely on their behaviors. Skin color has nothing to do with it. There are plenty of white Irish folks living it up in the Southie projects on my dime whom I hold in no higher regard because they happen to be white.