SAV-MOR Site Lab Building | 15 McGrath Highway | Somerville

statler said:
Let's be honest. Aside from the deco Superior Nut factory and the antiques store building (both of which are staying I believe), the Sav-Mor sign is the ONLY thing with any redeeming quality in that photo.
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+1. I was thinking the same thing. I’m looking forward to 2024 replacing 2014 in that area. Wish it could be moved up to 2023. What kind of “character” are we talking about?

Please, it’s not the corner of Kenmore Square. I’ve walked that wasteland area too many times. It has character. So does Mogadishu.
 
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bakgwailo said:
Is the character coming from the McDownlads sign or the Shell Station?
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Both, and more. Sure, that area is a mess and I’m glad it’s being developed but I think that photo shows character. i took a few photos of the radiator yard on prospect in Union before it ended. Again, character, something to look back on when there’s a load of new buildings that haven’t had the time to develop any.
im not advocating for keeping it like that, just like that that shot caught a moment in time no one would ever pay attention to.
 
Ruairi said:
Both, and more. Sure, that area is a mess and I’m glad it’s being developed but I think that photo shows character. i took a few photos of the radiator yard on prospect in Union before it ended. Again, character, something to look back on when there’s a load of new buildings that haven’t had the time to develop any.
im not advocating for keeping it like that, just like that that shot caught a moment in time no one would ever pay attention to.
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I had always assumed "character" was a positive vibe word, denoting something unique that people would miss when replaced.

Losing a decrepit but interesting and detailed early 20th century building for the Kenmore Square North ve'd replacement crap is a good example. The Shreve, Crump and Lowe building soon to be demolished by Drucker is another. And while the Sav-Mor sign has a witty marquee, is it physically anything special? We're not talking "Hilltop Steakhouse" or "Fontaine's" of Dedham here.

Thankfully the only good thing about the Sav-Mor sign (the brains behind the writing) is alive and quite well, as evinced by thier previous posts here.
 
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I take "character" to be suggestive of something out of the ordinary, unique, and specific to a location or building. Replacing much of this stretch of McGrath with newer, cleaner, better maintained developments will no doubt be welcomed by many, if not most, who live and work or even pass through the area, but there's no question that a set of vanilla, by-the-numbers, "these could be literally anywhere in the urban/suburban environment" structures and landscaping will remove that type of character, which currently exists.

Think of the stretch of Route 2 inbound just before Alewife. Objectively -- from a property value and safety standpoint -- the ho-hum, brand new condos and apartments that now sit where the old, abandoned Faces nightclub used to be represent an upgrade, but from an experiential standpoint, that spot has absolutely lost "character" (albeit somewhat sketchy) in favor of complete anonymity and utterly forgetful design.

I'm not advocating for abandoned buildings over much-needed housing or vibrant office- or lab space, but I think it's pretty clear what Ruari was getting at.
 
chrisbrat said:
I take "character" to be suggestive of something out of the ordinary, unique, and specific to a location or building. Replacing much of this stretch of McGrath with newer, cleaner, better maintained developments will no doubt be welcomed by many, if not most, who live and work or even pass through the area, but there's no question that a set of vanilla, by-the-numbers, "these could be literally anywhere in the urban/suburban environment" structures and landscaping will remove that type of character, which currently exists.

Think of the stretch of Route 2 inbound just before Alewife. Objectively -- from a property value and safety standpoint -- the ho-hum, brand new condos and apartments that now sit where the old, abandoned Faces nightclub used to be represent an upgrade, but from an experiential standpoint, that spot has absolutely lost "character" (albeit somewhat sketchy) in favor of complete anonymity and utterly forgetful design.

I'm not advocating for abandoned buildings over much-needed housing or vibrant office- or lab space, but I think it's pretty clear what Ruari was getting at.
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So you seem to be making my point. If the future of this area will be cookie-cutter plain (and that's a big IF), it's STILL a positive direction from the "experiential" (read, how it affects humanoids using the area, versus web forum photo enthusiasts) crap there now.

My point is that the number zero still has more value than a negative number.

Personally, I save my ire for Kenmore Square and Shreve - - situations where GOOD urban areas are demolished for plain cheap cookie cutter.

And your point about this particular scene being "lost in favor of complete anonymity and utterly forgetful design." - - it currently IS "complete anonymity and utterly forgetful design"....nothing is lost.

The only difference is that NEW, modern, more capacious "complete anonymity and utterly forgetful design" is replacing OLD, dangerous, dirty and less capacious "complete anonymity and utterly forgetful design".

.
 
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shmessy said:
So you seem to be making my point. If the future of this area will be cookie-cutter plain (and that's a big IF), it's STILL a positive direction from the "experiential" (read, how it affects humanoids using the area, versus web forum photo enthusiasts) crap there now.
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Hmmm... No, I really wasn't making your point, exactly, but I don't have the skills to expand or explain my take on the whole "character" debate any better than I already attempted.

As for how the area affects humanoids using the area, I am in that neighborhood daily -- was there for a couple hours this afternoon -- and while I, of course, think much more can be done to maximize that stretch of real estate than simply letting abandoned and vacant pet stores and car washes further decay, I still get and appreciate the original poster's (Ruari) point: there is unique character at present (whether it's your -- or MY -- preferred type of character or not) and, if those blighted structures are replaced by cookie-cutter, anonymous buildings and landscaping, there will not be.
 
chrisbrat said:
Hmmm... No, I really wasn't making your point, exactly, but I don't have the skills to expand or explain my take on the whole "character" debate any better than I already attempted.

As for how the area affects humanoids using the area, I am in that neighborhood daily -- was there for a couple hours this afternoon -- and while I, of course, think much more can be done to maximize that stretch of real estate than simply letting abandoned and vacant pet stores and car washes further decay, I still get and appreciate the original poster's (Ruari) point: there is unique character at present (whether it's your -- or MY -- preferred type of character or not) and, if those blighted structures are replaced by cookie-cutter, anonymous buildings and landscaping, there will not be.
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Ugh. Now you brought up the word “unique”.

I fully agree that parsing the words in this discussion becomes tired after a while and will refrain from asking you what makes this very common scene “unique” in order to save you, me and everyone the pages of tired conversation that would ensue.

But put me down as a vote that that stretch in the pic is definitely not “unique”.
 
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chrisbrat said:
"these could be literally anywhere in the urban/suburban environment" structures and landscaping
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Doesn’t this describe what’s already there? I’m sure I could find plenty of examples of wide roads with a McDonalds and a liquor store elsewhere in the country that look exactly like the photo Ruairi commented on.
 
Walking out of East Cambridge and on to McGrath always felt like stepping off the end of the world. Hopefully all the construction along McGrath can create more of a sense of place.
 
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Charlie_mta said:
It will replace the Sav-Mor Liquors and work towards extending the street wall from Lechmere Square toward Somerville.
Here's what's currently at 15 McGrath Hwy.
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Though a worthy replacement, I will miss Sav-Mor's cheeky sign messages, with gems like "Best Liquor Scout Mag 2016-2017. Thank you Somerville for your low standards", and "Suck it Barneys Booze Arama. Winner Best Liquor Store Scout Magazine 2016" (see the past street views for more).
 
W-4 said:
Walking out of East Cambridge and on to McGrath always felt like stepping off the end of the world. Hopefully all the construction along McGrath can create more of a sense of place.
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I agree with your hopes 100%. However, looking at the renders for 15 McGrath and its ground floor presence, it doesn't look like that particular building is gonna help much towards that goal.

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shmessy said:
I agree with your hopes 100%. However, lookiing at the plans for 15 McGrath and its ground floor presence, it doesn't look like that particular building is gonna help much towards that goal.

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At least the closeness of this substantial building to the sidewalk will help with the continuity of the street wall from Lechmere Sq., helping the area to appear less like a commuter highway and more like an urban street. Also the presence of a good size workforce should encourage small retail/shops in any developments between it and Lechmere. I like the trees in front as well because trees in this once heavily industrial area have been few and far between for the last 200 years.
 
Charlie_mta said:
At least the closeness of this substantial building to the sidewalk will help with the continuity of the street wall from Lechmere Sq., helping the area to appear less like a commuter highway and more like an urban street. Also the presence of a good size workforce should encourage small retail/shops in any developments between it and Lechmere. I like the trees in front as well because trees in this once heavily industrial area have been few and far between for the last 200 years.
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Defintitely takes it out of the "windswept desert" category. Not sure it brings it to "sense of place", however. I would fully agree it brings it from a 0 to a 3.5 on a 10 scale. Hopefully the ensuing developments bring that "Sense of Place" or "Walkability" etc. score higher still. This is an area that is in close proximity to world class urbanity. It ain't Woburn. I do see this 15 McGrath as a good initial step, but hopefully, the follow-ups will have higher urbanity aspirations.
 
RandomWalk said:
The McDonalds and a Star Market plaza needs to be replaced for the street wall the feel less sprawling.
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Absolutely, and I hope the momentum from Cambridge Crossing and the development at the former Lechmere Station site will make that happen. All of these parking lot shopping centers along O'Brien Hwy and McGrath Hwy will be developed into urban type developments, I'm hoping.
 
RandomWalk said:
The McDonalds and a Star Market plaza needs to be replaced for the street wall the feel less sprawling.
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I'm not sure there's much that can realistically be done to enclose McGrath there. The shopping plaza is backed up against the McGrath bridge spanning a huge rail junction. I don't know if the demand for that real estate would justify the huge cost of decking. It's similar to ABP over the Fitchburg line in Cambridge.

Also, residents of the area will probably raise hell if a replacement does not contain a proper grocery store.
 
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