Silver Line - Phase III / BRT in Boston

Re: Silver Line Phase III

I don't understand why the T is "obligated" to build SLIII, but they can create a bogus organization to kill the Arborway restoration!

Bizarre, isn't it? Somehow the Silver Line is "new service" but the Arborway isn't. Must have to do with what the fed wants to spend money on -- buses! (I'd rather see $1 B spent on Arborway than on the Silver Line at this point.)
 
Re: Silver Line Phase III

How about this as a radical idea.

Short term, run a long segmented bus from Dudley up Washington to Essex, then Essex to Atlantic, Atlantic to Summer, Summer to E St, then I-90 to the airport. Essentially it would just be a high-fequency high-capacity above ground bus line, and we call it "The Silver Line" and pat ourselves on the back for building it on the cheap. The only tunneling done in this phase is a cut/cover tunnel connecting Boylston and Chinatown, which would be wide enough to allow future LRT service, but used in the short term as a pedestrain connection only.

The existing BRT tunnel from South Station to World Trade Center is fitted with tracks and LRT train sets are run on it (yes, just the three stations, with a mini mainenance yard currently at the portal at congress)


LONG TERM:

The Orangle Line branches at New England Medical Station with the new spur going underground down Washington to Dudley.

One of the Green line inbound lines branches at Boylston Station and continues down Essex using the existing pedestrian tunnel built during the first phase of my plan. The tunnel would then be extended to South Station connecting to the current BRT tunnel that was upfitted for LRT in phase I of my plan. Finally, a new LRT tunnel is built under the Harbor.

_______

This plan does several things. First, the first phase could be built with minimal investment, and the large capital costs (upfitting South Station to WTC with LRT, and the 1 block tunnel between Boylston and Chinatown) would be significantly less than the $1B tunnel currently planned.

Secondly, in the long run, it leverages the existing infrastructure and provides better routing the the circuitous silver line route as proposed. In fact, it's even better than as proposed. Back Bay and points west riders would have a DIRECT route to the airport, and though South End/Roxbury riders would have to make one transfer, the routing would be much quicker. Finally, this routing would take significant pressure off Park St. as it would allow Commuter Rail/southern Red Line riders to have direct access to Back Bay/Prudential Center.
 
Re: Silver Line Phase III

^ Sounds better than the preposterous gryphon that the Silver Line has always been.
 
Re: Silver Line Phase III

So when this gets completed in the year 2473, is there a seperate tunnel for LRT to the airport or does the trolley run in the Ted Williams in mixed traffic? Cuz that would be hilarious.

Also, are those rails from south station to WTC already in the BRT tunnel or is that what you are proposing?

It is hard to believe that the silver line would stay the way it is. It seems so much like a half-assed partially completed project! Are we so poor now that this is what we have to deal with? What could be crappier than our silver line? Maybe we could have rapid transit rickshaws??
 
Re: Silver Line Phase III

Oh, there is a separate tunnel (or suspenion bridge, whatever is cheaper) all right.

There are no rails in the tunnel at current, but the tunnels are designed to allow the addition of rails.

I'll try to update the current T map with my plan this weekend.

I think my plan would be more politically tenable with the masses because it at least is a small step towards allowing future rail service.
 
Re: Silver Line Phase III

So when this gets completed in the year 2473, is there a seperate tunnel for LRT to the airport or does the trolley run in the Ted Williams in mixed traffic? Cuz that would be hilarious.

The intelligent thing to have done (in 1987) would have been to plan the Ted with three tubes, the third carrying the Red Line to Logan, creating a one-seat intermodal connection. South Shore residents bound for Logan would be able to park in Braintree and ride direct to a central check-in (likely beneath where the addition to the Central Garage is located). Some for folks on the north and west -- park at Alewife, ride direct to Logan. A connection from Logan to our top two academic nodes (Harvard & MIT) is added value.

It seems so much like a half-assed partially completed project!

Seems?

Maybe we could have rapid transit rickshaws??

Perhaps Hizzhonor has a few hundred grand for a feasibility study.
 
Last edited:
Re: Silver Line Phase III

Sierra Club: Silver Line plan shows ?willful ignorance and contempt for reality

The Massachusetts Chapter of the Sierra Club is responding to several recently-filed documents including the draft Finding of Effect Memorandum dated September 16, 2008, identifying the potential impacts to historic properties that may result from the construction of the Silver Line Phase III bus tunnel connecting the South Boston Waterfront Transitway with Washington Street bus service to Dudley Square in Roxbury. We believe that these filings seriously underestimate the likely effects, both temporary and permanent, of this construction project upon the structures and other features along its route. The most notable of these are its effects upon the ambient groundwater in the neighborhoods through which it would pass, and the unnecessary destruction of existing public transit infrastructure.

The Core Tunnel Segment of this bus line commences on Atlantic Avenue, a block south of the South Station upper-level busway. It then turns onto Essex Street, following Essex and then Boylston Street in a westerly direc-tion to a turnaround at the corner of Charles Street. The Charles Street Modified Alignment then makes a 90-degree turn to the south and continues until it reaches a portal just south of the intersec-tion of Charles and Tremont Streets, followed by a "boat section" ramping the bus up to street level in the block of Tremont between Charles and Marginal Road in front of the Mass Pike Towers apartment complex.

Much of the southern fringe of downtown originally lay under water, and it comprises some of the ear-liest exten-sions of the city to be built upon filled-in land. The route of this tunnel roughly parallels the original shoreline of the South Cove as it heads west, and then south.

Yet the discussion of the Core Tunnel Segment fails to acknowledge the issues and implications of tunneling through and near landfill, alleging there will be "No Adverse Effect" to the nineteenth century buildings along Essex Street in the Leather District and Chinatown, to Boston Common (including the Central Burying Ground), and to the Public Garden. "Ad-verse Effect" is found principally around Chinatown and Boylston stations, where transfer stations will be con-structed to connect the bus with two underground rail transit lines, as well as in front of Emer-son College on Boylston Street, and the corner of Boylston and Charles. There is no mention that the proposed expansion of the under-ground Boston Common Garage might take place in conjunction with Silver Line construction (Boston Globe, 6/5/07) -- a possible pedestrian connection into the subway station would certainly have some adverse impact on the Common - or that the bus turn-around at the corner of Charles would abut the south-eastern corner of the Public Garden.

Acknowledgement of the construction?s likely impact upon ambient groundwater levels does not appear until page 20 of the Memorandum, in a description of the Charles Street Modified Alignment - and then only in the context of the construction period. Evidently, we are expected to assume that its effects upon the water table will miraculously disappear once construction is complete and the tunnel placed into service. This assumption is not warranted, as the history of the area reveals. Construction of the new Back Bay Station and Orange Line over two decades ago has resulted in dangerously low water levels in the adjacent filled land, which threatens to undermine the foundations of many of its buildings, particularly in the Chandler Street neighborhood. The MBTA is now risking replicating this damage in its proposal to plop the bus tunnel and portal in the even more fragile soil of Bay Village, a neighborhood with generally older buildings than in the South End.

This Memorandum also minimizes the effects of vibrations upon the surrounding neighborhoods and assumes they will be restricted to the construction period. This is plainly incorrect. At the Tremont Street portal buses would change from diesel to electric trolleybus propulsion, and vice-versa. Buses emerging from the tunnel would start their engines while on the ramp, adding to ambient noise and vibration levels. They would also spew diesel particu-lates into several crowded neighborhoods suffering some of the worst air quality in the entire metropolitan region, also adversely affecting property values. On page 17 it states, "The portal will not separate Bay Village from any nearby historic buildings or areas..." It will, however, create just such an impediment for the residents of the Mass Pike Towers on the other side of Tremont Street -- are they less worthy than Bay Village homeowners? Elsewhere it twice states that the new portal is located on the site of the original streetcar portal that was abandoned in 1962; however, that portal was located at what is now the northern edge of Eliot Norton Park, half a block away from the corner of Charles and Tremont.

Such willful ignorance and contempt for reality is endemic to this entire project. Epitomizing the pernicious nature of the T?s Silver Line planning process, it proposes sever-ing the abandoned streetcar tunnel under Tremont Street to build the Boylston transfer. Such an action would destroy the utility of a tunnel that could be more effi-ciently utilized for a Washington Street light rail service directly into Park Street, at a fraction of the cost of what is proposed here. Evidently, the MBTA would squander this priceless urban resource to replace it with something far inferior.

This plan is a loser. Not only is the Silver Line proposal extremely wasteful of scarce public resources at a time when the Authority can barely pay its bills, but the MBTA is wasting the public?s time and money by repeatedly coming up with outrageous schemes it should have reason to know will be rejected. It is time for the Federal Transit Administration to put an end to this tawdry charade, reject this Memorandum and its associated filings, and compel the agency to come up with plans that will serve the needs of the real people who use the system -- not some fictitious ridership that exists only in its planners? imagination -- plans that will not create such an adverse impact on the surrounding neighborhoods.

Respectfully submitted,
John Kyper, Transportation Chair
Sierra Club, Massachusetts Chapter
 
Re: Silver Line Phase III

Wow. That letter reads like a "Greatest Hits" of sentiments frequently expressed here.
 
Re: Silver Line Phase III

". Buses emerging from the tunnel would start their engines while on the ramp, adding to ambient noise and vibration levels. They would also spew diesel particu-lates into several crowded neighborhoods suffering some of the worst air quality in the entire metropolitan region, also adversely affecting property values."

Its BS like this that makes you question the entire letter.

1) Guess what, the silver line buses already run down the street, and theyre not the only ones "spewing diesel particulates into several crowded neighborhoods".
2) Even worse, gasoline engines are currently more harmful than diesel engines, so every person riding the bus will improve the air quality.
3) And finally, all this ignores the fact that the line could easily be amde electric in its entirety.
 
Re: Silver Line Phase III

The busses don't go near Bay Village now and they won't be getting a stop inspite of putting up with construction and having these busses run throught thier neighborhood.
 
Last edited:
The Silverline

While I think there is a mixed feeling about the silver line and its benefits, I am in the opinion that heavy rail would be better. With that said, does anyone have a ballpark idea of how much it would cost to scrap the current rapid bus transit and dig a tunnel and establish a new heavy rail line?
 
Re: The Silverline

approximately...$way,t00,muc.h!
 
Re: Silver Line Phase III

". Buses emerging from the tunnel would start their engines while on the ramp, adding to ambient noise and vibration levels. They would also spew diesel particu-lates into several crowded neighborhoods suffering some of the worst air quality in the entire metropolitan region, also adversely affecting property values."

Its BS like this that makes you question the entire letter.
Not sure this is BS.

Guess what, the silver line buses already run down the street, and theyre not the only ones "spewing diesel particulates into several crowded neighborhoods".
So if things are already bad, it's OK to make them worse.

Even worse, gasoline engines are currently more harmful than diesel engines, so every person riding the bus will improve the air quality.
This is propaganda masquerading as fact. Pseudo science. Carbon dioxide harm versus particulate harm. Which would you rather suck into your lungs?

The polar bears can wait for a longer-term solution.

And finally, all this ignores the fact that the line could easily be amde electric in its entirety.
Nothing's easy at the MBTA.
 
Re: Silver Line Phase III

". Buses emerging from the tunnel would start their engines while on the ramp, adding to ambient noise and vibration levels. They would also spew diesel particu-lates into several crowded neighborhoods suffering some of the worst air quality in the entire metropolitan region, also adversely affecting property values."

Its BS like this that makes you question the entire letter.

1) Guess what, the silver line buses already run down the street, and theyre not the only ones "spewing diesel particulates into several crowded neighborhoods".
2) Even worse, gasoline engines are currently more harmful than diesel engines, so every person riding the bus will improve the air quality.
3) And finally, all this ignores the fact that the line could easily be amde electric in its entirety.

Diesel engines make their worst pollution and highest noise levels on cold startup, as in exiting the tunnel after being on electric power underground. This pollution is far worse than during continuous operation. (So the Silver Line startup in this location is definetly worse for the locals health than the current buses).

That said, I agree that public transit is still better than the automobiles on the city street. However, how many of the cars are actually going where the Silver Line goes? (The ridership projections are dismal). If the line does not reduce traffic, it is a total looser.
 
Re: Silver Line Phase III

Does anyone have a serious ballpark estimate to creating a new heavy rail line in stead of the buss rapid transit.

Also, with President elect Obama likely using infrastructure projects to help create jobs and spur the economy, how likely is Massachusetts to see some of the more than $100 Billion he is planning to spend?
 
Re: Silver Line Phase III

Does anyone have a serious ballpark estimate to creating a new heavy rail line in stead of the buss rapid transit.

Heavy rail? Nope. Light rail? About $600 million. Half of the original quote of $1.2 billion which in recent months has increased by $100 million to $1.3 billion (along with an extra year to complete the project after it opens - probably leaving us with Kenmore/Arlington/Copley Part Deux).
 
Re: Silver Line Phase III

Heavy rail? Nope. Light rail? About $600 million. Half of the original quote of $1.2 billion which in recent months has increased by $100 million to $1.3 billion (along with an extra year to complete the project after it opens - probably leaving us with Kenmore/Arlington/Copley Part Deux).

Note that Arborway actually means 600 million over the SL cost of 1.2 billion, for a cost of 2 billion.

And of course that doesnt even include the massive cost of purchasing new vehicles.
 

Back
Top