SKY Everett | 114 Spring Street | Everett

kmp1284

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I applaud the gumption.

We need people to stick their necks out a bit, put forward bold plans, and go beyond the low resistance option. That’s how our cities were built in the first place and it’s the only way out of our current across-the-board high-cost for low-quality situation.
There’s a difference between sticking your neck out and proposing to light a pallet of cash on fire. Nobody in their right mind is going to pay new construction prices to live in this wasteland.
 

dshoost88

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There’s a difference between sticking your neck out and proposing to light a pallet of cash on fire. Nobody in their right mind is going to pay new construction prices to live in this wasteland.
That's exactly what doubters said when Wynn Resorts purchased the Monsanto site last decade.
That's exactly what critics suggested to Federal Realty Investors before they took on redeveloping the Ford Assembly Plant site into Assembly Row.
That's exactly what landowners thought when investors quietly purchased 38 square miles of swampland in Central Florida to establish the Reedy Creek Improvement District, only to find out Walt Disney was behind the plan to establish a resort there.

I challenge you and others to unlearn whatever stigmas and history you assign to the built environment because there are no shortage of visionaries ready to make you eat your words otherwise.
 

kmp1284

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That's exactly what doubters said when Wynn Resorts purchased the Monsanto site last decade.
And it’s largely been a commercial failure.

That's exactly what critics suggested to Federal Realty Investors before they took on redeveloping the Ford Assembly Plant site into Assembly Row.
Assembly had a lot more going for it with highway/transit access plus Somerville was already a desirable and gentrified community. That can’t really be said of Everett.

That's exactly what landowners thought when investors quietly purchased 38 square miles of swampland in Central Florida to establish the Reedy Creek Improvement District, only to find out Walt Disney was behind the plan to establish a resort there.
An irrelevant comparison.
 

JumboBuc

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There’s a difference between sticking your neck out and proposing to light a pallet of cash on fire. Nobody in their right mind is going to pay new construction prices to live in this wasteland.
If the developer wants to risk "light[ing] a pallet of cash on fire" he can be my guest. Its his and his partners' money and risk, not mine and not yours.

Again, our cities were built on speculative risk. We need riskers to push the envelope.
 

navigator4

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There’s a difference between sticking your neck out and proposing to light a pallet of cash on fire. Nobody in their right mind is going to pay new construction prices to live in this wasteland.
The Pioneer Everett building is one block away (one bedrooms rent for around $2400) and there is a big housing development going up in Chelsea which is 2-3 blocks away from this site.
 

bigpicture7

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And it’s largely been a commercial failure.
Do you think the pandemic had anything to do with this, and do you think we're always going to be in pandemic-mode?
...had a lot more going for it...desirable and gentrified...
Ouch.
An irrelevant comparison.
Not irrelevant at all, just more general.
If the developer wants to risk "light[ing] a pallet of cash on fire" he can be my guest. Its his and his partners' money and risk, not mine and not yours.
Again, our cities were built on speculative risk. We need riskers to push the envelope.
^this.

Some people on this forum clearly work in the industry of assessing and transacting real estate value. That is but one (highly abstracted) view of our reality. It is not the totality of reality, nor is it what touches most of the people who experience the city and environs. In fact, much of the real estate around us was developed before any of us were born, some of it involving tremendous risk, and some of its creators faced financial ruin - but they faced such ruin on their on volition after taking too much of a chance. And if you asked any of them again, after the fact, whether they'd prefer a life of chance versus a stable life of wealthlessness, most would still choose the former. Policy that allows people to take such chances, while minimizing the risk for the non-chance-takers, is good policy. A narrow, transactional view of this situation is: "but they could never get financing!" Yet the most amazing business success stories always start with that premise and end with a crazy, resourceful story of somehow finding a way...patching together the right proposal...weaving in benefits for tangential stakeholders...and, yes, tax breaks on occasion.

I, for one, would love the chance to stand back and watch someone else's pile of cash ablaze, while hoping that something great rises from the ashes.
 

dshoost88

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And it’s largely been a commercial failure.
Based on what--the gossip mill? A quick look at their latest Quarterly Report demonstrates that, despite disruption from the pandemic and COVID-19-related restrictions, the Encore Boston Harbor continues to generate gaming revenue. It is not a commercial failure. Get your facts straight.

Assembly had a lot more going for it with highway/transit access plus Somerville was already a desirable and gentrified community. That can’t really be said of Everett.
I bought a new construction townhome in Everett a year ago a 10-minute walk from 114 Spring Street--a former auto-body shop converted into 5 residential units. My neighbors that make up the association and I all hold college degrees (all from Northeastern, coincidentally), have household incomes above $100k, and we love the neighborhood. Our homes have already appreciated 15% in value since January 2020, and no sign of slowing. Everett may not have previously been 'a desirable and gentrified community,' but I can say with absolute certainty it is becoming one. Thus my earlier suggestion: unlearn whatever stigmas and history you assign to the built environment because there are no shortage of visionaries ready to make you eat your words otherwise.
 

bigpicture7

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Based on what--the gossip mill? A quick look at their latest Quarterly Report demonstrates that, despite disruption from the pandemic and COVID-19-related restrictions, the Encore Boston Harbor continues to generate gaming revenue. It is not a commercial failure. Get your facts straight.



I bought a new construction townhome in Everett a year ago a 10-minute walk from 114 Spring Street--a former auto-body shop converted into 5 residential units. My neighbors that make up the association and I all hold college degrees (all from Northeastern, coincidentally), have household incomes above $100k, and we love the neighborhood. Our homes have already appreciated 15% in value since January 2020, and no sign of slowing. Everett may not have previously been 'a desirable and gentrified community,' but I can say with absolute certainty it is becoming one. Thus my earlier suggestion: unlearn whatever stigmas and history you assign to the built environment because there are no shortage of visionaries ready to make you eat your words otherwise.
I'm with you: Boston needs Everett to be a success story (along with several other communities nearby). And we need visionaries to take crazy chances like this.

Real-estate-analyst types who don't think it's an issue if someone earning $100k can't live anywhere near the city center / employment centers are not rooting for Boston. They are just caught up in their job of caring whether certain numbers look "very attractive." That's their prerogative.

It's not yours/my concern whether this particular developer's numbers look "very attractive." If this developer needs to sell/rent at below Somerville rates to occupy this building, but the result is a systemic improvement of the greater-Boston-housing-employment-quality-of-life ecosystem, then it is a win for the majority of us. I'd be careful citing personal examples to folks with a different worldview than this, they'll come back with some argument about how your situation isn't "very attractive" in their realm. Don't listen to them. Your situation is great and I wish you much happiness in your new home.
 

stoweker

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If the developer wants to risk "light[ing] a pallet of cash on fire" he can be my guest. Its his and his partners' money and risk, not mine and not yours.

Again, our cities were built on speculative risk. We need riskers to push the envelope.
yea but these guys aren't going to raise any money so it's a moot point. a PR dude and a condo flipper in southie aren't raising $100mm to build a 21 story highrise in the middle of an industrial wasteland. end of story.
 

stoweker

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The Pioneer Everett building is one block away (one bedrooms rent for around $2400) and there is a big housing development going up in Chelsea which is 2-3 blocks away from this site.
$2400 rents won't support 21 story high rise construction. you'd need pricing closer to $4500/month for a 1br to do that. that's not happening here. rich people don't want to walk out to hookers and drug dealers hanging out in front of the scrap yard next to them.
 

bigpicture7

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they did $233mm in gaming rev for 2020, let's generously say they hit another 40mm in room and F&B rev. with the state tax + gen op expense they probably netted ~120mm in NOI on $2.6bn in project costs so figure a 4.6% yield on cost. they likely didn't break even on debt service for the deal on an EBITDA basis let alone on cash flow when you strip out the heavy capex spend. there's no question it's going to generate gaming revenue, it's not generating it at a sustainable pace. will see how 2021 and beyond looks for them but i don't think i'd call wynn boston a screeching homerun; it looks more like a commercial failure.
And all of the above is meaningless unless you are going to discuss pre-/post- pandemic performance. Which you can't, because it is unknown and unknowable at this point.
 

stoweker

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And all of the above is meaningless unless you are going to discuss pre-/post- pandemic performance. Which you can't, because it is unknown and unknowable at this point.
deal still sucks wind. it wasn't doing great pre-pandemic, and hell, it was like the only entertainment venue open during the pandemic and it still didn't do well. i mean it was losing $40MM a quarter pre-pandemic.
 

Equilibria

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deal still sucks wind. it wasn't doing great pre-pandemic, and hell, it was like the only entertainment venue open during the pandemic and it still didn't do well. i mean it was losing $40MM a quarter pre-pandemic.
Either they will or they won't. The other projects that have broken ground in the Triangle haven't seemed to have issues with financing, but every project is different.
 

stoweker

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Either they will or they won't. The other projects that have broken ground in the Triangle haven't seemed to have issues with financing, but every project is different.
the other projects have actual sponsors with track records.
 

stoweker

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This part of Everett has very loose zoning. Even if the backers of this one aren't exactly for real, this is *exactly* what you'd expect to go up here with free ability to build.
well, no, it's not exactly what i'd expect to go up because investors need to make money. For a 21 story tower to make sense you'd need SWAG average rents of ~4000 / month to justify the construction cost. When you can find me enough people (figure 350 units so like... 325 people in perpetuity) willing to spend $3500/month for a 1br / 5k 2br / 6000 3br in a neighborhood surrounded by scrap yards and homeless people get back to me and i'll stroke a check.

what i would expect to go up in this neighborhood is low cost wrap or podium construction. i mean shit, Redgate refi'd one north of boston last april for at an implied value of $400k/unit. There's no chance in hell that someone can build a 21 story tower for anything less than 2x that even with like ikea level buildouts.

Oh and for comments on the other projects, they're being built by redgate (stop and shop), greystar (vero) and Fairfield (which is really just CalSTRs) (2nd and vine) so they have actual companies that actually know what they're doing actually building 4 story wrap product closer in to chelsea high. those projects make sense, have the right cost structure / demographic, and are much better located. they're also built by super sophisticated sponsors.

i have no doubt that something will get built here, i can just assure you it's not a highrise tower and it won't be built by these two guys. anyways my $0.00000000002, someone remind me to check this comment in 10 years to revive the thread when this proves it's nothing but a pipe dream.
 

Bananarama

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While I fully agree that counting this development out along with this area of Everett is foolish, this area of the city is sorely lacking the sort of infrastructural connection that areas like Assembly and Seaport had. Some sort of OL extension would really benefit any sort of renewal. A more comprehensive mix of PUDs and some serious remediation need to happen to erase the hell-hole vibe too.

Something like this with real height surely has the potential to draw in more density around it. It's a shame it's such a bland design. I really liked the idea of embracing the industrial aesthetic of the area with that proposal at the Exelon station and wish this was in that vein.

And this is anecdotal, but I went to Encore for the first time last month and was pretty floored just how crowded it was... Every table full, restaurants and hotel busy with activity. Could have fooled me we had a pandemic going on. I was a naysayer about the longevity of the casino before, but just on the face of it I can't imagine their normal business operations aren't raking in loads of money (it's still ugly and a stupidly tacky image of wealth/pleasure that I don't understand).
 
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SuffolkHeights11

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I'm with you: Boston needs Everett to be a success story (along with several other communities nearby). And we need visionaries to take crazy chances like this.

Real-estate-analyst types who don't think it's an issue if someone earning $100k can't live anywhere near the city center / employment centers are not rooting for Boston. They are just caught up in their job of caring whether certain numbers look "very attractive." That's their prerogative.

It's not yours/my concern whether this particular developer's numbers look "very attractive." If this developer needs to sell/rent at below Somerville rates to occupy this building, but the result is a systemic improvement of the greater-Boston-housing-employment-quality-of-life ecosystem, then it is a win for the majority of us. I'd be careful citing personal examples to folks with a different worldview than this, they'll come back with some argument about how your situation isn't "very attractive" in their realm. Don't listen to them. Your situation is great and I wish you much happiness in your new home.
Well said. The level of pessimism on this site sometimes is insane. Everyone should be rooting for this project and this area in general. If it works - great; if it doesn't - good on someone for trying. I don't understand what predicting failure does for anyone.
 

shawn

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I mean, Debbie Downer is originally from Lexington, so . . . maybe unrelenting pessimism is a core Masshole trait?
 

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