South Station Tower | South Station Air Rights | Downtown

[whighlander]

Even more reason why the city is royally fukked if the B-RC and NSRL aren’t going to be done.

Shmessy -- I agree that we should have the connection between Red and Blue

But much higher priority than digging an expensive tunnel in the midst of all of the city infrastructure -- we need to:

1. Connect Blue to CR in Boston / Revere as part of the development of Suffolk and extensions
2. Deliver more transit to Kendall Sq. -- whether by the Grand Junction or some other means
3. Provide another layer of redundancy such as through a Porter to Green connection
4. Build a consolidated Central Station downtown by linking all of the near-by stations with 2 lines or at least DTX with State to complement the existing Park to DTX
5. Dig under D St to allow an all underground high frequency loop from South Station to the Seaport
6. Re-open Dorchester Ave to vehicles

 

[odurandina]

Odurandina -- nice list

Some inconsistencies however -- as the FCC list of buildings with Antennas has to include the antenna mast itself when its a major part of the building [typically it has aircraft warning lights attached]. When you do that -- you have to compare the top of the antennas [AMSL] -- some of which are as easily seen as the mechanical penthouses, etc.

1. Pru's antenna mast @ 907.8' [AMSL]
2. 200 Clarandon St. 870.0' [AMSL]
3. One Financial Center 682.7 [AMSL]
4. One Beacon Street 665' [AMSL]
5. 53 State St. 630.9'
6. One Hundred Federal St. 627.9' [AMSL]
7. Old John Hancock [no longer in the FCC database]

There are possibly one or two others with antennae no longer in use -- but still on top of the structure.
Of course the AMSL is above mean sea level and hence a building on Beacon Hill such as One Beacon gets a boost from the terrain compared to the Pru or 200 Clarendon

The numbers i have now are probably, (finally) good numbers.
i want to be accurate, and have a good quick reference for >300'.
wanted to get 53 State and Dewey Square straightened out--
At this point, we pretty much know everything.

It's awesome finally seeing Boston fill in:
Low stuff, high stuff. The best is yet to come.
That spreadsheet is parsed from 1 search that spit out a partial list for some
Downtown towers, and i just cut out >20 low buildings.
On some, you're subtracting the masts/antennae from the total heights--to get to the roof height/s.
Other docs just list it-- FAA/ FCC stuff always seems to agree;
almost everything is dead on:
Pain in the ass the cranes can't be filtered out for FAA searches--anyone know how?
Good; the FCC documents don't bother with cranes.
Found a couple of sources that agree for the few that got a bump, (like 1 Boston Place).
You get the ground elevation, AMSL/ AGL height, and antenna tops.
Exchange Place's new antenna show's the new FAA Determination
for the site. Guess they wanted a bigger antenna.
We get 1 more confirmation for the roof height from that (win).
Otherwise, i'm not that interested in the antennae--just their base elevations.

Yeah, i saw a couple of lists without 200 Clarendon St and wondered about that too.
i thought i came across a document that lists the tall part of Winthrop Ctr as "Tower 1."
Of course, i can't find it (now).
i wonder if the ground levels for some possibly got redo's since the '70s/'80s.....
Anyway, the list looks good.

Kmp -- where would you place the Hub on Causeway? -- a lot of construction with some amount of inconvenience to commuters --

No: The inconvenient walk-around, reveled a fully functional platform.
Also, they completed a pedestrian tunnel.

 

[Massachoicetts]

^^^You have a lot of your heights wrong but I share the sentiment for sure.

What's crazy is that if this building was built in 2015 it would have been Boston's 3rd tallest, but by the time it's up it will only be 6th!

Yeah once I get into the sub 400 range it gets blurry, definitely ballpark figures for sure. But that should tell you something about the development here.. if someone who is addicted to the Boston built environment is loosing track and have high margin of errors on heights on buildings under construction then Bostons built scene is thriving. Big kudos there.

 

[HenryAlan]

There’s a big difference between major public works projects like the filling of the Back Bay, Big Dig, etc. that have benefited the entire city and region and a clunky and generic office tower marring one of Boston’s best buildings from an architectural standpoint with the ancillary "benefits" being years of inconvenienced commuters and residents and a congestion-inducing parking garage and a bus terminal that'll probably smell like piss within six months of opening.

Stated by somebody who has apparently never been in the bus depot and probably only seen the inside of South Station a handful of times.

 

[Czervik.Construction]

All the complaints about the impact to commuters and everyone else whose life will be permanently scarred because of construction at South Station, show them this:

2 Manhattan West at 950 feet tall is now going up over live LIRR tracks, that are far busier than MBTA at South Station. Oh and if that is not enough, NYC public works decided to close the adjoining street to tear up the entire street down 20 or 30 feet to replace pipes and stuff. This is directly next to the foundation core that sits on live tracks. Everything is just fine and people are ok on Long Island. This is not an NYC brag, just to show that complex stuff can be done over live tracks and then have the department of public works add even more complexity and things can still get done.

 

[jass]

Can you ask new yorkers who the construction of madison square garden affected their commute? Because thats a better example.

 

[393b40]

Can you ask new yorkers who the construction of madison square garden affected their commute? Because thats a better example.

How is that a better comparison? Construction process has changed massively over the years.

 

[Czervik.Construction]

Well, the whole area, as well as the Post Office conversion to the new LIRR/Amtrak terminal (in the top of my photo), is over live tracks. The LIRR trains are "stored" on the far west side, hence the Hudson Yards name. The trains have to pass under all of this, about a 1/3 of a mile of underground track with construction above to get to Penn for passengers to board.

The existing Penn Station is also undergoing a major overhaul. The Penn Station work is more of a nuisance because they moved ticket windows, closed certain stores, put up construction barriers, restricting walkways, etc. - However, the existing tracks are all still in use. This is the important part. In the end, as long as the trains keep running, that is all that matters.

Can you ask new yorkers who the construction of madison square garden affected their commute? Because thats a better example.

 

[Rover]

Well, the whole area, as well as the Post Office conversion to the new LIRR/Amtrak terminal (in the top of my photo), is over live tracks. The LIRR trains are "stored" on the far west side, hence the Hudson Yards name. The trains have to pass under all of this, about a 1/3 of a mile of underground track with construction above to get to Penn for passengers to board.

The existing Penn Station is also undergoing a major overhaul. The Penn Station work is more of a nuisance because they moved ticket windows, closed certain stores, put up construction barriers, restricting walkways, etc. - However, the existing tracks are all still in use. This is the important part. In the end, as long as the trains keep running, that is all that matters.

So you're saying that despite a few inconveniences they've managed to stave off cannibalism? Huh. Maybe its possible here too then.

 

[Gunner02]

Hate to go back to it but this city has seen the epitome of inconvenience with that little tunnel project we did back in the 90's/00'. We also see the incredible benefit today. The risk/reward on this isn't as drastic obviously but developing city economies need development of transpo hubs. I think we are fortunate that private developers are heading this mostly, and not the state and local bureaucracies which resulted in the 17 years and 20bil over that the BD caused. All in all, NONE of us thought we'd be here today actually talking about this happening and hell, even if we just get the bus station extension, its a win

 

[Cortes]

As someone who has criss-crossed the country multiple times by bus, I would have to rank the South Station bus terminal, in it's current form, close to the nicest large bus station in the entire United States. If not the top of the heap. Just the escalator entrance alone kills it in regards to the idea of "arrival, departure". I would love to know more about the planning of its expansion. Everybody talks about the train station, but the multi-modal idea of this does include the buses, and how the new construction will create the transition between them is actually pretty important. The continuity of the site depends on it.

 

[#bancars]

As someone who has criss-crossed the country multiple times by bus, I would have to rank the South Station bus terminal, in it's current form, close to the nicest large bus station in the entire United States. If not the top of the heap. Just the escalator entrance alone kills it in regards to the idea of "arrival, departure". I would love to know more about the planning of its expansion. Everybody talks about the train station, but the multi-modal idea of this does include the buses, and how the new construction will create the transition between them is actually pretty important. The continuity of the site depends on it.

Agreed, at least as far as my experience goes. I really like the bus terminal at South Station.

 

[shawn]

All the complaints about the impact to commuters and everyone else whose life will be permanently scarred because of construction at South Station, show them this:

2 Manhattan West at 950 feet tall is now going up over live LIRR tracks, that are far busier than MBTA at South Station. Oh and if that is not enough, NYC public works decided to close the adjoining street to tear up the entire street down 20 or 30 feet to replace pipes and stuff. This is directly next to the foundation core that sits on live tracks. Everything is just fine and people are ok on Long Island. This is not an NYC brag, just to show that complex stuff can be done over live tracks and then have the department of public works add even more complexity and things can still get done.

I hear you. I commute daily through the fourth busiest train station on earth with three 700 footers simultaneously under construction over live tracks which see 2.5 million daily riders. That's happening while the station itself is being fully upgraded for the Olympics. Not a peep of complaining from anyone about this: it’s 当たり前 / atarimae / “so obvious and given as to not need mentioning”.

Have Bostonians become softer than Tokyo-jin? God I hope not.

 

[FitchburgLine]

As someone who has criss-crossed the country multiple times by bus, I would have to rank the South Station bus terminal, in it's current form, close to the nicest large bus station in the entire United States. If not the top of the heap. Just the escalator entrance alone kills it in regards to the idea of "arrival, departure". I would love to know more about the planning of its expansion. Everybody talks about the train station, but the multi-modal idea of this does include the buses, and how the new construction will create the transition between them is actually pretty important. The continuity of the site depends on it.

The project will increase the number of bays by 50% and add an elevator/staircase connection from the (newly expanded) train hall to the bus concourse. Pretty exciting upgrade imo:

 

[stefal]

A lot of the concerns over the amount of complaining is a little exaggerated here. The Globe is just writing clickbait and alarmist pieces that will get people to open/read them, get angry, and post to their facebook feeds to get attention.

This is one of the most transparent/open projects with excellent and clear communication. They did everything they could, including a video of accessibility conditions during construction.

They will also give 5-10 more minutes of time for boarding starting this summer.

The graphics are also really helpful:

The interface between the concourse and platform will get a little small, but with the extra time and general understanding/not caring as much as the Globe thinks they will care, I don't think people will be too upset.

Other helpful graphics:

[months 2-5 also available]

 

[JeffDowntown]

The project will increase the number of bays by 50% and add an elevator/staircase connection from the (newly expanded) train hall to the bus concourse. Pretty exciting upgrade imo:
View attachment 3320

Anyone know why they are allowing so much more room per gate in the bus terminal expansion area? The gate packing density is much lower in the expansion.

 

[HelloBostonHi]

Anyone know why they are allowing so much more room per gate in the bus terminal expansion area? The gate packing density is much lower in the expansion.

The current bus terminal is a chaotic mess of lines at peak times so maybe a bit more space between bays is okay honestly... I'm more interested in why there isn't a nice direct escalator connection from the terminal expansion to the platform level, perhaps even a few escalators...

 

[Batmarch]

will someone please post a photo of actual construction or construction staging evidencing that construction has already commenced on this project?

 

[citylover94]

The current bus terminal is a chaotic mess of lines at peak times so maybe a bit more space between bays is okay honestly... I'm more interested in why there isn't a nice direct escalator connection from the terminal expansion to the platform level, perhaps even a few escalators...

I believe there is. The diagram below shows a set of stairs and escalators as well as elevators on the South Station end of the bus terminal expansion and the platform level diagram shows stairs and elevators in the same position at the end of some of the tracks that match those.

 

[whighlander]

Anyone know why they are allowing so much more room per gate in the bus terminal expansion area? The gate packing density is much lower in the expansion.

Jeff -- Perhaps they have learned from past experience