South Station Tower | South Station Air Rights | Downtown

May be living in a dreamworld, but with the reputation and legacy of the development team behind this project, I think I'm going to lean towards assuming that they won't, come completion of all construction, be caught off guard by something as elemental as the need for adequate lighting -- natural, artificial, or a combination -- for this space.

It's not like BMW trots out a new model and then, at the Shanghai Auto Show reveal, are like, "Oh, shit! We forgot about wheels!"
 
chrisbrat said:
May be living in a dreamworld, but with the reputation and legacy of the development team behind this project, I think I'm going to lean towards assuming that they won't, come completion of all construction, be caught off guard by something as elemental as the need for adequate lighting -- natural, artificial, or a combination -- for this space.

It's not like BMW trots out a new model and then, at the Shanghai Auto Show reveal, are like, "Oh, shit! We forgot about wheels!"
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It doesn’t really matter if the new concourse is well-lit. It’s an interstitial space, open to the outdoors, and I don’t even think it will have seating. The main waiting area of South Station is going to become even darker and danker than it already is. The existing roof needs to go.
 
chrisbrat said:
May be living in a dreamworld, but with the reputation and legacy of the development team behind this project, I think I'm going to lean towards assuming that they won't, come completion of all construction, be caught off guard by something as elemental as the need for adequate lighting -- natural, artificial, or a combination -- for this space.

It's not like BMW trots out a new model and then, at the Shanghai Auto Show reveal, are like, "Oh, shit! We forgot about wheels!"
Click to expand...
What's the difference between a BMW and a hedgehog?

The hedgehog has its pricks on the outside.
 
This week
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chrisbrat said:
May be living in a dreamworld, but with the reputation and legacy of the development team behind this project, I think I'm going to lean towards assuming that they won't, come completion of all construction, be caught off guard by something as elemental as the need for adequate lighting -- natural, artificial, or a combination -- for this space.

It's not like BMW trots out a new model and then, at the Shanghai Auto Show reveal, are like, "Oh, shit! We forgot about wheels!"
Click to expand...

I'm just a bit concerned that the South Station tower team (Hines) is not really responsible for the current interior concourse waiting area at South Station. I think the MBTA owns the actual building and Ashkenazy Acquisition is the management company. From what I understand and have seen in renderings, Hines is planning upgrades at the Bus Station with much improved public amenities, but I haven't seen the same type of renderings for the current South Station indoor concourse waiting area. As we have said in past threads, the ceiling of the current indoor concourse is dirty and dark. I certainly don't think it will transform into some crime infested public space! However, brighter lighting with skylights or artificial lighting would be a welcome improvement.

As others have said in previous threads, South Station concourse used to be one of my favorite people-watching public places, and it was just enjoyable to grab a coffee, sit at a table, and watch the hub-bub swirl around you. However recently, it's not been a place that I really want to spend extra time. That's all I'm saying. A few well-thought-out improvements could make this the GREAT public space it should be. :) MSSGA! (Make South Station Great Again!) (.......nothing political inferred in that joke.)
 
Java King said:
I'm just a bit concerned that the South Station tower team (Hines) is not really responsible for the current interior concourse waiting area at South Station. I think the MBTA owns the actual building and Ashkenazy Acquisition is the management company. From what I understand and have seen in renderings, Hines is planning upgrades at the Bus Station with much improved public amenities, but I haven't seen the same type of renderings for the current South Station indoor concourse waiting area. As we have said in past threads, the ceiling of the current indoor concourse is dirty and dark. I certainly don't think it will transform into some crime infested public space! However, brighter lighting with skylights or artificial lighting would be a welcome improvement.

As others have said in previous threads, South Station concourse used to be one of my favorite people-watching public places, and it was just enjoyable to grab a coffee, sit at a table, and watch the hub-bub swirl around you. However recently, it's not been a place that I really want to spend extra time. That's all I'm saying. A few well-thought-out improvements could make this the GREAT public space it should be. :) MSSGA! (Make South Station Great Again!) (.......nothing political inferred in that joke.)
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fully on board with all of the above. S. Station needs a refresh and -- most importantly -- *maintenance.* I've stated this before, but bears repeating: the T and Amtrak and the state of MA are more than capable of creating lovely spaces and stations (and all have), but then they (nearly w/o exception) let them rot. Porter Sq. station, when first built, was absolutely stunning (as was Alewife, as was post-refurb S. Station).
 
chrisbrat said:
fully on board with all of the above. S. Station needs a refresh and -- most importantly -- *maintenance.* I've stated this before, but bears repeating: the T and Amtrak and the state of MA are more than capable of creating lovely spaces and stations (and all have), but then they (nearly w/o exception) let them rot. Porter Sq. station, when first built, was absolutely stunning (as was Alewife, as was post-refurb S. Station).
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It's a tried and true Massachusetts tradition to let things rot and rust. The highway bridges and overpasses, their railings and steel beams, generally look like rust buckets, as do the T stations you mentioned. It seems to be part of the culture of the area.
 
Charlie_mta said:
It's a tried and true Massachusetts tradition to let things rot and rust. The highway bridges and overpasses, their railings and steel beams, generally look like rust buckets, as do the T stations you mentioned. It seems to be part of the culture of the area.
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Very true. Whenever I'm on the Zakim, I wonder "Will they eventually get to painting over those rust streaks on the support beams, or will this whole thing slowly just become rust-brown?"

Of course, they (the state, whoever) do paint the Tobin on the regular, so maybe large bridges are the exception to the norm? 🤷‍♂️
 
Charlie_mta said:
It's a tried and true Massachusetts tradition to let things rot and rust. The highway bridges and overpasses, their railings and steel beams, generally look like rust buckets, as do the T stations you mentioned. It seems to be part of the culture of the area.
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But for office towers, that has been the norm for so long. Just about ALL buildings are built with rusty steel, that is unless they are built with concrete. Once the spray-on fireproofing is applied, it doesn't look so bad. Which it won't once it's applied to the steel frame for the South Tower. I'm surprised that they haven't done so yet, but they will. :)
 
chrisbrat said:
fully on board with all of the above. S. Station needs a refresh and -- most importantly -- *maintenance.* I've stated this before, but bears repeating: the T and Amtrak and the state of MA are more than capable of creating lovely spaces and stations (and all have), but then they (nearly w/o exception) let them rot. Porter Sq. station, when first built, was absolutely stunning (as was Alewife, as was post-refurb S. Station).
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same thing is happening with the new Government Center station. opened in 2015(?) and already really showing its age.
 
#bancars said:
same thing is happening with the new Government Center station. opened in 2015(?) and already really showing its age.
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Noticing that, too, yeah. I truly don't get it. Spend 10s of millions to create a vastly improved, fairly nice new station and then... yeah, why bother ever cleaning any surface, or fixing cracked windows or broken lights. Better use of time and money to just let it rot for decades until it's barely usable and then do another multi-million (by that far-off date, billion?) total rebuild. Real smart.
 
RandomWalk said:
That pot of money is consumed with salaries, benefits, consumables, etc. Deferring maintenance or cutting everything to the bone are their only options.
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I know that's the commonly distributed narrative, but it's been demonstrated -- time and time again -- that when "the government" (be it local, state, fed, or combination) decides a project "NEEDS" funding, said funding is always found.

Definitly an apples vs. oranges example, but during COVID-related shutdowns etc., how did an arleady debt-laden government come up with the $ to send out multiple $1,500 (or whatever amount, depending on the iteration and your household situation) checks to everyone, or make it so that essentially *anyone* covered for full MassHealth coverage w/o any monthly charge (until such COVID-related policies ended this June...)? Or, obvious example: a country $48.9 trillion in debt still finds ways to fund the largest, most expensive military in the world.

If responsible maintenance was prioritized by the government, then it'd happen (much like effective, on-time, modern public transit).
 
I yearn for the day when global commerce is denominated in outdated MBTA tokens.

But seriously there are municipal and state budgets, the MBTA has been deferring maintenance apparently for decades, so it will take political will or additional revenue to fund maintenance as an ongoing concern. Until then, things decay and we pay a grim premium when something has to be critically rebuilt before it’s useful lifespan
 
chrisbrat said:
I know that's the commonly distributed narrative, but it's been demonstrated -- time and time again -- that when "the government" (be it local, state, fed, or combination) decides a project "NEEDS" funding, said funding is always found.

Definitly an apples vs. oranges example, but during COVID-related shutdowns etc., how did an arleady debt-laden government come up with the $ to send out multiple $1,500 (or whatever amount, depending on the iteration and your household situation) checks to everyone, or make it so that essentially *anyone* covered for full MassHealth coverage w/o any monthly charge (until such COVID-related policies ended this June...)? Or, obvious example: a country $48.9 trillion in debt still finds ways to fund the largest, most expensive military in the world.

If responsible maintenance was prioritized by the government, then it'd happen (much like effective, on-time, modern public transit).
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You're comparing the federal government to the MBTA. As you said: apples and oranges, so not comparable.
 
Sure but the MassHealth example was a state government instance. Point being: “government,” of whatever type or scale finds the funding for what is deemed important that administration (or that week, that day).
 
chrisbrat said:
I know that's the commonly distributed narrative, but it's been demonstrated -- time and time again -- that when "the government" (be it local, state, fed, or combination) decides a project "NEEDS" funding, said funding is always found.

Definitly an apples vs. oranges example, but during COVID-related shutdowns etc., how did an arleady debt-laden government come up with the $ to send out multiple $1,500 (or whatever amount, depending on the iteration and your household situation) checks to everyone, or make it so that essentially *anyone* covered for full MassHealth coverage w/o any monthly charge
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The US is the sole issuer of its own currency. The federal government can run infinite deficits because it can instruct the Treasury to print new money. States and localities don't have their own currencies. They have to cover expenses with either revenue or debt.

The free MassHealth premiums were mandated federally by the Families First Coronavirus Response Act.

chrisbrat said:
Or, obvious example: a country $48.9 trillion in debt still finds ways to fund the largest, most expensive military in the world.
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Massachusetts is not a country, let alone one with $48.9T in debt. Even the US government doesn't have that much debt.

If you want a city or a state to give more funding to something, you either have to grant them more revenue (usually taxes) or let them make budget cuts somewhere else.
 
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